[brownie]

You've got a 6" width window to take a hostage through a few innocents in front of him at 30 feet.

Can you thread that needle and make the shot? How confident are you that you could make that shot 100% of the time?

Have you ever tried to thread the needle between targets that only leave you that 6" window?

 

[bladenbullet]

I got caught in a situation in idpa once...a monster match where we burned multiple mags in a scenario...I ran an entire course of fire through a hall and more...the rso informed me I left a small popper standing...I ran through the hall and spotted one but stopped at a window where I didn't have a clean shot due to stacked 55 gallon drums outside the window...I spied the popper through a crack on the left side of the barrels and reached around the right side...I articulated my wrist to agree with my line of sight on the left side of the barrel.. squeezed the trigger and the popper dropped...the whole berm went dead silent...the rso just said "nice shot"...I turned around and said "did you see that sh¹t?"....we all laughed...threat focused shooting and heightened priopreception...I don't know if I could duplicate the shot but I never even though about it...just did it...it made sense to me and it was without hesitation...

 

[BeerHunter]

The one time I had to test myself was in your Force-on-Force course at Volusia and the "bad guy" was dancing such a jig with artemis as the hostage and his head only half visible behind hers. It was only about 10 ft, not 30 ft and I didn't have the confidence I could make that shot on such a dynamic target and retreated out of sight of the bad guy.

Could I thread the needle now with my level of training with my current EDC, still not 100% sure, but perhaps.

 

[deadeyedick]

Sure, done it plenty of times...on the range.

As with all of these scenarios, there are too many variables to give a blanket yes or no answer to the question. What is the distance? What's behind the hostage taker? Is he aware of my presence? Am I carrying a mouse gun or a full size service pistol? And so on.

 

[bladenbullet]

My wife and daughter are aware if they leave me an opening I will take the legs away from a threat holding them and finish them when they make space...

 

[brownie]

Sure, done it plenty of times...on the range.

As with all of these scenarios, there are too many variables to give a blanket yes or no answer to the question. What is the distance?

given

What's behind the hostage taker?

Doesn't matter if you can make the shot. LOL

Is he aware of my presence?

If he was, you wouldn't have that 6" window for long.

Am I carrying a mouse gun or a full size service pistol? And so on.

With the gun you normally carry on the streets. Could be an lcp, g17, NAA PUG if those are what you carry on the street.

 

[7.62Kolectr]

Wife and son and I have a word cue. I say it they drop.
Might give me a better op.
Strangers as the hostage I couldn’t say. Confident yes, certain no.

 

[OHEng]

I'm not confident I could make that shot. Closest thing to that I've ever done is shoot at a paper plate (perp's head) set behind two 2-liter bottles about 6-7" apart. That was at 7 yards. Very slow rate of fire, 6 rounds in 20 seconds. I hit the plate 6 for 6 and didn't hit the 2-liter bottles. 30ft with human heads? Not a chance I'd take the shot unless it was an immediate family member AND I was convinced they were about to die if I did not take that shot. Aside from that, I wouldn't have the confidence to take the shot.

 

[AFJuvat]

Have made similar shots against inanimate targets, so like 7.62 said above, confident, but not certain.

 

[mike1956]

With the gun you normally carry on the streets. Could be an lcp, g17, NAA PUG if those are what you carry on the street.

Am I confident of my ability with my carry gun? Yes.

How about with someone else's gun? Absolutely not. I had the much closer hostage shot at your F-on-F scenario, using someone else's airsoft. It turned out that the front sight post was missing, which I didn't notice until I took the first shot. 4" low...

 

[brownie]

I'm not confident I could make that shot. Closest thing to that I've ever done is shoot at a paper plate (perp's head) set behind two 2-liter bottles about 6-7" apart. That was at 7 yards. Very slow rate of fire, 6 rounds in 20 seconds. I hit the plate 6 for 6 and didn't hit the 2-liter bottles. 30ft with human heads? Not a chance I'd take the shot unless it was an immediate family member AND I was convinced they were about to die if I did not take that shot. Aside from that, I wouldn't have the confidence to take the shot.

5 head shots in 4.0 seconds from surrender position with a 1911 mil spec at 33 feet [ standard plate rack match distance. But head shots aren't just 6" laterally, they are 8-9". If I slow down just a little, of course threading the needle wouldn't ever be an issue.

One MUST have command of the basics to threat the needle. I finish every range session with 50-100 yrds shots on hub cap or top of a 5 gallon paint pail. This was always my way of making sure my basics were still solid

 

[nittany lion fan]

I practice a variation of that drill from a low ready position. My club range has a steel stimulated hostage target at about 12 yards that contains a reactive 6" (more or less) circle behind and between the "hostages". My hit rate is very high, but it isn't 100%.

The misses leave me less than completely confident that I could make the shot you described 100% of the time - especially in a dynamic, high stress , life or death situation.

 

[brownie]

So lets amend the posts question.

Can you thread the needle at 30 feet and put a round into an area 6" laterally. Forget the hostage taker scenario's, shooting past two innocents.

Simply can you put a round into a target that's 6" wide [ the length of a US dollar bill ] at 30 feet reliably?

 

[AFJuvat]

....Simply can you put a round into a target that's 6" wide [ the length of a US dollar bill ] at 30 feet reliably?

Yes.

 

[7.62Kolectr]

So lets amend the posts question.

Can you thread the needle at 30 feet and put a round into an area 6" laterally. Forget the hostage taker scenario's, shooting past two innocents.

Simply can you put a round into a target that's 6" wide [ the length of a US dollar bill ] at 30 feet reliably?

simply. Yes. With multiple different guns.
But, you said laterally. So are making that shot while moving left or right or standing still?

 

[mike1956]

It's great to set standards/tests in that it not only gets folks away from Dunning-Kruger, but also sets a baseline from which to either be content with or improve upon. Back to the question:

With my carry guns, I will hit the 6" square at 10 yards 100% of the time.

I will successfully hit at least the required 16/20 on the NRA Instructor Qualification 5" circle at fifteen yards every time.

I will hit the 2/3 TDI steel silhouette at 25 yards 100% of the time. For reference, as I work my way back to 50 yards, I will go at least two for three every time. At seventy-five yards, at least one out of four, usually two out of four.

Adding a par time to any such drill will dramatically change the initial results. At twenty-five yards, for example, my goal is to consistently score an A-zone hit from concealment in 1.5 seconds.

 

[edgehill]

Five years ago, I would have said no. I'm closer today. Hit the dollar bill at 60 feet at the last class. Just need to keep practicing that in my range trips.

 

[brownie]

simply. Yes. With multiple different guns.
But, you said laterally. So are making that shot while moving left or right or standing still?

No, I meant laterally instead of vertically. The vertical could be 15-20", it's can you score inside that 6" lateral window.

I asked the question because at one of the Volusia courses, I set up two threats covering most of a 3rd target just behind the two that left students with a 6" window. The dismal performance of the basics was disheartening to say the least.

 

[7.62Kolectr]

Oh. So the target not you. I see.

 

[mike1956]

Five years ago, I would have said no. I'm closer today. Hit the dollar bill at 60 feet at the last class. Just need to keep practicing that in my range trips.

Training and practice make good things happen. Nicely done!

I have found that dry fire on those precision targets has helped me to improve considerably in a fairly short time.