It makes me think of the laws some states have about operating a motor vehicle on private property without a license.

 

I had a similar conversation with a friend of mine who works for the school board here (I did his CWFL class). Even though he rarely visits an actual school, he told me our school board Chief of Police (our school board employs their own police force) gave him 'permission' to keep his 642 in his pocket.

I told him that even though he may never be arrested for doing so, the Chief cannot give him 'permission' to do that any more than he can give him 'permission' to rob a bank. He leaves it locked in the console of his truck, now.

 

Is the key word here "OPEN CARRY"? but it's ok for conceal carry because back in the 80's I had a restaurant and I found a statue in my metro-dade police hand book that pretty much fell along the lines of being able to carry a weapon or firearm if you are responsible for the property such as the business owner or you lease the property and you can delegate an employee. Now I don't remember the statue word for word and I'm sure there might have been some changes since the 80's but thats how it was back then. If it has changed I wonder by how much and when they changed it? :dunno

 

Every thing changed in 1987, Teddy, when the state occupied the entire field of firearms and ammunition regulations (790.33), declaring all municipal ordinances concerning firearms/ammunition null and void.

The laws regarding this issue have changed little since then. One notable exception regards carry at airports. From 1987 to (I think) 1996, it was legal to carry in the non-sterile areas of airports.

In my friend's situation...you are certainly able to carry openly or concealed at your 'place of business', or your 'home', but schools are specifically exempted from this exception.

 

I don't think it would be legal in a county/state where open carry is illegal. In Palm Beach County it is not legal to discharge a firearm outside of a licensed range. If I was on private property and fired my gun I'd be breaking the law regardless of whether I had permission from the property owner. I suspect that would extend to open carry as well ?

 

What Rvrctyrngr said ..... As long as you are on Private Property, and do not discharge a firearm on the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street, or over the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street or over any occupied premises, you are legal within Florida Statutes which supercedes Palm Beach County Ordinances.

http://archive.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.15.html

790.15 Discharging firearm in public.

1) Except as provided in subsection (2) or subsection (3), any person who knowingly discharges a firearm in any public place or on the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street or whosoever knowingly discharges any firearm over the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street or over any occupied premises is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. This section does not apply to a person lawfully defending life or property or performing official duties requiring the discharge of a firearm or to a person discharging a firearm on public roads or properties expressly approved for hunting by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or Division of Forestry.

 

That is an illegal ordinance, Jimmy. Shooting on private property (as long as the projectile does not leave the property) is not illegal in Florida.

PBC is one of the most egrecious violators of the state preemption statute (790.33), but their comeuppance is on it's way with HB45/SB402.

 

How about noise ordinances?

 

I would agree with that as long as they aren't enforced selectvely. My neighbor getting home from the bar at 2 AM on his Harley is much more disturbing than my guns would be at the times that I would fire them.

 

Well, sure. There's that. As well as 'disturbing the peace', 'improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms' or 'CoC'. If the nice officer wishes to take you for a ride, you're going for a ride.

Point being, a municipal ordinance against discharging a weapon anywhere other than a range (as stated in Jimmy's post) is invalid under 790.33. HB45/SB402 will add some teeth to that statute, providing for penalties for tin pot dictators that think they can just ignore state law and do whatever they feel like doing.

 

Agreed, but I wouldn't count on fair play if a would-be tin horn was in charge.

 

Just to add a couple of more questions to the "Open Carry" issue.

First, let me say, I personally prefer Concealed Carry BUT as I understand it, I can open carry at “Home” or “Place of Business”.

I work in an office and I guess that with the owner’s permission, I could open carry in that office, is that correct? Only two people out of the 60 or more are aware that I conceal carry.

I also own several rental units (one is a small apartment building). I don’t live there but with the “Place of Business” provision, I guess I could open carry there too??? Also, would I be correct in assuming that all my tenants, because they LIVE there, would also be able to “Open Carry”.

Now, let’s really make it interesting and carry this one step further. If I LIVED in a condo OR owned a condo and rented it out, because it is “Home” or a “Place of Business” I should be able to open carry there too, right??? Now it really gets interesting. With Condo ownership, I own MY unit and an undivided interest in the common areas such as the lobby, elevator, pool, rec room, parking garage, etc. They are an appurtenance to (goes WITH) the property. I’m sure if I Open Carried down the elevator, through the lobby and out to the pool it would cause quite a stir with the other condo owners and the police would be called. BUT am I in the right OR will I suddenly have new living arrangements with free food and health care (and the rest I don’t want to think about). You can see my problem. :dunno

Thanks for your help.

 

I can address some of that.

You can legally open carry at your office work place with or without the owner's permission. He can legally fire you if he doesn't like it.

You can not open carry in the public areas of apartments and condos. You can, of course, within your own unit.

I don't know about the common areas of the apartment building that you own. My guess is that you can.

 

Case law does not generally support rental properties as your 'place of business' or your 'home'. If you own a property, but don't live there, it isn't your 'home'. Hopefully, Brian will see this and post some relevant decisions. He keeps that stuff handy...I don't.

When in doubt, don't.

 

I was the one who'd mentioned in the other thread that I had Open Carried on another person's private property before. Knowing that it should not be done, I will continue to carry concealed on that property going forward. Because of the rural nature of the property, out in Highlands County, I would carry a firearm loaded with shot shells as rattlesnakes and indigos are not uncommon in the area. I'll still carry it out there, but I'll be sure to cover it up next time.

Some of the Statutes are tricky like this. All these years I had not known. You are able to open carry on your property, in your home, but you may not openly carry on someone else's property even with their permission. What if you were hunting or sighting in a rifle on private property? How would that go down?

 

Hunting is covered under 790.25(3)(h) and sighting a rifle would be covered by 790.25(3)(j) or 790.25(3)(k)

 

I'm hunting; all the time. You never know...

 

Well, there you go. Hunting works as well. :rolf

Sorry to the OP. I started this one. Back on topic please. Don't want to let my mood get me into trouble today. :thumsup

 

I like that sleeping bag idea. Reminds me of when my Marine Corps drill instructors told us "You can't break the rules, but nothing says you can figure a way around it!

It's just a shame that all common sense in Law & Society have been lost.

 

I have a 5 year fishing license in my wallet, and a collapsible fishing-rod in my truck 24/7.

 

O.K. Rvrctyrngr

Just a brief thread hijack -

I've searched through several of my 'Latin Phrases' websites and can't find a definition of the portion of your signature that says -
Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est.
I haven't gone into any of Seneca's works to find it - guess I'm getting lazy in my old age!

What's it mean?

 

Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est.

A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands.

 

You are correct, sir.

 

:thumsup

 

Thank you gentlemen