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I remember when the Tueller drill first came out in the mid 80s. It was used for a number of purposes it was shortly after the military went to the Beretta‘s, our local police department went to Smith model 59. The drill taught a number of things, primary being that at a certain distance a man with a knife was a lethal threat. He could cover 7 yards before you could draw and fire in most circumstances. In that sense, it taught you to work on your draw.

Additionally it reinforced training to “get off the X” It also taught the value of cover. I think it did teach people to work on the speed of their draw. One of the main things it did was to demonstrably show the lethality of a man with a knife facing you 7 yards away with intent to do harm. It was used many times to my knowledge to demonstrate a justifiable use of lethal force. When we used to use those 300° simulators with the guy in the parking lot holding a knife, that’s exactly what they were designed to show. I remember one of the instructors telling my buddy “congratulations, you just got stabbed to death“
 

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I remember when the Tueller drill first came out in the mid 80s. It was used for a number of purposes it was shortly after the military went to the Beretta‘s, our local police department went to Smith model 59. The drill taught a number of things, primary being that at a certain distance a man with a knife was a lethal threat. He could cover 7 yards before you could draw and fire in most circumstances. In that sense, it taught you to work on your draw.

Additionally it reinforced training to “get off the X” It also taught the value of cover. I think it did teach people to work on the speed of their draw. One of the main things it did was to demonstrably show the lethality of a man with a knife facing you 7 yards away with intent to do harm. It was used many times to my knowledge to demonstrate a justifiable use of lethal force. When we used to use those 300° simulators with the guy in the parking lot holding a knife, that’s exactly what they were designed to show. I remember one of the instructors telling my buddy “congratulations, you just got stabbed to death“
Precisely how it was taught to me, Shark, especially that second learning objective about "getting off the X." It's an illustrative technique designed to educate the defender on how one might respond to a knife-wielding attacker outside of about 7 yards. In one of brownie's courses (IIRC, Volusia FoF with AirSoft pistols and training blades), he taught just the right moment to "move of the X" and when one sees and understands that defensive response, the attacker doesn't get close enough to strike before the defender has significantly increased the odds of a successful defense. The attacker might even get ventilated as he goes by! 🤠
 

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Precisely how it was taught to me, Shark, especially that second learning objective about "getting off the X." It's an illustrative technique designed to educate the defender on how one might respond to a knife-wielding attacker outside of about 7 yards. In one of brownie's courses (IIRC, Volusia FoF with AirSoft pistols and training blades), he taught just the right moment to "move of the X" and when one sees and understands that defensive response, the attacker doesn't get close enough to strike before the defender has significantly increased the odds of a successful defense. The attacker might even get ventilated as he goes by! 🤠
I was there!
 

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Precisely how it was taught to me, Shark, especially that second learning objective about "getting off the X." It's an illustrative technique designed to educate the defender on how one might respond to a knife-wielding attacker outside of about 7 yards. In one of brownie's courses (IIRC, Volusia FoF with AirSoft pistols and training blades), he taught just the right moment to "move of the X" and when one sees and understands that defensive response, the attacker doesn't get close enough to strike before the defender has significantly increased the odds of a successful defense. The attacker might even get ventilated as he goes by! 🤠
As people who were there, saw it and then experienced it first hand in training, it's a tactic that works
 

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"How would anybody use the Tueller drill to improve their draw time?"

exactly my point...

I was there!
then you understand...draw time isnt what saves you when you are being charged...getting off the X is...i dont care how fast your draw is...a charging assailant has momentum and their last breathes on their side...the best defense is not being there when they arrive...you can take care of neutralizing them in due time...
 

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Precisely how it was taught to me, Shark, especially that second learning objective about "getting off the X." It's an illustrative technique designed to educate the defender on how one might respond to a knife-wielding attacker outside of about 7 yards. In one of brownie's courses (IIRC, Volusia FoF with AirSoft pistols and training blades), he taught just the right moment to "move of the X" and when one sees and understands that defensive response, the attacker doesn't get close enough to strike before the defender has significantly increased the odds of a successful defense. The attacker might even get ventilated as he goes by! 🤠
I remember it well.
We had to stand there empty handed, and wait until the running BG with a blade got close enough so that when we moved aside he didn’t have time to change direction and intercept us, but far enough away that he couldn't reach us with his blade.
 

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I remember it well.
We had to stand there empty handed, and wait until the running BG with a blade got close enough so that when we moved aside he didn’t have time to change direction and intercept us, but far enough away that he couldn't reach us with his blade.
And in many cases, that was 55-65 y/o male and female defenders against a sprinting 30 something y/o (HSD) with a training blade!🤠
 

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Yup, but like Yoda, don't underestimate him! 🤣
 

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I am not trying to be a dick. But my draw to first shot CNS has always been .82 and under. When I was younger it was under .5. It is all about technique and practice. I have slowed down since I have aged. But still haven’t seen many that can beat my draw to first shot. Not saying they aren’t out there. I just haven’t seen them.
Some of you have seen it.
 

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"How would anybody use the Tueller drill to improve their draw time?"

exactly my point...



then you understand...draw time isnt what saves you when you are being charged...getting off the X is...i dont care how fast your draw is...a charging assailant has momentum and their last breathes on their side...the best defense is not being there when they arrive...you can take care of neutralizing them in due time...
You probably will hate this answer. It is not about getting off the X. It is about moving the X.

 
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Heck, the instructor was just a little old man...
i believe the preferred term is "pot belly stove"...dont touch...youll get burned...
 

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You probably will hate this answer. It is not about getting off the X. It is about moving the X.

not at all, bob...i knew it was going to be about disturbing the ooda loop before i even opened the link...it's what i teach my students for violent encounter defense/offense...and i expect it from you...

well played...
 

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funny stories just popped into my head...we have mandatory active assailant training in the schools these days with evade, hide & fight (last resort) instructions...my students are familiar with some of the training i have had and get pretty inquisitive at times...

one of my students asked what they could possibly do in the event a shooter came through the door and the entire class was trapped in a blind, no escape situation...before he finished his question i had picked up a small personal whiteboard and launched it at the door...it hit with a loud bang and broke the corner off the board...i told them to imagine every white board, textbook, chair followed by the desks moving toward the front of the room before the shooter even got all the way through the door...it may not end well for some...but i beats sitting and waiting for the slaughter...

another year i was showing them how to build a quick barricade at the door, then demonstrated using a chair as a weapon...one of the students asked if i would like them to walk the chair out to the dumpster...i looked down and the legs were caved in from a no holding back swing at the corner of the barricade...i suggested we place some of the garbage on top of it as i didnt want to have to answer questions from administration....

the ooda loop is written out on my board the entire year...
 

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Having been around tactical jet military aviation all my adult life, Col John Boyd's OODA Loop has been in my vocabulary for a long time. So when I came to put as much effort into studying self defense, the application to SD scenarios was natural.

Great post there BB and your students are well ahead of life's challenges because of it. Well done, Sir! (y)(y)

Reading of your discussions with your students reminds me of an exchange between my wife and a squadron mates wife (NYC girl) when I was stationed in England in the early '80s. She described how she planned to use a cookie sheet as an improvised weapon to subdue what she thought was an attacker, but thankfully was her husband playing a "got ya" surprise. He doesn't know how close he came to an ER visit or worse from a savvy girl from NYC. Later we all had a great laugh about it but her out of the box thinking stuck with this then 22 y/o who'd not really thought about SD or improvised weapons before.
 
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