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I cut myself at #7 ;)
That said, I'm not sure where Bill Jordan would place on that rubric.



Well, if I did a CDW4ME carry rubric it might level something like this (approximate):
Novice: Doesn't consistently carry when they otherwise could
Apprentice: Consistently carries but carries "less" where they perceive low threat.
Proficient: Consistently carries handgun they would prefer in hand to defend themself - everywhere.
Distinguished: Consistently carries preferred handgun and spare mag or "backup" - everywhere.

On my rubric someone that considers them self an enlightened pistolero with competency beyond advanced is going to be at novice if they aint packing when they could. Handgun skills like Jim Cirillo or Jerry Miculek don't do much good without a handgun.
So, someone that doesn't always carry might look at my rubric and choose not to respond because they would not like being in the "novice" category for not carrying whenever they could.

As applied to the 14 that have responded thus far to this thread, perhaps they looked at the criteria and did not want to respond that they are novice or intermediate, just a guess.
Those seem to be all very low “rubric” (achievements) to me.

As far as the 14 responses; I’m aware of the shooting/training and competency levels of most of the respondents, and I believe that Brownie’s well aware of them all. Based on my observations; your “guess” is very far off.

Why in the world would you “guess” that most of the respondents (who’ve spent a great deal of time and effort in seeking out good training, and who still continue to train) would be in the habit of leaving their carry guns at home; then lying about it because they don’t want others to know that they leave them at home?

It makes no sense to me, other than repeating your belief that many people with carry permits actually don’t often carry. That’s MOL a belief that you’ve stated multiple times before.

That may be true of the folks you know; but it’s pretty far from reality for the people on here that I’ve trained with, which includes many of those you continue to make blatantly wrong assumptions about.

You should seriously consider joining us down in Okeechobee for EBL’s one day TFP class in December. You’d be welcome, and meeting/shooting with some of us would probably put some of your oft-repeated concerns to rest. The training would most likely be a real eye-opener for you, too!
I don’t believe that there’ll be very many opportunities to get top quality threat focused pistol training for more than a few more years, AT BEST.

Seriously; come on down and train with us a bit. It means so much more when you’ve actually met and shot with the members that you interact with on here. I’d like to meet you, and I bet that a lot of the other members would, too! 👍 😃

More than a few years ago now; a member on this forum told me that, if I’d go to the TFP course that Brownie was scheduling, “and keep an open mind;” it would be very good for me. It wasn’t “very good;” it was LIFE-CHANGING!” As all who’ve experienced their first TFP class have unanimously agreed; I didn’t know what I didn’t know (actually; I was clueless)! I owe that guy more than I can say; even these years later.

So; I’ll “pay forward” that same courtesy to you. It really is “all that,” and more, my friend.
 

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I’m a better shotgunner and rifleman than handgun guy, but I’d put myself at 9. I mainly carry .45 acp so practice more with that than I do with the .40 or 9.

For those that mainly shoot/carry 9mm, I wonder if you draw and fire with the same ammo as you carry?

It’s one thing timing shots with anemic 115 grain target ammo, another with +P ammo.


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you raise a good point. I’m a reloader, and have always made my 9mm and .45acp practice ammo close to max loads; as I want it to shoot to the same POI as my carry ammo, and have the same recoil characteristics, for obvious reasons.

I’ve been shooting IDPA for over 15 years now, as it (and weekly IDPA practices) provides me with pretty much the only training opportunity (other than the TFP courses) where I can shoot on the move, draw from the holster, use cover/concealment, shoot around non-threats, and so on.

Since I’m not a gamer (I don’t shoot IDPA for the “sport” value); using any powderpuff loads would be most counter-productive. There are skills that I routinely use that add a little time to my score, which used to be “required” that no longer are; apparently because the “gamers” didn’t like having to remember how/when to execute tactical sequence vs tactical priority (near-to-far vs “boarding house rules”), proper use of cover (they now have “fault lines” at every shooting position), requiring movement while firing (they now state that a shooter’s heartbeat is “moving.”)

So; I shoot IDPA for the opportunity to practice potentially lifesaving skills; not for “sport.” That said; I generally fall fairly high up in the rankings when the scores are calculated.

I carried .45acp 1911s for many many years, but now I mostly carry 9mm pistols for the increased capacity, cheaper training ammo costs, and lower recoil; which equates to faster split times, recovery, and more controllable rounds on target more quickly. Anyone who plans for only one assailant, and doesn’t think reloads are necessary; hasn’t been keeping up with current events re forcible felonies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
I cut myself at #7 ;)
That said, I'm not sure where Bill Jordan would place on that rubric.



Well, if I did a CDW4ME carry rubric it might level something like this (approximate):
Novice: Doesn't consistently carry when they otherwise could
Apprentice: Consistently carries but carries "less" where they perceive low threat.
Proficient: Consistently carries handgun they would prefer in hand to defend themself - everywhere.
Distinguished: Consistently carries preferred handgun and spare mag or "backup" - everywhere.

On my rubric someone that considers them self an enlightened pistolero with competency beyond advanced is going to be at novice if they aint packing when they could. Handgun skills like Jim Cirillo or Jerry Miculek don't do much good without a handgun.
So, someone that doesn't always carry might look at my rubric and choose not to respond because they would not like being in the "novice" category for not carrying whenever they could.

As applied to the 14 that have responded thus far to this thread, perhaps they looked at the criteria and did not want to respond that they are novice or intermediate, just a guess.
I'll play.

Novice: Doesn't consistently carry when they otherwise could

I'll take that to mean weapons and specifically a handgun. I consistently carry one or more weapons when I'm not carrying a firearm for some reason. I suppose in your world, it's hard to understand someone like me who's had to go without carrying a firearm into places you'd be made as an leo post haste cause you're being searched. If not carrying a handgun every day puts me on your list as a novice, okay by me. I'm not however, a one trick pony.

Apprentice:

That's me as well, I'll take the PUG only on a motor trip through several states. I'll carry a lighter smaller caliber when it's 110F/95% humidity during the monsoons of summer.

Proficient:

That's me as well.

Distinguished:

I've never owned my preferred handgun, they haven't made it yet. I want one that shoots a box of 44 mag in one magazine and has the recoil of a 22lr. I've had many preferred handguns, each one was carried at times for years on the job. I can only pick one? cause in reality it changes based on venue and other circumstances. Sometimes the preferred handgun is the PUG 22mag ;)

So there you have it, I'm a novice and an apprentice and proficient and formerly distinguished. I'll take novice for 500 Alex.

7 on the list? Take Rick up on his offer, you'll move up several places in a day.
 

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As far as the 14 responses; I’m aware of the shooting/training and competency levels of most of the respondents, and I believe that Brownie’s well aware of them all. Based on my observations; your “guess” is very far off.



You should seriously consider joining us down in Okeechobee for EBL’s one day TFP class in December. You’d be welcome, and meeting/shooting with some of us would probably put some of your oft-repeated concerns to rest. The training would most likely be a real eye-opener for you, too!
I don’t believe that there’ll be very many opportunities to get top quality threat focused pistol training for more than a few more years, AT BEST.

Seriously; come on down and train with us a bit. It means so much more when you’ve actually met and shot with the members that you interact with on here. I’d like to meet you, and I bet that a lot of the other members would, too! 👍 😃
I meant people other than the 14 who had replied, maybe that is why some people did not reply.
I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone, just trying for an analogy of why some people might not respond to the thread.

I replied to the thread and what did my initial reply accomplish?
"#7 - Draw and fire in 1 second - I'm out; I was 1.5 second from retention 30 years ago.
I walk slow, talk slow; if I was a dog I'd be a Bulldog or Bullmastiff not a German Shepherd."

Unsurprisingly, nothing from my perspective; but, I'd have been naïve to expect anything different than a critique for that. I expected a critique and that is what I got.

Maybe some of those who have not replied exercised more discretion than I did.

I sincerely appreciate the offer, but I am truly not that social. To elaborate, there have been cookouts / get togethers on our street that I (we) did not attend and I have nothing against those people.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 · (Edited)
I meant people other than the 14 who had replied, maybe that is why some people did not reply.
I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone, just trying for an analogy of why some people might not respond to the thread.

I replied to the thread and what did my initial reply accomplish?
"#7 - Draw and fire in 1 second - I'm out; I was 1.5 second from retention 30 years ago.
I walk slow, talk slow; if I was a dog I'd be a Bulldog or Bullmastiff not a German Shepherd."

Unsurprisingly, nothing from my perspective; but, I'd have been naïve to expect anything different than a critique for that. I expected a critique and that is what I got.

Maybe some of those who have not replied exercised more discretion than I did.

I sincerely appreciate the offer, but I am truly not that social. To elaborate, there have been cookouts / get togethers on our street that I (we) did not attend and I have nothing against those people.
Interesting statement, being here on a social network and all. Joined Feb 12 of this year and have posted 463 times. 51 posts per month. :unsure:

Great opportunity to meet members and gain some perspective/skills. Remember, I'm an admitted novice on your list too. This thread was to give others a perspective of what skills can be accomplished through training/experience, not to critique others (y)
 

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I just had the time to read the OP and evaluate myself. I’m confident.I can repeatedly reach up to #15 very time. I can do #16 but only 4 of 6 positions as I have not shot laying down or behind the back. 17 I need more practice and 20 I have not timed myself.


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I just had the time to read the OP and evaluate myself. I’m confident.I can repeatedly reach up to #15 very time. I can do #16 but only 4 of 6 positions as I have not shot laying down or behind the back. 17 I need more practice and 20 I have not timed myself.


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You’d do fine.
I was shooting lying on my strong side under a bench, three weeks ago.
 

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Lying on your back or side and shooting ....hmmm seems to bring back memories of lying on my back, head toward the target....drawing and shooting over my head, gun upside down to the ground...to hit the target....while lying in a muddy range..... Bladeandbullet got the drier part next to me.....by the way, it was cold and wet that weekend, all of us shot concealed all weekend.....thanks Brownie.....
 

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Lying on your back or side and shooting ....hmmm seems to bring back memories of lying on my back, head toward the target....drawing and shooting over my head, gun upside down to the ground...to hit the target....while lying in a muddy range..... Bladeandbullet got the drier part next to me.....by the way, it was cold and wet that weekend, all of us shot concealed all weekend.....thanks Brownie.....
Good times and great memories!
They’re worth remembering and holding on to…
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
Lying on your back or side and shooting ....hmmm seems to bring back memories of lying on my back, head toward the target....drawing and shooting over my head, gun upside down to the ground...to hit the target....while lying in a muddy range..... Bladeandbullet got the drier part next to me.....by the way, it was cold and wet that weekend, all of us shot concealed all weekend.....thanks Brownie.....
Why don't you and Rick explain how easy that was the first time you were afforded the chance to try it? People may be under the impression it would be difficult to shoot upside down on your back, gun outstretched over your shoulders/head.
 

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Why don't you and Rick explain how easy that was the first time you were afforded the chance to try it? People may be under the impression it would be difficult to shoot upside down on your back, gun outstretched over your shoulders/head.
Getting down there, and then getting back up are the only things difficult about it.

Be sure to tell your significant other what you are up to before doing it out in the yard or driveway, tho.
 

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Getting down there, and then getting back up are the only things difficult about it.

Be sure to tell your significant other what you are up to before doing it out in the yard or driveway, tho.
That echos my first experience, as well. Sure, it was a bit unusual presenting the pistol upside down over one's head on a now inverted target, but shooting and hitting that target (a double tap, IIRC) wasn't difficult at all. After re-holstering, the hardest part was getting back up afterwards! 🤠
 

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Why don't you and Rick explain how easy that was the first time you were afforded the chance to try it? People may be under the impression it would be difficult to shoot upside down on your back, gun outstretched over your shoulders/head.
Piece of cake!
I’ve been shooting from “unusual” positions for many years now...
 
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