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just because they serve food doesnt mean theyre primary income isnt from alcohol but it does disqualify smoking...dont confuse the 2...
Nope you can serve food and have smoking with no issues... it comes down to primary income.
 
Nope you can serve food and have smoking with no issues... it comes down to primary income.
Negative, as long as the sales are more in alcohol than food you can smoke.
and i'm a better man now because of it...thanks...i was under the impression if food was served the smoking went out the window...live and learn...ive got to get out more...
 
Originally Posted by Hrolfr
Nope you can serve food and have smoking with no issues... it comes down to primary income.
Originally Posted by gat0rbait
Negative, as long as the sales are more in alcohol than food you can smoke.
Originally Posted by bladenbullet
and i'm a better man now because of it...thanks...i was under the impression if food was served the smoking went out the window...live and learn...ive got to get out more...
OK, we are actually discussing two different topics that really have nothing to do with one another.

Standalone Bars that Allow Smoking: Must not generate more than 10% of their income from food. Plus other restrictions. See below.

Concealed Carry in a 'Bar': Has nothing, at all, to do with % income. I think the law is quite clear on this...

any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose
I'll re-write it to make the intent clear:
For purposes of this section 'Dispense' is defined as the act of pouring a quantity of alcoholic beverage from an alcohol manufacturer's container into individual glasses, cups, or other such small containers for consumption by an individual. 'Dispense' is also defined as the act of removing a manufacturer's single serving container from it's storage place and providing to an individual for consumption on the premises.

For purposes of this section a 'Bar' is defined as an establishment licensed, in accordance with applicable State law, to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.

No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any portion of a 'Bar' that is primarily devoted to dispensing alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.

So do not go into or stand at that portion of a Bar where they pour booze out of a bottle into a glass, or take individual bottles of beer out of the cooler.


Florida Statute 386.203(11)
"Stand-alone bar" means any licensed premises devoted during any time of operation predominantly or totally to serving alcoholic beverages, intoxicating beverages, or intoxicating liquors, or any combination thereof, for consumption on the licensed premises; in which the serving of food, if any, is merely incidental to the consumption of any such beverage; and the licensed premises is not located within, and does not share any common entryway or common indoor area with, any other enclosed indoor workplace, including any business for which the sale of food or any other product or service is more than an incidental source of gross revenue. A place of business constitutes a stand-alone bar in which the service of food is merely incidental in accordance with this subsection if the licensed premises derives no more than 10 percent of its gross revenue from the sale of food consumed on the licensed premises.
 
I seldom disagree with P. Buckley, but brboyer had me almost convinced on this one but something didn't sound rigth.

What caught my attentions was brboyer quoting "portion of the BAR" primaily devoted to. The F.S. says "any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose

Now, I'm still leaning toward Yes - Carry, but now I have to go back and think about this some more.

And as long as I am at it, what does "infringed" mean
I was just using 'Bar' to make the sentence easier to read.

If they serve booze/beer, I do not go into or stand at the portion of the establishment that is primarily devoted to pouring drinks. ie. the Bar - you know it's where they keep the bottles.
 
Hmmm

do you not think a jury will side with the guy that just saved his own or someone else's (or many others) lives from a madman shooting people in a club?

where is the crime in that?

if you weren't there with your gun, everyone in the club could be dead including yourself and your family.

Has no ruling ever been made on a case concerning someone who used their gun in a no-gun zone???


think if someone had been carrying at columbine, they may have been able to save a lot lives

punishing someone for preserving life is beyond me. it would be un-american. .

flame away
 
help me out here...cause this is moving in an interesting direction...

can one carry in a "bar as and establishment" as long as they do not go to the portion of the "bar" that actually serves the alcohol?...can one sit in a booth or at a table and chat with friends while drinking a soda and be legally carrying?...

does a wandering barmaid make the entire establishment devoted to serving alcoholic beverages?...and if so where is a waitress and barmaid line drawn?...

if a bar serves wings and potato skins (examples)...can one sit ata table and enjoy wings and a soda delivered by a barmaid/waitress and be legally carrying?...

if we're gonna discuss it lets get down to the nitty gritty...
 
I don't want to have to convince a jury (cause I doubt if I get one of MY peers) or even a LEO that I was just trying to do what was right and didn't quit understand the law as THEY interpret it on a warm and muggy night.
i just had to mention that the whole "warm and muggy night" thing just rings of a to kill a mockingbird influence for me...for some reason...:)
 
help me out here...cause this is moving in an interesting direction...

can one carry in a "bar as and establishment" as long as they do not go to the portion of the "bar" that actually serves dispenses the alcohol?...can one sit in a booth or at a table and chat with friends while drinking a soda [or a beer or a shot or whatever] and be legally carrying?...IMO and at least one ASA, yes

does a wandering barmaid make the entire establishment devoted to serving alcoholic beverages?...and if so where is a waitress and barmaid line drawn?...N/A

if a bar serves wings and potato skins (examples)...can one sit at a table and enjoy wings and a soda delivered by a barmaid/waitress and be legally carrying?... Not relevant

if we're gonna discuss it lets get down to the nitty gritty...
Lots of opinions, here..but the law clearly says "Dispense" not "Serve"..
 
Well then it seems we are in agreement that you can carry in a stand alone bar (building) as long as we are not in the area where the dispensing occurs.....
Scenario: You pull up to the local biker bar, they serve food, but very little and only on special event days. You decide to quench your thirst with whatever beverage you choose (don't flame me about ETOH and carrying) CAN YOU SIT AT A TABLE, INSIDE THE ESTABLISHMENT, GET SERVED BY A SERVER WHILE CARRYING????


So then to further complicate the issue, in another thread, we debated the meaning of "place of business" and the ability of an employee (as opposed to the owner) to carry in the "dispensing" area (assuming the employer agrees). The opinion of at least one of the attorneys here is that as long as you can prove employment (pay stub, W-2 Etc.) you "should" be OK
 
Well then it seems we are in agreement that you can carry in a stand alone bar (building) as long as we are not in the area where the dispensing occurs.....
Scenario: You pull up to the local biker bar, they serve food, but very little and only on special event days. You decide to quench your thirst with whatever beverage you choose (don't flame me about ETOH and carrying) CAN YOU SIT AT A TABLE, INSIDE THE ESTABLISHMENT, GET SERVED BY A SERVER WHILE CARRYING????


So then to further complicate the issue, in another thread, we debated the meaning of "place of business" and the ability of an employee (as opposed to the owner) to carry in the "dispensing" area (assuming the employer agrees). The opinion of at least one of the attorneys here is that as long as you can prove employment (pay stub, W-2 Etc.) you "should" be OK
Correct, however permission is not an element than needs to be considered to be lawful - you can be fired if they do not like it, but it's lawful.
 
Just for giggles, I sent the following to the Sarasota County Sheriff and Earl Moreland (State Attorney for the area):

Sir/Madam:
I am a staff member of the online forum Floridaconcealedcarry.com We have had several discussions about FS 790.06(12), specifically the section:

any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;

Our membership is divided on the legislature's intent, and I am soliciting the opinions of Sheriff's and State Attorney's Offices statewide. The specific use of "dispense" in lieu of "serve" is in question. Lacking case law, we are asking your office's position as to arrest and/or prosecution. None of our membership wishes to be the test case.

Can an armed CWFL holder:
*Sit in the bar "section" of an establishment licensed to dispense alcohol for consumption on the premises as long as they are not AT the bar?
*Pass through the bar area to enter another part of the establishment (i.e.restrooms)?
*Enter any portion of a "stand alone bar" such as a 4COP? (again without being actually at the bar itself)
*Work as an employee (with the management's permission) behind the bar?​
Thank you in advance for your time,
XXXXXXXX
Perhaps others can solicit the same from their local authorities. I'll post any replies I might get
 
Well then it seems we are in agreement that you can carry in a stand alone bar (building) as long as we are not in the area where the dispensing occurs.....
Scenario: You pull up to the local biker bar, they serve food, but very little and only on special event days. You decide to quench your thirst with whatever beverage you choose (don't flame me about ETOH and carrying) CAN YOU SIT AT A TABLE, INSIDE THE ESTABLISHMENT, GET SERVED BY A SERVER WHILE CARRYING????​


So then to further complicate the issue, in another thread, we debated the meaning of "place of business" and the ability of an employee (as opposed to the owner) to carry in the "dispensing" area (assuming the employer agrees). The opinion of at least one of the attorneys here is that as long as you can prove employment (pay stub, W-2 Etc.) you "should" be OK
Now that would be a first. :D
 
Had a late lunch today with Teter09, Airwolf84 and Jim45...walked through the bar area several times...even had a beer with my lunch...the earth did not explode, nor was I transported back in time to be eaten by velociraptors.
 
Had a late lunch today with Teter09, Airwolf84 and Jim45...walked through the bar area several times...even had a beer with my lunch...the earth did not explode, nor was I transported back in time to be eaten by velociraptors.
Image


Image


Alright, which one of you jokers walked through the bar with a gun? :rolf
 
So I am reading this and am wondering, what is the final answer about carrying in the west palm beach improv, yes or no?
Seems as if another member has carried into the Improv in Tampa... (not saying he was right or wrong)

"I" see it the same as going to a restaurant with a bar. Just don't go to the bar.

That's how "i" see it, but i have no legal points to offer.
 
Any update CapnGeo?

Interested to hear if the Sarasota Sheriff's Office or attorney's office responded.

While reading through this, I have been thinking long and hard about my own interpretation of Comedy Club as bar. I've been the WPB Improv, and the physical setup is such that, to enter the premises and arrive at your destined seat in the I'll call it "auditorium" you must enter a very long somewhat narrow room best described as the Ticket center. Then, through that door at the far end of the room towards the left, you enter another Room/Area that is huge and is mostly walking area with the "bar" portion of the club with some seating along the wall to the right. It is separated from a huuuuuge "auditorium" broken up into what I'd class as 2 "rooms" by a "barrier" which is not quite hip-high and can't truly be called a wall.

Thus, the place where seating and viewing the show on stage is essentially the same "room" as the "bar", although separated by quite a distance and by a not-a-wall.

Here's my first question. Since Comedy Clubs, in virtually any city, by my experience, charge for the first 2 alcoholic beverages in their "cover charge 'for the show'", whether or not you actually choose to consume that alcohol, wouldn't every single person sitting in the "auditorium" portion of that establishment therefore qualify as a "bar patron" and not necessarily fall under "restaurant patron" or "entertainment only patron"? Does that distinction have any bearing whatsoever on the conversation?

Second question: Is the distinction between "dispense" and "serve" really a distinction? If I mentally apply the term to a medical establishment rather than one that serves alcohol, in my own mind it seems that The Doctor's Office or "The Hospital" would in their entirety define a place that dispenses medical supplies/services, and would not reasonably be limited to only that closet within the real estate occupied by the hospital or the doctor's office where those medical supplies get stored or removed from their boxes. The fact that a person carries supplies from that closet to the outer room to "distribute" or "serve" them to the populace doesn't somehow make that second room less a part of the medical establishment. No idea how this thinking relates, it just seems like trying to establish what portion of "bar" isn't a "bar" a mighty blurry exercise.

Third question: It appears to me the statute is attempting to make concealed carry something you can't do where you'd go to get drunk, while permitting you to carry in places where alcohol happens to be served. The distinction problem seems to be, what happens if you go to an Applebees to have dinner in the 'restaurant', but to gain access to lavatory you must walk through the 'bar'? Seems to me all the major chains design their restaurants where the bar portion is a major feature, not some hidden alter-ego room accessible by a different door and totally separate from the restaurant and bathrooms. Here's the question: there's a local place called Swampgrass Willie's that is perhaps best described as a "bar" - it is a place that serves drinks, serves alcohol, provides gaming options (video poker, poker nights, pool tables, air hockey) and at least 3 nights a week, live entertainment. They also serve food. Food is not their primary business, not by a long shot. However, there are plenty of tables set back from the bar where folks go to eat, talk, play cards. Does the table area of this establishment qualify for legal concealed carry?

Question 4: Another place not far from me is Howley's, which has recently been reviewed and blogged about quite a bit for instituting special micro-brew nights. It's a diner, "primarily", but alcohol is not served in one area specifically as opposed to others. Does the fact that it is now touting itself as a premier beer and wine lover locale make it a "bar" now and therefore not a legal place for folks to carry?
 
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