[brownie]

I've been shooting the Remington VTR in 204 Ruger lately with a buddy of mine developing custom loads for it. We've hit upon a good combination that sends a 40 grain bullet out the barrel at 3880 feet per second and is extremely accurate.

Today while running some of those loads, I was able to shoot a steel ram at 200 yds and small pig at 300 yds . The pig plate had a 3/8" hole drilled into it in the event they would hang it from wire [ it's on a post presently ]. This load was producing the same bullet strike repeatedly [ basically putting bullets hits on top of bullets hits ].

I decided to try to thread the needle and attempt to put some bullets through the 3/8" hole to challenge myself further. I was able to thread 4 shots through the 3/8" hole at 300 yrds bench rested with another just splattering the edge of the hole as it passed through for 5 rds total.

I'm thinking this 204Ruger and VTR Remington could be pressed into service in a pinch as a sniper rifle against human threats. It's not got a lot of punch at 300, but it's so accurate that a shot to the eye socket or ear would be an easy hit to make.

Perhaps put a round in a BG's mouth wouldn't be out of the question. I don't think anyone taking a 40 grain bullet still traveling over 3000 feet per second at 300 yds into one of these areas is going to be a viable threat very long.

Had never thought to use a varmint gun in such a manner but it's an interesting concept. Low recoil, easy follow on shots and the wind isn't much of a problem to 300 yds due to the flight time even at 300 yds which is only about .25 seconds.

I'm really enjoying shooting this little tack driver.

 

[LoneWolf]

Up to 100 yards my custom 10/22 can do some serious damage to a human being if need be. I would say anything that moves at at least 1,200 fps will hurt you. A lot of people don't give the 22 LR enough respect, but I certainly think is a deadly round up to 100 yards. As you can see below it penetrated the steel case below through and through like butter. Imagine what it can do to bones.

100 yard one shot:

 

[patrickhenry1776]

Please forgive my ignorance but what is a steel ram and small pig? Given the fact that small pig followed steel ram I assumed it is not just a pig which was small.

 

[brownie]

patrickhenry1776,

My buddies and I shoot on the high power range where they have permanent havy guage steel plates on posts at 200, 300, 400, and 500 yrds out. The 200 yd steel is in the shape of a Ram, the 300 plates are in the shape of a pig, the 400 yd steel is shaped like a turkey and 500 yd plates are back to shaped like pigs.

They make good targets in the form of animals instead of just chunks of square steel to shoot at.

 

[patrickhenry1776]

Well that is pretty straight foreward. To be honest my mind was going down the pig iron train of though but for the life of me I could not get steel ram.

Have you ever thought of posting a you tube video of your action on the long range?

 

[Hodawg]

From a former Sheriff's Department Sniper/Observer's point of view, I thoroughly agree that a lightweight round such as the 40 gr. .204 at those speeds can be a very effective sniper round under the right circumstances. However, under most Florida scenario's I wouldn't pick this round or caliber. The lighter projectiles at high speeds, even including the 10-22 at 1,200 fps will deflect significantly when encountering even the slightest obstacle, such as a twig or a small branch. Think about it. How many shots past 100 meters do we see in Florida. Not counting some of the wide open spaces down near the Glades, I know that up here in the Panhandle you'd be hard pressed to find a 100 meter clear lane of fire anywhere except maybe at a groomed firing range. Most of the guys that I know who regularly hunt deer or hawgs zero their rifles at 75 meters. I think that certainly the rifle/caliber/load that you have listed has its place out West, but I doubt its usefulness in this neck of the woods. For a sniper rifle in this area, I personally would stick with what worked well as a Law Enforcement sniper, the good ol' 158 gr. .308 BTHP. Just my .02 worth.

Beers y'all,
Ken

 

[brownie]

From a former Sheriff's Department Sniper/Observer's point of view, I thoroughly agree that a lightweight round such as the 40 gr. .204 at those speeds can be a very effective sniper round under the right circumstances. However, under most Florida scenario's I wouldn't pick this round or caliber. The lighter projectiles at high speeds, even including the 10-22 at 1,200 fps will deflect significantly when encountering even the slightest obstacle, such as a twig or a small branch. Think about it. How many shots past 100 meters do we see in Florida. Not counting some of the wide open spaces down near the Glades, I know that up here in the Panhandle you'd be hard pressed to find a 100 meter clear lane of fire anywhere except maybe at a groomed firing range. Most of the guys that I know who regularly hunt deer or hawgs zero their rifles at 75 meters. I think that certainly the rifle/caliber/load that you have listed has its place out West, but I doubt its usefulness in this neck of the woods. For a sniper rifle in this area, I personally would stick with what worked well as a Law Enforcement sniper, the good ol' 158 gr. .308 BTHP. Just my .02 worth.

Beers y'all,
Ken

I agree, the 168 grain BTJHP sniper loading in 308 is devastatingly effective with less deflection due to the added mass/weight. As to distances, agreed again, the average distance for an LE sniper in the US was 77 yrds when I went through HK Counter-sniper in 94 [ it may have changed some but not likely much ].

This 204Ruger will ruin your day at under 100 yrds. It takes rabbits and throws them in three chunks up to 10 feet in the air. As a sniper, I wouldn't be taking any shot where something could be in the line of the bullets path anyway.

 

[Hodawg]

As to distances, agreed again, the average distance for an LE sniper in the US was 77 yrds when I went through HK Counter-sniper in 94 [ it may have changed some but not likely much ].

This 204Ruger will ruin your day at under 100 yrds. It takes rabbits and throws them in three chunks up to 10 feet in the air. As a sniper, I wouldn't be taking any shot where something could be in the line of the bullets path anyway.

Nope, Brownie, I don't think it has changed that much. You and I probably went through Sniper/Observer/Counter-Sniper school within a year or so of each other, and those ranges were the norm.

One thing that I didn't notice in the original post was whether you were shooting iron sights or optics.

As a sniper, I wouldn't be taking any shot where something could be in the line of the bullets path anyway.

I totally agree with that concept. However, optics sighted in for 300 meters + will tend to blur out obstacles such as small branches, twigs, and even leaves that are very close (25 to 50 meters or so), and you could easily encounter a deflection that you wouldn't even see through the scope.

Open sights.......no problem. Optical sights...........could be a serious deflection.

I wish I lived out in your neck of the woods where I could make longer shots. I love long range varmit shots.

Beers Bro',
Ken

 

[T.S.]

To give some of those who are new to rifle calibers an idea what is being discussed here.
Below is a comparison of some of the popular calibers of rifle ammunition.

from left to right: .50 BMG (.50 Cal.), 300 win mag, .308 Winchester (M-14), 7.62x39mm (AK-47), 5.56x45mm NATO (M-16), .22LR​

 

[brownie]

Nope, Brownie, I don't think it has changed that much. You and I probably went through Sniper/Observer/Counter-Sniper school within a year or so of each other, and those ranges were the norm.

One thing that I didn't notice in the original post was whether you were shooting iron sights or optics.

As a sniper, I wouldn't be taking any shot where something could be in the line of the bullets path anyway.

I totally agree with that concept. However, optics sighted in for 300 meters + will tend to blur out obstacles such as small branches, twigs, and even leaves that are very close (25 to 50 meters or so), and you could easily encounter a deflection that you wouldn't even see through the scope.

Open sights.......no problem. Optical sights...........could be a serious deflection.

I wish I lived out in your neck of the woods where I could make longer shots. I love long range varmit shots.

Beers Bro',
Ken

A 6x24 variable power mildot with 1/4 MOA turret settings sits on the rifle. I shoot everything on 20x with that rifle to avoid the problems associated with change in magnification and the mils adjustments.

Sighted for 200 yds dead on, it's .75" high at 100, 1 mil at 300 and 3.5 mils at 400 yrds. It really starts to drop after 300 but out to that 300 mark, even the wind doesn't play with the load much, it's moving so fast.

You're right on, with the higher magnifications you'll lose the near small stuff.

Welcome to come out here and shoot some highpower with me anytime you'd like sir We can find places to shoot 800-1800 yrds around here depending on your wants within an hour from the house and nobody is around :thumsup

 

[brownie]

TS,

Nice reference photo. The 204Ruger is smaller than the 5.56x45mm NATO round and will put all 5 shots inside that green seal hidden behind the 5.56x45 shell in the photo at 300 yrds.

 

[Mac45]

Brownie,

You and Hodawg pretty well covered the pros and cons of light weight rounds for sniping. The only thing that I would add is that your round/rifle combination might make a very good special purpose short range anti-personnel weapon system. Unfortunately, a rifleman can only hump so much gear and he needs a weapon system that is as flexible as possible. Heavier rounds are usually more versatile.

That sounds like a great little prairie dog popper, though.

 

[SGB]

5.56 this one likes Black Hills 68gr match

 

[T.S.]

5.56 this one likes Black Hills 68gr match

Fine looking rifle SGB ... :thumsup

 

[Old Guy]

Brownie,

You and Hodawg pretty well covered the pros and cons of light weight rounds for sniping. The only thing that I would add is that your round/rifle combination might make a very good special purpose short range anti-personnel weapon system. Unfortunately, a rifleman can only hump so much gear and he needs a weapon system that is as flexible as possible. Heavier rounds are usually more versatile.

That sounds like a great little prairie dog popper, though.

Or a Zombie rifle maybe??

 

[brownie]

Brownie,

You and Hodawg pretty well covered the pros and cons of light weight rounds for sniping. The only thing that I would add is that your round/rifle combination might make a very good special purpose short range anti-personnel weapon system. Unfortunately, a rifleman can only hump so much gear and he needs a weapon system that is as flexible as possible. Heavier rounds are usually more versatile.

That sounds like a great little prairie dog popper, though.

Thanks Mac, it surely is a dog popper out to 300, then it really starts to drop off. It gets to 300 in about .22 seconds. Screaming along out the barrel at 3900-4000 depending on the load.

Certainly not the most flexible cartridge for sniping. I had the idea of using it like that in a pinch after seeing how damned accurate and fast it gets to 250-300 yds but of course my 308 long range rifles would be my first choice.

SGB,

Very nice :drinks