[airhead]

Is the 'bar' part of the restraunt, that part right up next to the bar?

Many restraunts have a seating area separate from the regular seating, but not 'at the bar' seating, but in the bar area.
I'm thinking like Chilies (if you sit 'bar-side' your chips are free, but you gotta pay over in 'regular'), Oive Garden and a few others. They have regular seating, bar seating and at the bar seating.

Regular is OK.
At the bar (feet on the brass rail) is a no-no.
What about those tables in the area of the bar?

 

[Speve]

its my understanding that pretty much in a restuarant, as long as you are not sitting directly at the bar or standing right next to it, you are ok

 

[MiklColt45]

In Chili's, the bar is clearly a separate room, walled off from the restaurant portion. In my opinion, there is no question that that is off-limits per FL law.
Many other restaurants are similarly walled off, or otherwise delineated by some physical barrier of some sort.

I will not be the test case.

 

[OLDJEEP813]

So you and your wife are in a restraunt with a bar. Your sitting in the dining area with your back against the wall to the bar. Someone comes in the front with a gun your best place for cover/safety is moving into the bar behind the wall and heading for the side exit. As you guide your wife into the bar the BG see's you and moves in your direction. Now you are in the bar area and you have to defend yourself............ I'm not as concerned about where I sit in a restruant as I am where am I gonna be when it hits the fan.

 

[brownie]

So you and your wife are in a restraunt with a bar. Your sitting in the dining area with your back against the wall to the bar. Someone comes in the front with a gun your best place for cover/safety is moving into the bar behind the wall and heading for the side exit. As you guide your wife into the bar the BG see's you and moves in your direction. Now you are in the bar area and you have to defend yourself............ I'm not as concerned about where I sit in a restruant as I am where am I gonna be when it hits the fan.

In the situation you just described, why worry about anything, you were legal and moved to the safest area trying to avoid danger. When it finally broke out, your present position isn't going to matter.

Same scenario, but you are moving out of the restaurant and passing the bar to exit. You need to defend yourself there immediately, you do, you survive and the cops arrive, take your statement [ you were in the restaurant having dinner, not at the bar ] and so there's no problem, you were legal as you were moving through an area, not sitting in a restricted area to begin with.

I think too many people are worrying too much about the "Bar" exclusion here. Enjoy your meal, stay safe, and shoot the SOB wherever you are at when you have to.

Brownie

 

[FloridaSon]

790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.

(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into ... any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose

The "any portion" followed by "which portion" is absolutely unclear and confusing.:aarg

 

[brownie]

I don't understand this confusion on what part of the establishment is a restaurant and which part is exclusively used to serve alcohol.

If you can't determine which is the bar area and which is the restaurant area, don't carry into the establishment. Some places are bars, some are restaurants others are restaurants with a bar area. It's seems very clear what the statutes intent is here.

The bolded is very clear in it's in wording:

which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose

The restaurant section is primarily devoted to serving food, the bar area is primarily devoted to serving alcohol. What's so hard to understand about that?

Brownie

 

[Speve]

if you cant figure out whether you're sitting in the bar portion or not, you probably shouldnt be carrying

just my two pennies

 

[FloridaSon]

Here's your two pennies back. It is the wording I have an issue with. None of us on this thread speak like that is written.

You will have to take my word when I say I can figure out whether I am sitting in the bar or not. I can get just as many drinks at a table as I can at the bar.

I would even guess that the entire restaurant is licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises. So what is the intent? Is is just a technical definition?

I agree that it should be (should be) OK outside the bar or bar area, but admit it , the wording sucks.

 

[brownie]

Here's your two pennies back. It is the wording I have an issue with. None of us on this thread speak like that is written.

You will have to take my word when I say I can figure out whether I am sitting in the bar or not. I can get just as many drinks at a table as I can at the bar.

I would even guess that the entire restaurant is licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises. So what is the intent? Is is just a technical definition?

I agree that it should be (should be) OK outside the bar or bar area, but admit it , the wording sucks.

FloridaSon,

I would even guess that the entire restaurant is licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.

Of course the restaurant can serve alcohol anywhere on the premises, that's what their alcoholic beverage license allows them to do. So what------ the restaurant is primarilyserving food, not dispensing alcohol. The bar is primarily dispensing alcohol, not food.

The wording is very clear, "Primarily devoted". The definition of "primary" is:

–adverb
1. essentially; mostly; chiefly; principally:

The intent and wording is very clear

Whether you can drink all night in the restaurant portion is irrelevant, it's primary function is to serve food, not alcohol.

Brownie

 

[FloridaSon]

I'm understanding it better. Should have studied my school grammar more. Thanks.

 

[Speve]

you should also get gutmatcher's book if you're having trouble with the statutes wording

 

[capngeo]

Honestly I don't see the problem.....
First of all unless you are being careless, nobody will know you are carrying when you walk through the bar to get to the Men's.

Second (although I can't find it) There is case law where the TYPE of license the establishment holds goes a long way to defining "Bar"... Most restaurants have a requirement that 51% of their revenue comes from the sale of food v. alcohol (SRX License). In THOSE establishments the "primarily devoted" was the bar itself (even if food is served there). If the tables adjacent to the bar are PRIMARILY for the consumption of a meal, you're good to go.... If they are the small "cocktail" type you are not.

If the establishment has no such 51/49% provision in their license, and can serve alcohol irrespective of food sales pretty much the whole place is off limits. I'm sure a guy like Smoking357 would carry in the back door and go to the men's room and say he was never in the "bar" with his imaginary CWL that he never received.

In any event, I'm not a lawyer, don't take my advise! Personally I don't go sit in the bar "area" when I'm armed... but if I have to walk through to pee, I don't give it a second thought

 

[Steve48]

Here's your two pennies back. It is the wording I have an issue with. None of us on this thread speak like that is written.

Yes, it is written in lawyer speak. Normal people would say "any part of the portion of the establishment devoted to serving alcohol", which simplifies further to "any part of the bar area".

 

[MiklColt45]

Honestly I don't see the problem.....
First of all unless you are being careless, nobody will know you are carrying when you walk through the bar to get to the Men's.

Second (although I can't find it) There is case law where the TYPE of license the establishment holds goes a long way to defining "Bar"... Most restaurants have a requirement that 51% of their revenue comes from the sale of food v. alcohol (SRX License). In THOSE establishments the "primarily devoted" was the bar itself (even if food is served there). If the tables adjacent to the bar are PRIMARILY for the consumption of a meal, you're good to go.... If they are the small "cocktail" type you are not.

If the establishment has no such 51/49% provision in their license, and can serve alcohol irrespective of food sales pretty much the whole place is off limits. I'm sure a guy like Smoking357 would carry in the back door and go to the men's room and say he was never in the "bar" with his imaginary CWL that he never received.

In any event, I'm not a lawyer, don't take my advise! Personally I don't go sit in the bar "area" when I'm armed... but if I have to walk through to pee, I don't give it a second thought

Capn,

Not trying to be argumentative. I just don't understand. I have never heard the 51/49 thing in FL from anyone who has read the statutes, read Gutmacher's book, etc.

In my understanding (and I am not a lawyer either), if it is a restaurant, it doesn't matter. You are good to go until you walk into, sit in, lie down in, whatever, the bar area. If it is a bar, even tho' they serve food, you are not good to go. Now, the legislature in their far-less-than-infinite wisdom has not defined what's a bar and what's not. Hence the problem.

Anyway, if there is case law, I would love to see it. It may help this be a little clearer than the legal mud our wise and glorious leaders have given us.

 

[brownie]

790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.

(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into ... any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose

If it is a bar, even tho' they serve food, you are not good to go.

The Primarily devoted portion of the statute reflect the laws intent that if it is a bar, it's primary devotion is to alcohol. Most bars don't have a restaurant area.

Brownie

 

[Glock23-4-Me]

I'm sure a guy like Smoking357 would carry in the back door and go to the men's room and say he was never in the "bar" with his imaginary CWL that he never received.

oh my god Capngeo, I am LMAO and I almost fell out of my chair. Its that default license thing again.

 

[FloridaSon]

you should also get gutmatcher's book if you're having trouble with the statutes wording

Got it, read it

 

[Wardey]

The way I understand, it's the "bar" section where clearly only drinks are served. If you are at Chili's and sitting at a table in the bar area having food, you are ok. Just don't belly up to the bar and order a beer. Dave

 

[MiklColt45]

The way I understand, it's the "bar" section where clearly only drinks are served. If you are at Chili's and sitting at a table in the bar area having food, you are ok. Just don't belly up to the bar and order a beer. Dave

Wardey,

I am not trying to flame you. But, I think you stand a really good chance of getting arrested and being the test case if you are discovered with a gun on you, license or not.

The primary purpose of the bar area, including the tables is to serve alcohol. Whether or not you add food doesn't matter.

For me, I will NOT sit at those tables, I will NOT walk through that area, and I will NOT go in to see the score on the game. I would not recommend that anyone else do so either while armed.

JMO. YMMV.