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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Concealed carry daily firearm. An imminent threat presents itself. The timer begins

1. Time to access the firearm
2. Time to draw the firearm to a firing position
3. Time to fire multiple rounds on threat
4. Time to transition from one threat to another
5. Time to reload for whatever reason if need be [ gun jammed, ran dry ]

Time to access the firearm from concealed. Any idea how long it takes you?
Time to draw. Any idea how long it takes you?
Time to fire multiple rounds [ are they .25 seconds apart or .40 or even more seconds apart etc ]
Time of transitions. Any idea what your transition times are?

I understand there'll be few here who have any idea about the time it takes to utilize/work any of the skills above. Some will obviously have shot matches, played with timers etc.

Here's something I played with at 10-12 feet on two threats, one shot each [ as that's boarding house rules ]. I have the luxury of seeing in .00 seconds on the editor timer in slow motion frame by frame. Couldn't possible have any idea of my own answers above, until I put them into the editor, like this.

From the time my hand begins to move to having cleared the garment hand on gun is .56 seconds. Clearing the holster to first shot is .28 seconds. For a first hit from concealed at .84 seconds. My transition to the second target was .30 seconds. 1.14 seconds start to one shot each on two BG's

I had some runs where the transitioning was a little faster, the draw a little slower, etc but I'm below 1 second to draw and fire on one person from concealed. My transitions can be faster or slower, as low as .17 to .35 seconds depending on how far apart the threats are placed.

If you've never used a timer, a good place to start is setting the par time for 2 seconds. At the beep draw and fire before the 2 second beep goes off. Oh, you can beat that 2 seconds, drop it 1.5 seconds if the time allows, if not, go to one second and play with that until you can draw and fire before the second beep.

Take .25 seconds off those times noted. That's reaction time to a sound or visual cue. In mine above I'm deciding when to initiate the draw, that's when the time starts on the counter in the editor.

If ya know your times, post em up. If you don't have a clue, might be worth exploring to determine where you may need more practice to reduce the times of any of those listed above

 

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My honest answer is I have no clue on these questions. Maybe you should come out of retirement and run some more classes on this stuff to teach us? Just my opinion and vote.

Sign me up. I’m willing to learn. (y)

Love the questions and scenarios, keep them coming. They are thought provoking. But most of us, including myself need lots of hands on training. (y)
 

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Not sure these days but at one of your courses (maybe 2015 at Volusia?), draw and fire on two targets was something on the order of 1.3 secs with a split of ~0.35 sec. I'll have to search out the actual data. Now days, I'm hoping it's not too much over that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
In this one I had a gamer on one of the boards [ GT ] question my statement I was fast, but I had never been timed. He said I might think I'm fast, timer will tell the truth. TRUTH!!!!!! You think I'm not telling the truth? He mentioned a 2-2-2- drill they perform to judge speed at 4 yrds. Two hits on each from the buzzer at 4 yrds is the drill.

So I go set up 3 targets at 4 yrds, bring someone to run the timer and we're off to the races.

.24 to hand on gun from hands at side. 1.06 seconds to first hit. First transition .26 seconds, second transition .30 seconds. 2.24 seconds for two each on 3 perps.

When I threw the video up for him, he simply stated, "ya, you're fast". My reply, I didn't need the timer to tell me that, but there's the verification you were looking for. This was part of an argument between members who were front sight press advocated and a few of us threat focused shooters.

Again, I didn't know how fast I was but the timer tells the tale of fast or lack thereof

 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Not sure these days but at one of your courses (maybe 2015 at Volusia?), draw and fire on two targets was something on the order of 1.3 secs with a split of ~0.35 sec. I'll have to search out the actual data. Now days, I'm hoping it's not too much over that.
That sounds more than reasonable having seen you shoot in several COF's. 🖕
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
My honest answer is I have no clue on these questions. Maybe you should come out of retirement and run some more classes on this stuff to teach us? Just my opinion and vote.

Sign me up. I’m willing to learn. (y)

Love the questions and scenarios, keep them coming. They are thought provoking. But most of us, including myself need lots of hands on training. (y)
Out of retirement? Again? I've retired 3 times already. Appreciate the thoughts 🤜
 

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Out of retirement? Again? I've retired 3 times already. Appreciate the thoughts 🤜
You can do sequential "reunion tours" like KISS has for years.
 

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Out of retirement? Again? I've retired 3 times already. Appreciate the thoughts 🤜
Welllllllll……………quit retiring!!!!!!! 🤪
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
We defend ourselves from a defensive posture. Usually the BG starts first. If you're just as fast as he is, you lose. If you're slower than he is, you lose. BUT, if you have developed the speed to draw and fire in about 1 second, you may have the best chance of putting lead on him before taking one yourself.

Ya gotta make up the lag time to respond [ or start first ] and the way to get there is developing the time elements listed in the first post. Developing and reducing increments of time provided me with an edge when I've had to defend. I know for a fact, had I not been taught and practiced extensively in one particular skill, I'd have grown cold forever. That involved two BG's who were trying to bring their AK's to bare upon my person at spitting distance. Pucker factor 20 on a scale of 1-10 I assure you.

Speed kills, the other guy. Lack of speed is unacceptable to me, always has been.
 

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Concealed carry daily firearm. An imminent threat presents itself. The timer begins

1. Time to access the firearm
2. Time to draw the firearm to a firing position
3. Time to fire multiple rounds on threat
4. Time to transition from one threat to another
5. Time to reload for whatever reason if need be [ gun jammed, ran dry ]

Time to access the firearm from concealed. Any idea how long it takes you?
Time to draw. Any idea how long it takes you?
Time to fire multiple rounds [ are they .25 seconds apart or .40 or even more seconds apart etc ]
Time of transitions. Any idea what your transition times are?

I understand there'll be few here who have any idea about the time it takes to utilize/work any of the skills above. Some will obviously have shot matches, played with timers etc.

Here's something I played with at 10-12 feet on two threats, one shot each [ as that's boarding house rules ]. I have the luxury of seeing in .00 seconds on the editor timer in slow motion frame by frame. Couldn't possible have any idea of my own answers above, until I put them into the editor, like this.

From the time my hand begins to move to having cleared the garment hand on gun is .56 seconds. Clearing the holster to first shot is .28 seconds. For a first hit from concealed at .84 seconds. My transition to the second target was .30 seconds. 1.14 seconds start to one shot each on two BG's

I had some runs where the transitioning was a little faster, the draw a little slower, etc but I'm below 1 second to draw and fire on one person from concealed. My transitions can be faster or slower, as low as .17 to .35 seconds depending on how far apart the threats are placed.

If you've never used a timer, a good place to start is setting the par time for 2 seconds. At the beep draw and fire before the 2 second beep goes off. Oh, you can beat that 2 seconds, drop it 1.5 seconds if the time allows, if not, go to one second and play with that until you can draw and fire before the second beep.

Take .25 seconds off those times noted. That's reaction time to a sound or visual cue. In mine above I'm deciding when to initiate the draw, that's when the time starts on the counter in the editor.

If ya know your times, post em up. If you don't have a clue, might be worth exploring to determine where you may need more practice to reduce the times of any of those listed above

This post is a clinic on developing a faster draw from concealment. People wishing to speed things up would do well to pay attention to it.
 

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We defend ourselves from a defensive posture. Usually the BG starts first. If you're just as fast as he is, you lose. If you're slower than he is, you lose. BUT, if you have developed the speed to draw and fire in about 1 second, you may have the best chance of putting lead on him before taking one yourself.

Ya gotta make up the lag time to respond [ or start first ] and the way to get there is developing the time elements listed in the first post. Developing and reducing increments of time provided me with an edge when I've had to defend. I know for a fact, had I not been taught and practiced extensively in one particular skill, I'd have grown cold forever. That involved two BG's who were trying to bring their AK's to bare upon my person at spitting distance. Pucker factor 20 on a scale of 1-10 I assure you.

Speed kills, the other guy. Lack of speed is unacceptable to me, always has been.
And an explanation of why a fast draw is a necessary skill for an armed citizen to possess.
 

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My honest answer is I have no clue on these questions. Maybe you should come out of retirement and run some more classes on this stuff to teach us? Just my opinion and vote.

Sign me up. I’m willing to learn. (y)

Love the questions and scenarios, keep them coming. They are thought provoking. But most of us, including myself need lots of hands on training. (y)
Reading Brownie's how-to, watching the video to see what is possible and developing those skills on your own make for a great starting point in the path to a more efficient, effective draw.
 

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The beep of a shot timer is .3 seconds in duration. I strive to have my hand at least on the gun before the end of that beep. My measured reaction time from the beep is .13 seconds, so that gives me .17 seconds from the time I hear the beep to uncover and get my hand to the gun.
 
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