[Timbal]

Good evening, everyone.

So this morning I had a semi-funny thing happen to me. Due to the policies of my workplace, I'm not armed (With a firearm, anyway) when I'm in the office. I usually field strip my Sigma, lock up the slide and the poly frame separately in my vehicle, and I take my magazines with me. My thinking is that if someone breaks into my car, they really have to work to reassemble the firearm, and even then they won't be able to immediately use it effectively without the magazine.

In any case, I have a book bag/back pack that held my company laptop and other random stuff in it, and on the sides you have two bellow pockets for water bottles and the like. I was in a bit of a hurry, so I slipped both magazines into one of those pockets, and made my way upstairs.

Now, I've done this routine quite a few times, and never had an issue. However, I was having a meeting with one of the supervisors today, and I guess I must have tipped my bag with the back of the chair juuuuuuust so, and lo and behold, I heard a THUNK!

At first I thought it was a book that I usually keep on my desk that is always falling down, but from the bulging eyes that she had, I knew it had to be one of my magazines.

She asked, "Is that... a gun clip?" (Her exact words)

Me, retrieving the magazine, "Yep."

Her: "...And is it, loaded? Oh, it is!" (Still a disbelieving look on her face. Then she said, "Uhm, I don't think you're allowed..."

Me: "I checked the signs downstairs, and the employee manual, there don't allow firearms or weapons on the premises. A magazine (I'm afraid I stressed the correct word in a school-teacher voice :laughing) is not either."

Her: "Why do you have one?"

I knew she meant a firearm.

Me: "Because I grew up in NYC, and know it can get crazy, because I feel a bit naked without one since leaving the Army, and because I can, thanks to the Constitution."

Her: "Well, so is my husband (Army vet), but...."

Me: "Yes, I'm just being prepared."

Then I knew it might go back and forth for a bit, but my awesome co-worker (A Marine scout/sniper that served in Desert Storm) stepped in and said: "He also shoots competitively."

Her: "Oh!" And apparently looked relieved at that. Not sure why that is okay and merely having one to protect myself is not.

Me (In my head): "Nice! Competitively my behind! :rolf"

And then the convo wandered off elsewhere.

Later on, after the supervisor left, I asked my co-worker, "That competitive thing was a smoke screen, right?"

He laughed and said heck yeah. :drinks

So, that story out of the way, I thought about a few things:

• Secure your magazines where the sheep can't see 'em!
• I'm following the letter of the "law" here at work, yes?
• Is there a law on the books in FL that states that a magazine is part of a firearm and must therefore be considered as such?

The reason I ask that last one is that because I was told that even if a firearm is field stripped, each component is still considered to be a firearm that is ready to rock, and didn't know if that extended to the magazines as well.

Sorry for the newb-ish type question, I just don't think this scenario had come up before.

Thanks all in advance! :thumsup

 

[Steve48]

I don't think that Florida law says anything about magazines. I don't think that's the issue here in any case. Florida law won't prohibit your having the firearm in your work place if you have a CC license, but it won't protect you from your employer's wrath if it's prohibited by company policy. Likewise, if your company prohibits ammunition in the work place, you could be in trouble- not with the state, with your employer.

 

[Glock23-4-Me]

My guess is that this will not be the end of your story. I think she will make a big deal out of it, maybe with HR if you have one. You are legal as previously posted but people like that probably wont let it lye. good luck

 

[Timbal]

Thanks for the quick reply!

I *did* check the employee handbook before everything, and it never specifically stated anything about ammo or magazines, which is why I wanted opinions.

In either case, I don't think she'll make any kind of fuss, being as we've worked together in the past and she's okay.

That being said, Florida is a right-to-work state, so nothing isn't guaranteed ever. *Sigh*

 

[Steve48]

I *did* check the employee handbook before everything, and it never specifically stated anything about ammo or magazines, which is why I wanted opinions.

Does it say anything about explosives?

 

[Timbal]

Good point, Steve. This is what is says verbatim, with the company name removed:

--

COMPANY_NAME strictly prohibits violence, threats of violence, and/or any other form of physical or verbal intimidation by anyone on our premises. All employees share responsibility for assuring that the workplace is free from violence and intimidation.

Immediately contact your supervisor or Human Resources if you feel you have been the target of this kind of behavior or you have witnessed or suspect it.

Firearms and other weapons in the workplace are strictly prohibited. Employees must never carry firearms or other weapons while involved in any COMPANY_NAME activity or in COMPANY_NAME vehicles. Loaded or unloaded firearms are strictly prohibited on any COMPANY_NAME property, including parking lots and garages. State or local laws will prevail in those locations where it differs from Company policy.

Managers who receive reports should immediately notify Human Resources or Corporate Security.

--

So technically, I'm okay, but just in case, I think I'll start leaving the magazines in yet another car safe. *Sigh* :thumbsdwn

 

[FloridaSon]

parking lots and garages.

Uh, do you park in the company lot? that might be an issue should someone at your workplace pursue it.

 

[Timbal]

Yes, FloridaSon, but the last line of the 2nd to last paragraph states:

"State or local laws will prevail in those locations where it differs from Company policy."

Since it's legal to leave my firearm locked in the vehicle on company grounds, I'm covered there. A big thanks to the Florida's Preservation and Protection of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Motor Vehicles Act of 2008 (the "Guns At Work Law")!

 

[brownie]

THE legal definition of a firearm is the receiver. B A T F considers the receiver, and only the receiver to be the firearm. The slide, barrel, mag, bullets, springs, pins and anything else that helps that receiver fire a shot is not a firearm.

I can't send a receiver through the mail to another person not an ffl. I can send everything but the receiver to anyone I want anywhere in the US, including magazines and bullets.

Brownie

 

[Steve48]

Florida law agrees. However, they also define "any destructive device" as a "firearm". Go figure. Fortunately, I don't think anyone would consider a magazine, even loaded, a destructive device.

 

[Timbal]

Brownie, thanks so very much for your input, sir, that was very concise and on point! :thumsup

Steve, true, I didn't think of that aspect, but just to keep my job from being unbearable if they decide to get obnoxious, I guess I'll have to get another car safe for the magazines. On the plus side, I can also keep extra ammo in there too.

Assuming I can find decently priced 9MM ammo nowadays. :rolf

 

[brownie]

Florida law agrees. However, they also define "any destructive device" as a "firearm". Go figure. Fortunately, I don't think anyone would consider a magazine, even loaded, a destructive device.

I could show you several ways to make a loaded mag into multiple destructive devices with the bullets in it using your shoes or boots and the laces within 10 minutes.

Timbal,

More than welcome sir.

Brownie

 

[Timbal]

LOL, Brownie, I supposed that's in the "after school program" of your Threat Focused class? :rolf

 

[brownie]

LOL, Brownie, I supposed that's in the "after school program" of your Threat Focused class? :rolf

I suppose you could consider it extra curricular activities, ah, ah I mean festivities

Brownie

 

[Steve48]

I could show you several ways to make a loaded mag into multiple destructive devices with the bullets in it using your shoes or boots and the laces within 10 minutes.

Sure, but expect that you could do that even if I left the bullets out!

 

[deadeyedick]

If you are questioned about this by your superiors/HR, my advice would be to tell them that you store your firearm in your locked vehicle, in compliance with state law and company policy, and that, as a responsible gun owner, you only carry the magazine with you so that in the unlikely event that your weapon is stolen from your vehicle, it will not be immediately operable by the thief.

 

[brownie]

If you are questioned about this by your superiors/HR, my advice would be to tell them that you store your firearm in your locked vehicle, in compliance with state law and company policy, and that, as a responsible gun owner, you only carry the magazine with you so that in the unlikely event that your weapon is stolen from your vehicle, it will not be immediately operable by the thief.

Ya, you wouldn't want someone breaking into the vehicle, finding a loaded gun and becoming an active shooter at that facility with your firearm right? :thumsup


Brownie

 

[Timbal]

Ya, you wouldn't want someone breaking into the vehicle, finding a loaded gun and becoming an active shooter at that facility with your firearm right? :thumsup


Brownie

Exactly on target, Deadeyedick and Brownie. That's the key, I'm trying to be a responsible citizen and stay safe with some forethought, planning, and follow-through.

If directly confronted, I think I'd plead the 5th, because according to 790.251, paragraph (e):

(b) No public or private employer may violate the privacy rights of a customer, employee, or invitee by verbal or written inquiry regarding the presence of a firearm inside or locked to a private motor vehicle in a parking lot or by an actual search of a private motor vehicle in a parking lot to ascertain the presence of a firearm within the vehicle. Further, no public or private employer may take any action against a customer, employee, or invitee based upon verbal or written statements of any party concerning possession of a firearm stored inside a private motor vehicle in a parking lot for lawful purposes. A search of a private motor vehicle in the parking lot of a public or private employer to ascertain the presence of a firearm within the vehicle may only be conducted by on-duty law enforcement personnel, based upon due process and must comply with constitutional protections.

If such a thing were to happen, I'd simply do the following:

• Pull out my cell phone, initiate the video record feature.
• Calmly ask that they repeat the question.
• Once repeated, I'd state that according to the statues of the State of Florida, their request is illegal, and if they wished to continue to ask this question and require an answer from me.
• If so, calmly refuse, and ask to speak to an HR representative to advise them that one of their employees is actively breaking the law and that I *will* proceed with legal action if this continues.
• If they continue, I follow through and advise them of such.

However, I seriously doubt it'd come to that point. To get to that final point on the list would require tremendous amounts of stupidity on their part, but they've been known to do that in the past.

 

[ibm_db2]

That being said, Florida is a right-to-work state, so nothing isn't guaranteed ever. *Sigh*

That is so true, your boss can fire you for no reason , as none is required in "right to work states" as you mention.

 

[OrlandoDriver]

I believe if a copy of this policy got copied and sent to the State Attorney I'm sure the State Attorney can make them change that wording.