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Thoughts on Deployment and Defending with a knife

Having something like 150 hours formal training with Jim Keating and another 50+ hours with Mike Janich, I've got a fair idea about the subject myself.

Deployment is always going to be a priority. If you can't access it quickly enough, you can't use it. Pretty simple, just like gun deployments, got get it operational to be able to use it.

The subject of deployment under pressure could take volumes and several books to fully address the many possibilities available based on various blade configurations, how they are attached to your body [ clip, belt holster, etc ], reverse or saber grip, hammer grips, reverse grip deployment as well as where they are carried upon the person, how long the blade is, blah blah blah.

The use of the blade to defend oneself with would take another several books in the various grips used, their strengths and weaknesses, the systems developed using the various types of grips [ how one is holding the knife, not the knifes actual grip ], as well as the materials used in the grip materials, the various knife grip shapes, blah blah blah.

The length of the blades carried will determine it's strengths if one has the talent as well. For intance, I'll take a true fighting bowie who's blade is 10-12" long over any folder if I know I need to use a knife to defend, but I get to carry a straight blade that's 5" of cutting surface daily where I live and that will suffice. It suffices with different skills used than the 10-12" blades, and so do the small folders suffice but one has to understand how to use the smaller blades to their greatest strengths, and stay away from using it in a way that it's weaknesses are exposed.

The blade is used deceptively if one knows how to use it properly. One also needs to understand how to protect their core with a blade and make effective use of the off hand in concert with the live blade hand. Volumes of books could be written on this subject alone as well. In protecting the core, the blade has a primary job and a secondary job. The primary job is to protect your person, and the secondary is to cut the other guy when the opportunity presents itself based on the opponent making mistakes.

They can make mistakes on their own, or they can be force to make mistakes to open their core to your blade. In primary roles of protecting your bodies core, it can simultaneously be used to attack and injure while doing so. The "dual" purpose of the blade becoming one objective when one has enough formal training and a thorough understanding of how to use the blades to effect the best defense and offense simultaneously. The high art of the blade, if you will, which most do not understand how to use properly.

Everyone has a "favorite" system of blade training with their personal favorites in knife design, length, locking system [ in the case of the folder ] etc. I personally think that is going to be somewhat narrow in scope for the true bladesman who wants a thorough understanding of the blade or who wants to be well rounded in scope when it comes to defending with a blade.

I mention the last as it's not what you know how to do with a blade, but how a blade can be used against you that brings you to the higher level of understanding what skills will be needed in such an encounter. It's this that most miss in their training and which Jim drove home in the training a lot while training with the various types of blades relative length and design as well as how they were being presented by the opponent.

The more you understand how one is presenting themselves to you with their blade and that dictating what can be done by them, the better you understand how to defend with your own blade. Most will concentrate on their own blade work in lieu of pursuing the understanding of how to effectively defeat an attack based on the way a blade is presented to your person by the opponent.

It's been quite a while since I've trained religiously with the blades as I used to, but this mental aspect I spoke of keeps the physical skills and reactions to others advances in the fore.

You can teach a monkey how to use a knife offensively in a short time, but developing the "sense" of how an opponent is presenting, how to short circuit his attempts with your own blade and free hand while protecting your core and at the same time having the patience to wait until he makes a mistake is the mark of a true blade fighter.

The art of deception making the opponent commit himself and then using that to your advantage without hesitation is an objective and knowledge worth seeking. Not how to perform, but why one performs in any manner reacting to another where blades are concerned.

That "waiting" can be a split second in time, and timing is everything where blade work is concerned. Most won't understand the timing of the blades work or how to use it to their advantage and take any advantage the opponent has away from them in doing so.

Two true bladesmen will attempt to work these issues against each other. If one has this knowledge and the other does not, adversity and any disparity of force [ for instance each others blade lengths being used ] can be overcome.

It takes time to understand the blade, and gain the knowledge that's necessary to stay alive against a determined opponent increasing the odds in your favor. We haven't even delved into the mindset of blade use, that's another several volumes of books in and of itself.

Learning all of the possible ways a blade system [ short folders, long blades, edge in, edge out, reverse grip, etc ] one might see employed against you isn't something that happens in a few hours and is difficult to transmit to others on an internet forum in several posts.

Brownie
 

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Maybe its just me, but the part thats quoted is the most important part of learning the "Blade"

it's not what you know how to do with a blade, but how a blade can be used against you that brings you to the higher level of understanding what skills will be needed in such an encounter. It's this that most miss in their training and which Jim drove home in the training a lot while training with the various types of blades relative length and design as well as how they were being presented by the opponent.

The more you understand how one is presenting themselves to you with their blade and that dictating what can be done by them, the better you understand how to defend with your own blade. Most will concentrate on their own blade work in lieu of pursuing the understanding of how to effectively defeat an attack based on the way a blade is presented to your person by the opponent.

You can teach a monkey how to use a knife offensively in a short time, but developing the "sense" of how an opponent is presenting, how to short circuit his attempts with your own blade and free hand while protecting your core and at the same time having the patience to wait until he makes a mistake is the mark of a true blade fighter.

The art of deception making the opponent commit himself and then using that to your advantage without hesitation is an objective and knowledge worth seeking. Not how to perform, but why one performs in any manner reacting to another where blades are concerned.
 

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How could you bring a thread from 2009 with almost no replies?

You can teach a monkey how to use a knife offensively in a short time, but developing the "sense" of how an opponent is presenting, how to short circuit his attempts with your own blade and free hand while protecting your core and at the same time having the patience to wait until he makes a mistake is the mark of a true blade fighter.

The art of deception making the opponent commit himself and then using that to your advantage without hesitation is an objective and knowledge worth seeking. Not how to perform, but why one performs in any manner reacting to another where blades are concerned.

That "waiting" can be a split second in time, and timing is everything where blade work is concerned. Most won't understand the timing of the blades work or how to use it to their advantage and take any advantage the opponent has away from them in doing so.
I'm still struggling so bad on the bolded. Patience and waiting are not my strong suits.
 

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And he has the gall to BTTT:rofl
 

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And he has the gall to BTTT:rofl
What's the problem with that?
I believe it is always an informative subject and very useful for those interested in blades. At least I don't mind to read it over and over.
 

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Six replies in seven (7) years, of which two are by the OP.
 

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Six replies in seven (7) years, of which two are by the OP.
I asked about the replies because I thought they were deleted or something by the OP. There is a duplicate thread on this so maybe that was it but I guess the interest in the subject has changed, but mostly this is a reading post as I see it and not much to argue about it... unless you think there is?

Chuck, do you disagree with the thoughts in deployment as written here? I don't, and know more than a couple of guys here who don't disagree either. But this is a discussion forum, so if someone think differently they must post it so we can all learn a different point of view on the matter.

I would think that those who had trained on blades with Brownie would tend to agree with the OP, but I for one would be REALLY interested in reading opinions for others who had trained in blades under other instructors and/or have a different take on this... :dunno
 

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“That’s the trouble with that fool dog, always shootin’ his mouth off”
F. Leghorn
^^^^
This!

And in case someone was wondering, that isn't a reference to brownie but to the one that seems to almost always piss on any thread brownie posts in. Careful, your azz is showing! :smack
 

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I'm still struggling so bad on the bolded. Patience and waiting are not my strong suits.
To answer your question , a true blades man or blades woman, is very deceptive. What they show you is not what their intent is. Sword and dagger. Show you this while I stick with that.

You don't wait for opportunity to strike, You create one.

If you are always on the defensive, you will eventually lose...
 

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To answer your question , a true blades man or blades woman, is very deceptive. What they show you is not what their intent is. Sword and dagger. Show you this while I stick with that.

You don't wait for opportunity to strike, You create one.

If you are always on the defensive, you will eventually lose...
My point is that I struggle with timing in general. Opening [too soon], reaching too far or acting too fast. Those are limitations in knife fight. I guess they are better than being too slow. I did struggle the same in shooting and still have to work some on it... triggering too fast is a problem when your speed do not match. The correction there was a combination of trigger discipline with increasing speed. In knife, that's not it. I'm a "nervous" fighter, so I tend to reach [and be done with it]. The higher the adrenaline or the longest the fight, that's my undoing either way. Probably more [a lot more] sparring practice would help but the same way I had to work trigger discipline harder than sighting, this is what I have to work harder in knife.
 

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My point is that I struggle with timing in general. Opening [too soon], reaching too far or acting too fast. Those are limitations in knife fight. I guess they are better than being too slow. I did struggle the same in shooting and still have to work some on it... triggering too fast is a problem when your speed do not match. The correction there was a combination of trigger discipline with increasing speed. In knife, that's not it. I'm a "nervous" fighter, so I tend to reach [and be done with it]. The higher the adrenaline or the longest the fight, that's my undoing either way. Probably more [a lot more] sparring practice would help but the same way I had to work trigger discipline harder than sighting, this is what I have to work harder in knife.
Maybe adjust your mindset a little. Wait for the most opportune time (or make time)to step in and go to work, reaching exposes your core. Let the blade reach.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
What's the problem with that?
I believe it is always an informative subject and very useful for those interested in blades. At least I don't mind to read it over and over.
Thanks Barbie, the reason I BTTT'd it was given on the BTTT-- With all the blade threads here lately,. Since 09, we've got what, hundreds of new members who likely haven't gone back that far in date, perhaps the bring back gets more recent members thinking on the subject further, with all the blade threads being started here recently.
 

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Maybe adjust your mindset a little. Wait for the most opportune time (or make time)to step in and go to work, reaching exposes your core. Let the blade reach.
It is a mindset problem, all right :grin. I know that. But the only way to know if the correction has been really made is in practice.
That nice visualization technique a former forum member was always bringing up works wonder while typing :grin and if done correctly it brings great results in everything..... but we don't know the real results until we test it. :grin I tell myself to wait for the blade to reach, repeat and repeat, but again, the longest the wait and/or the higher the adrenaline, good intentions get flushed down. :(
 

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Thanks Barbie, the reason I BTTT'd it was given on the BTTT-- With all the blade threads here lately,. Since 09, we've got what, hundreds of new members who likely haven't gone back that far in date, perhaps the bring back gets more recent members thinking on the subject further, with all the blade threads being started here recently.
Personally, I have gone back and read many of the knife and defensive threads from before I joined the forum without BTTT. In knife specifically I have printed those related to steel qualities and manufacturing to re-reading again as references, but find myself without much to say in the matter. If I would have something to discuss I would bring it back, but I like the BTTTs. It works as reminders and lately my memory as need some jolting now and then.

Also I love to look with new eyes old stuff and re-check if my thoughts on the matter have evolved or stay the same. :dunno As opposed as others more knowledgeable not needing new thoughts, or too set on their ways not wanting new ideas, I'm willing to evolve. :grin I always say that my last moment will still be a learning experience when I can finally know if the light a the end of the tunnel is the light of heavens, the fire of hell or a freaking train coming my way... :rofl
 

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Great post Barb,

I like that light analogy at the end, no, not the tunnel :grin
:grin Well... I've seen the light a couple of times, but still I'm not sure of what it is... nor what I want it to be for that matter! I agree with S L Clemens... heaven for climate and hell for the company... but maybe the train without further ado might be better in my case, as the other two, both would present their own challenges. :grin
 

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This was made into a "Sticky" so members could review it at will.
 

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No one has to read any thread just because it's there, nor get one's knickers in a twist because of a BTTT, sticky or not. Don't want to read, a thread or post, then don't. Many of us, especially me, appreciate these BTTT of pertinent threads based on other threads being discussed.
 
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