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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Folks,
I've been looking at some 100 year anniversary videos on WWI and weapons thereof.

I've been struck by the fact that since 1900 and the great John M. Brownings invention of the .32 ACP / 7.65mm massive numbers of .32s have been sold and used.

Now I know the power hype has lead to a few folks carrying a 10mm Glock under one arm, a Ruger Alaskan under the other and the person hopes and prays every night and morning that the sidearms will bruise and distract an attacker long enough for them to get to their vehicle and engage with the turret weapon. :aarg

Until the 1970s many Euro-police forces used the 7.65mm and did not feel under gunned, but I was in FRG when the conversion to 9x19mm was just beginning. The Erlangen police still carried 7.65 Walthers and the Nuremburg Police were carrying P9 H&Ks in cross draw holsters worn low.

I do not feel "disarmed" with my Ruger LCP .380 ACP, but I confess I regularly carry a Kahr P9094N, or sometimes a S&W 638 in .38 Special.

I am old enough to remember the "Quell System" promoted in the gun rags of the day and I know the penetration tests show the 7.65 has adequate penetration per various jello tests on youtube (TM).

So, do we really need to carry a large, heavy gun for CCW as long as we are accurate with our chosen sidearm?

Geoff
Who notes Paris Theodore is disregarded now days and was allegedly SERIOUSLY disliked by Chic Gaylord (holster maker) and George W. Nonte (Gunsmith) back in the day.
 

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A .380 can be a reasonably effective firearm for self defense. The 9mm Luger is more effective. The .45 ACP is more effective still. Do you NEED a .45 ACP for self defense? Probably not. But then, maybe so.

The point is that you are asking the wrong question. I don't care about the answer to, what is the MINIMUM caliber that I can carry and still effectively defend myself. The question to ask is, what is the MAXIMUM caliber that I can carry and still use effectively.
 

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I carry a 380 when I am wearing 'shorts and flip flops', in a pocket holster, and a 32 if I am carrying while wearing a suit, and have never felt under-gunned.
 

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Wow - I must really be in a funk tonight.
This is my 2nd post here and both deal with open carry, or the lack thereof! (Still irritated with the legislative non-action this session!)

If we had Open Carry, I would wear my Glock-19 or 26 (both are 9mm) and dispense with the .380 entirely.

I'm sure the .380 is a capable round. That's not the point.
By the time you find the right holster that can hide your scary gun from the sheeple's view, etc... (i.e., to comply with our RIDICULOUS carry laws), and the fact that South Florida is hot as Hell in summer, then that .380 starts to look downright appealing. Of course, you'll never get it out in time when it's desperately needed and/or shoot yourself in the foot fumbling around with it, etc...

Maybe that's the intent? - make it difficult so as to discourage "gun violence".

I better stop now. I can feel my blood pressure elevating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

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Of course, you'll never get it out in time when it's desperately needed and/or shoot yourself in the foot fumbling around with it, etc...
Drawing from the pocket is most often quicker than from anywhere else it may be holstered. As with anything though, that depends.

As far as fumbling is concerned, that will happen with lack of training regardless of where it's carried.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 

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Drawing from the pocket is most often quicker than from anywhere else it may be holstered. As with anything though, that depends.

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I'm much faster and more efficient drawing from my IWB holster and probably would not use a pocket holster simply because my pockets vary depending on what I'm wearing; so would the drawing of my gun. I would definitely be in the fumbling camp with a pocket holster. Geez, I sometimes have a hard time getting my keys out of my pocket :dunno
 

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I'm much faster and more efficient drawing from my IWB holster and probably would not use a pocket holster simply because my pockets vary depending on what I'm wearing; so would the drawing of my gun. I would definitely be in the fumbling camp with a pocket holster. Geez, I sometimes have a hard time getting my keys out of my pocket :dunno
Makes total sense and completely supports my point about training. :thumsup

For others, the complete opposite will be true.

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...the fact that South Florida is hot as Hell in summer, then that .380 starts to look downright appealing.
Last weekend I was out and about, carrying a double-stack 9mm, while wearing a t-shirt and shorts. No one stopped, and stared, and pointed at the "man with a gun." No one called the police (of if they did it took them so long to respond that I was gone by then). No one shouted "Oh my God! He has a gun!"

Is it possible that someone noticed the bulge under my t-shirt? Sure. They probably thought it was a cell-phone. Or maybe they guessed that it was a gun, and took it in stride (as I do when I notice someone with a grip-shaped bulge under their shirt). But I'm willing to bet that those who noticed were a tiny, tiny fraction of the people I came into contact with, and it is entirely possible that NO ONE noticed.

I think that most of the people who BELIEVE that they cannot carry anything larger than a small .380 (or something even smaller), are simply under-estimating what it is possible to very effectively carry concealed. I also think they are seriously under-estimating how completely oblivious the majority of the public is to anything and everything going on around them!
 

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^^^^
This. Routinely carry P229 or full size 1911 OWB under un-tucked shirt with nary a problem.
 

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Makes total sense and completely supports my point about training. :thumsup

For others, the complete opposite will be true.

-on Tapatalk
Maybe... but I would rather train with open carry.
I realize that is not the thrust of your reply, and agree that training is always required.
 

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Last weekend I was out and about, carrying a double-stack 9mm, while wearing a t-shirt and shorts. No one stopped, and stared, and pointed at the "man with a gun." No one called the police (of if they did it took them so long to respond that I was gone by then). No one shouted "Oh my God! He has a gun!"

Is it possible that someone noticed the bulge under my t-shirt? Sure. They probably thought it was a cell-phone. Or maybe they guessed that it was a gun, and took it in stride (as I do when I notice someone with a grip-shaped bulge under their shirt). But I'm willing to bet that those who noticed were a tiny, tiny fraction of the people I came into contact with, and it is entirely possible that NO ONE noticed.

I think that most of the people who BELIEVE that they cannot carry anything larger than a small .380 (or something even smaller), are simply under-estimating what it is possible to very effectively carry concealed. I also think they are seriously under-estimating how completely oblivious the majority of the public is to anything and everything going on around them!
I know you're right! :thumsup
 

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Maybe... but I would rather train with open carry.
I realize that is not the thrust of your reply, and agree that training is always required.
Other than large ammo requirements and hundreds of draw strokes in two days which becomes a matter of convenience and energy reserves, the benefit of training from concealed is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
















You gain proprioceptive abilities and it eventually becomes autonomic so you cut the odds of fumbling the draw.
 

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I carry a full size double stack 9mm most of the time OWB under a tee shirt for comfort level and I always watch for prying eyes. I'm pretty sure no one has ever noticed my OWB carry except one time in church. A woman and her toddler was sitting next to me and the child dropped his crayon on the floor at my feet. I went down to pick it up and when I turned to her, I caught her looking at my holster that peeked out from under my shirt. She smiled at me and thanked me for retrieving the crayon and I could tell she wasn't concerned. I found a holster that I can slide back and forth on my belt a bit. 2 o'clock while walking and I slide it to 3 o'clock when I sit in my car. Course there are times I wear a IWB when needed for better concealment and always have a backup Glock 42 on my ankle.
 
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