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A recent post from a new member got me to thinking.....

How many here think that custom barrels, custom triggers, recoil springs, extractors, lasers, optics..etc. etc., blah-blah-blah are going to make you better prepared to use your EDC's for self defense???

This is not a cheap endeavor, and I refuse to call it a hobby. It is serious business, folks. A quality SD handgun can easily run 500 to 800 bucks on average. Some slightly less, some much more. That's a hard enough "ouch" to the old wallet. But the above list of "custom gotta-haves" can easily run another grand. But what did that grand get you?

Talent? (can't buy that)
Ability? (can't buy that either)
Familiarity? (only time in the saddle buys that one)
Knowledge? (I've yet to find any piece of hardware that imparts knowledge)
Experience (you can actually learn experience, to some degree, from other people....but you cannot buy it)

So my question to you all is:

If you saved up to buy, say, a G19 or M&P or Sig or 1911, would you feel that you had gotten the most bang for your buck by spending another 1K on high-speed low-drag customizations to your weapon? Or would you sleep better at night knowing that you had spent those 10 Franklins on actually learning how to use the bone stock weapon you just bought by investing in a decent amount of ammo and being trained by a competent trainer like Will, Terry, or brownie?

Just food for thought. I know that personally I don't have the wampum for gizmo's and tactical crap that I had just a few years ago. So I stick to the basics and try to improve my abilities, not my firearm's abilities. I never know when I may have to pick up my BUG instead of my EDC, so the "between the ears" training and the physical familiarity are more important to me than any amount of tricked out modifications that I could make to any firearm...handgun, shotgun, or rifle.

I learned from one of, in my opinion, the best handgun instructors that has ever been....Special Agent James LaGrone, FBI. He did some of the most astounding things with a bone-stock, right out of the box S&W Model 10 pencil barrel .38 revolver. He didn't need fancy pistols with fancy trigger and action jobs, or super duper sights to be damned good with a plain jane revolver. He only needed familiarity, which comes from practice, practice, and more practice, and the introspective ability to realize when you "don't know it all" and make the necessary adjustments.

OK, rant over.

Beers y'all,
Ken
 

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I just loves me a Smith & Wesson model 10.......One of the most accurate out of the box guns made....
 

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:thumsup Ken

That takes a lot of rounds downrange over some time to be able to wring out what the guns are capable of right out of the box.

Ed McGiven used smith stock revos and still holds several records with a lowly revolver, like 6 shots inside a playing card from some distance in .40 seconds.

Now that's trigger time talking there, which translates to your

Talent
Ability
Familiarity (only time in the saddle buys that one)
Knowledge (I've yet to find any piece of hardware that imparts knowledge)
Experience (you can actually learn experience, to some degree, from other people....but you cannot buy it)
 

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All the extras are fine but for me I don't believe I have gotten to the level of skill yet where my factory stock gun limits me.
Reminds me of golf lessons... the teaching pros could always hit my clubs farther and straighter than I could... so it wasn't a lack of expensive Ping clubs.
Firearms instructors I've taken lessons from used their own gun but I'm fairly certain they could shoot my EDC better than I could.
 

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All my guns are Factory stock. and they work very well I don't see no reason to modify a Carry gun. unless there was some sort of problem or malfunction or maybe if I was going to use it for competition but then I wouldn't use it as my edc. and if you ever have to use that gun to defend your self. And End up in court the prosecutor may try to make a point of why you modified the gun.
 

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All the extras are fine but for me I don't believe I have gotten to the level of skill yet where my factory stock gun limits me.
Reminds me of golf lessons... the teaching pros could always hit my clubs farther and straighter than I could... so it wasn't a lack of expensive Ping clubs.
Firearms instructors I've taken lessons from used their own gun but I'm fairly certain they could shoot my EDC better than I could.
^ This

Sent from my SCH-R720 using Tapatalk
 

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Don't want to start an argument, but I had heard Ed's guns were modified, much stronger main springs, in order to allow for much faster reset?
He used both stock and modified guns. The modified guns were used to break a few longevity records where he was shooting for 5-8 hours [ # of shots out of the air without a miss was one record ]. His book "fast and fancy revolver shooting" [ I have a first edition in my reference library ] is a wealth of information and as interesting and insightful as any book about what humans are capable of regarding shooting I've read Scouse.
 

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All the extras are fine but for me I don't believe I have gotten to the level of skill yet where my factory stock gun limits me.
Reminds me of golf lessons... the teaching pros could always hit my clubs farther and straighter than I could... so it wasn't a lack of expensive Ping clubs.
Firearms instructors I've taken lessons from used their own gun but I'm fairly certain they could shoot my EDC better than I could.
Few will ever get to the level of outshooting a stock gun. In the world of long range rifle skills with the m14/M1a, it's recommended that one doesn't worry about glass bedding or air guaged barrels and spending that money on better equipment, etc until they can shoot better than the rifle they have is capable of producing.

In other words, many recommend spending the money on more ammo to learn to shoot beyond the rifles capabilities for accuracy. One of my M1a's will shoot 3/4" groups at 100 yrds with the scope, yet I can only hold 1 1/8" groups with the iron sights. I need to have better skills with iron sights as I'm not performing to the guns capabilities presently. I could make the mistake of chasing the equipment with air guaged barrels and glass bedding along with modifying the gas system [ spending the money ] but I still wouldn't be able to shoot to the rifles capacity in my rack grade rifle. So-- more practice, range time, less equipment chasing until I can shoot better than that rack grade is capable of, then and only then is it worth the money to upgrade to a more accurate rifle.

Few will ever learn to shoot to a particular firearms capability in their life. The mistake most will make is chasing equipment, around here, they're known as gear queers :grin
 

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several pretty damned use oriented training sessions have convinced me that my edc in stock form is capable of more than i am and well up to the task i purchased it for...and its dependable to boot...
 

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several pretty damned use oriented training sessions have convinced me that my edc in stock form is capable of more than i am and well up to the task i purchased it for...and its dependable to boot...
I still can't shoot to my firearms capabilities, but I'm still out there trying to Bnb. :grin
 

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Some changes to your EDC are for peace of mind, some are for function, and some are the same as fishing lures. You know you go to the store and stand there looking at all the lures and think wow I need one of these, it looks neat it's got to catch fish. The fishing lure type changes are usually all show with no advantages just “cool effect” IMHO. As for function things like night sights or big dot sights can be advantageous if they actually make a difference in your ability to hit what you’re aiming at. I did shoot better with three dot night sights over the stock Glock sights but once I got comfortable with my Glock I put the stock sights back on. To the peace of mind I swapped out the factory plastic return spring rod in my Glock to a metal one. I know that the factory one works fine and will probably work for as long as I own my Glock but I feel better with a metal return spring rod. The new rod does nothing but make me feel better but since it did not cost much I think it’s worth it. So the way I look at it unless it is something that actually makes you shoot better or sleep better than you should be training with your pistol not tricking out your pistol but then again I can sit here at my desk and trick out my pistol………..training would require me to get off my backside.
 

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All the mods I've done to my guns have been done to improve their shootability for ME. Night sights, slightly modified triggers, better safeties (on the ones that have them), better grips, etc... None of these things make me a better shooter, but they make my guns more shootable and consistent in MY hands.

Hell, the only handgun I own that has NO mods is my FNX-9, and that's because it's the only gun I own that was fine for me out of the box (it still needs night sights, though :grin).

Same with my carry gear. The only holsters I own that are 'off the shelf' are my comp-tac competition rigs. Everything else is custom made to my specs.

As for all the techno-crap folks hang off of their guns, lasers, optics, etc... I agree that they are not needed, and in most cases, more hindrance than benefit.

Much better to learn how to shoot correctly and spend that money on ammo/range time/training.
 

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Stock G17 with original night sights. The only mods I was planning to this old beater were to have the grip reduced and install a 3.5 trigger. The logic to those mods are my hands are very stiff from years of being half frozen delivering milk.
If anyone knows of other mods for arthritic hands please let me know. However, I will not give up the G17, it is and has always been in my head as the gun for me.
And looking at my avatar of the Springer 1911 I do love the 1911 grip and trigger, I can't carry it for hours due to hernia scarring. I wonder if the G17 grip could be reduced close to a 1911 shape. :dunno
 

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Stock G17 with original night sights. The only mods I was planning to this old beater were to have the grip reduced and install a 3.5 trigger. The logic to those mods are my hands are very stiff from years of being half frozen delivering milk.
If anyone knows of other mods for arthritic hands please let me know. However, I will not give up the G17, it is and has always been in my head as the gun for me.
And looking at my avatar of the Springer 1911 I do love the 1911 grip and trigger, I can't carry it for hours due to hernia scarring. I wonder if the G17 grip could be reduced close to a 1911 shape. :dunno
I did those mods to one of my G23s for the exact same reason, Joe...as well as converting it to 9mm. Helped a lot.

For the 3.5lb connector (gives you a 4.5lb trigger pull), I suggest the Glock OEM connector that comes standard in the G34s. I tried the Ghost Rocket and Lone Wolf connectors, and they were too 'slick' for me. The Glock connector gives you a very clean break and a sharp reset. Need to get them from a Glock Armorer. If you have trouble finding one, let me know, I do have access to them.
 

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Well, now that we are done trashing modifications, let's keep in mind that everything has it's place. Some mods are very beneficial for some people, (think older or disabled). For example: what's wrong with bigger, brighter, more easily visible sights for someone with eyesight problems??? What's wrong with different grips for someone with arthritis?? etc...........
I have a friend that is in a wheelchair, and some modifications enable my friend to shoot better from the very limiting confines of a wheelchair.
Training and practice are very important and, imho, should always be encouraged. Perhaps some mods could be used to compliment training and/or practice, instead of replacing training and/or practice?? (trying to be openminded)
To each his own. live and let live!
 

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Installing different sights [ night sights for example ] are not modifications IMO. The guns come with sights on them to begin with so changing them out is a replacement, not modifications.

Trigger mods may help one shoot better sooner but not any better than if one were to put the time in on the gun to begin with as evidenced by the likes of Jerry Miculek who can take a stock S+W DA revo and out shoot everyone including those with mods to their firearms. Taking shortcuts like this is counter productive in ones advancement of real skills training.

All my glocks have stock triggers, and factory night sights with the exception of the trainers that have had sights removed. I shoot those trainers at least as well as the firearms with sights on them, but then that's a training issue once again. The crux of the issue is that there are far too many people who want to take what they believe to be shortcuts to be better sooner instead of actually putting in the work necessary otherwise.

I don't shoot a 1911 SA trigger any better than I shoot a Sig DA/SA trigger. That's due to the number of rounds downrange over the years, not modifications.
 

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Installing different sights [ night sights for example ] are not modifications IMO. The guns come with sights on them to begin with so changing them out is a replacement, not modifications.

Trigger mods may help one shoot better sooner but not any better than if one were to put the time in on the gun to begin with as evidenced by the likes of Jerry Miculek who can take a stock S+W DA revo and out shoot everyone including those with mods to their firearms. Taking shortcuts like this is counter productive in ones advancement of real skills training.

All my glocks have stock triggers, and factory night sights with the exception of the trainers that have had sights removed. I shoot those trainers at least as well as the firearms with sights on them, but then that's a training issue once again. The crux of the issue is that there are far too many people who want to take what they believe to be shortcuts to be better sooner instead of actually putting in the work necessary otherwise.

I don't shoot a 1911 SA trigger any better than I shoot a Sig DA/SA trigger. That's due to the number of rounds downrange over the years, not modifications.
Understood, though my potential mods are all to do with comfort, easing pain at times.
Since my Springer came back from SA it feels as though a deep breath on the trigger will fire it. I love that. Didn't measure the pull yet, going to pull out the (ILS) Internal Locking System and feel the difference.
For me it is not about trying a trick to shoot better, it is about easing pain so I can practice more.
 
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