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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Having something like 150 hours formal training with Jim Keating and another 50+ hours with Mike Janich, I've got a fair idea about the subject myself.

Deployment is always going to be a priority. If you can't access it quickly enough, you can't use it. Pretty simple, just like gun deployments, got to get it operational to be able to use it.

The subject of deployment under pressure could take volumes and several books to fully address the many possibilities available based on various blade configurations, how they are attached to your body [ clip, belt holster, etc ], reverse or saber grip, hammer grips, reverse grip deployment as well as where they are carried upon the person, how long the blade is, blah blah blah.

The use of the blade to defend oneself with would take another several books in the various grips used, their strengths and weaknesses, the systems developed using the various types of grips [ how one is holding the knife, not the knifes actual grip ], as well as the materials used in the grip materials, the various knife grip shapes, blah blah blah.

The length of the blades carried will determine it's strengths if one has the talent as well. For intance, I'll take a true fighting bowie who's blade is 10-12" long over any folder if I know I need to use a knife to defend, but I get to carry a straight blade that's 5" of cutting surface daily where I live and that will suffice. It suffices with different skills used than the 10-12" blades, and so do the small folders suffice but one has to understand how to use the smaller blades to their greatest strengths, and stay away from using it in a way that it's weaknesses are exposed.

The blade is used deceptively if one knows how to use it properly. One also needs to understand how to protect their core with a blade and make effective use of the off hand in concert with the live blade hand. Volumes of books could be written on this subject alone as well. In protecting the core, the blade has a primary job and a secondary job. The primary job is to protect your person, and the secondary is to cut the other guy when the opportunity presents itself based on the opponent making mistakes.

They can make mistakes on their own, or they can be forced to make mistakes to open their core to your blade. In primary roles of protecting your bodies core, it can simultaneously be used to attack and injure while doing so. The "dual" purpose of the blade becoming one objective when one has enough formal training and a thorough understanding of how to use the blades to effect the best defense and offense simultaneously. The high art of the blade, if you will, which most do not understand how to use properly.

Everyone has a "favorite" system of blade training with their personal favorites in knife design, length, locking system [ in the case of the folder ] etc. I personally think that is going to be somewhat narrow in scope for the true bladesman who wants a thorough understanding of the blade or who wants to be well rounded in scope when it comes to defending with a blade.

I mention the last as it's not what you know how to do with a blade, but how a blade can be used against you that brings you to the higher level of understanding what skills will be needed in such an encounter. It's this that most miss in their training and which Jim drove home in the training a lot while training with the various types of blades relative length and design as well as how they were being presented by the opponent.

The more you understand how one is presenting themselves to you with their blade and that dictating what can be done by them, the better you understand how to defend with your own blade. Most will concentrate on their own blade work in lieu of pursuing the understanding of how to effectively defeat an attack based on the way a blade is presented to your person by the opponent.

It's been quite a while since I've trained religiously with the blades as I used to, but this mental aspect I spoke of keeps the physical skills and reactions to others advances in the fore.

You can teach a monkey how to use a knife offensively in a short time, but developing the "sense" of how an opponent is presenting, how to short circuit his attempts with your own blade and free hand while protecting your core and at the same time having the patience to wait until he makes a mistake is the mark of a true blade fighter.

The art of deception making the opponent commit himself and then using that to your advantage without hesitation is an objective and knowledge worth seeking. Not how to perform, but why one performs in any manner reacting to another where blades are concerned.

That "waiting" can be a split second in time, and timing is everything where blade work is concerned. Most won't understand the timing of the blades work or how to use it to their advantage and take any advantage the opponent has away from them in doing so.

Two true bladesmen will attempt to work these issues against each other. If one has this knowledge and the other does not, adversity and any disparity of force [ for instance each others blade lengths being used ] can be overcome.

It takes time to understand the blade, and gain the knowledge that's necessary to stay alive against a determined opponent increasing the odds in your favor. We haven't even delved into the mindset of blade use, that's another several volumes of books in and of itself.

Learning all of the possible ways a blade system [ short folders, long blades, edge in, edge out, reverse grip, etc ] one might see employed against you isn't something that happens in a few hours and is difficult to transmit to others on an internet forum in several posts.

Any members have some SD blade training here?
Thoughts, comments on the above from anyone who would care to voice their opinion on the subject?
How many carry a folder or straight blade solely with SD in mind?
What kinds of blades are members carrying daily if they carry one?
What type of blade-----1/2 serrated? Full serrated? Plain edge?

Thanks for your time,

Stay sharp [ pun intended ] :D

Brownie
 

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...
Any members have some SD blade training here?
Thoughts, comments on the above from anyone who would care to voice their opinion on the subject?
How many carry a folder or straight blade solely with SD in mind?
What kinds of blades are members carrying daily if they carry one?
What type of blade-----1/2 serrated? Full serrated? Plain edge?

Thanks for your time,

Stay sharp [ pun intended ] :D

Brownie
No SD training on blades. Have always (from 5 or 6 years old when my grandfather gave me a little 1/2 inch knife) been intrigued with them but as I got a little older guns were more of an intrigue from the Daisy Red Ryder, to the Crossman 760 to the Marlin Model 60 22 and everything since then.

I do carry a folder with some thoughts of self defense in mind but more for a utility role than anything.

Your article above points to many a weakness that we all have especially if we carry knives with the intent of self defense. It's not like you can go to a range and deploy a knife the same way that you fire your guns. Training on deployment and the use of a knife are a must just as you allude to above. Very thought provoking post.

My everyday knife is a drop point 1/2 serated blade that I sharpen after every use. My dad always did that and I followed suit even if he peeled an apple. He would re-sharpen his knife.

Great thought provoking post. Thank you sir.
 

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Excellent post on defensive use of the knife. Defensive knife use is a rather specialized area and requires training and practice, including practice contests against live opponents. Many people do not realize this and, thus, are wholly unprepared to participate in a knife fight. Personally, I hate knife-to-knife combat. In the first place, I just don't like it. Second, I am not very good at it. And third, I rarely carry a proper knife for it. Personally, I always bring a gun to a knife fight.

Just to elaborate on this point are little bit, there are three basic ways a knife can be used: for utility, for killing and for defense. Each requires specialized skills and specialized equipment. One knife, or set of knife skills, will not do it all.

I carry two, a Victorinox Climber Swiss Army knife plain edge for general use and a Benchmade CQC-7 for heavier needs.
 

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I regularly carry a folder, and I do practice deploying it frequently. It's often carried on my support hand side, for various reasons.

An initial distracting or controlling motion, depending on range, to buy me that small space of time to access the blade would be ideal. Training the mindset to adapt if a folder's blade doesn't deploy as expected is essential. Know how the folded blade can be used, as a pain compliance tool, fist load, etc. My CRKT has 'Carson Flippers' with deep, sharp knurling that can easily be used to my advantage, should the blade fail to deploy. However, I have to have some training and practice to be able to instantly adapt to using the knife without the blade out, without having that mental, and ultimately, physical pause of "Oh crap...the blade didn't pop out."

If, for some reason, I can't get the blade to unclip from my pocket, I have to abandon that and move to something else, rather than get my butt handed to me while I fuss and fidget with the knife's pocket clip.

And I agree that knowing how a blade can be used against you is very important. As I've said elsewhere on the board: you wouldn't take a defensive driving course from someone who didn't know how to operate a car, why would you learn knife defense from someone who doesn't know how to use a blade?

Oy. Drove for hours this weekend. I think I'm babbling.

-JT
 

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I had a few hours of blade training back in 1970. Enough to know that I do not like to fight with a blade. I rarely go to places where I cannot carry a gun. My NAA Pug is my "blade" these days. I do have a lot of knives I bought over the last 50 years. First offerings from Cold Steel and Spyderco when not many heard of them. I like to carry a neck knife most times. Like my Cold Steel push daggers that I wear IWB on occasion. They are not my fighting knives. They are my let go of my gun knives. I like my knife from Nam. Gerber MKI or II. Don't remember. That is in a display case with my other Vietnam stuff. My favorite to carry on my belt is the original Cold Steel Tanto. The one that they used to demonstrate by punching it through a car door. It is the one in my Bug Out bag.

I do not like to be cut or to cut for some reason. That rather carry a baton. I have learned where to cut and stab; even how to walk past a person and slit their throat as you do so. Learned a little about using a knife to the neck to quit a sentry and a few other little things. Just never liked it.
 

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BTTT, with the latest couple of threads on the subject,
Thanks for that. Always good for a re-read, which I do go back to these old threads periodically as time permits. This one I think I last read in early 2014 and a biannual refresh is probably minimal for me because it's almost like reading it for the first time! :grin

ETA: Don't think I ever answered the questions at the end:

Q: Thoughts, comments on the above from anyone who would care to voice their opinion on the subject?
A: IMHO, the small amount of edged weapon training I've had is not nearly enough. I need a lot more to be confident of SD with an edged weapon. One area I have practiced a lot, though is in rapid deployment (see next question).

Q: How many carry a folder or straight blade solely with SD in mind?
A: Because of my AO right now, I cannot carry a fixed blade, but I do EDC a broken blade to be used only for SD purposes, which is clipped in my weak side front pocket. [I carry a smaller utility folder in my strong side front pocket. I try to practice rapid deployment of that EDC blade at least twice daily; once as I clip it in my pocket in the morning, and again to take it out of that pocket in the evening before bed. It takes me under a second from the decision to deploy using the one handed "pop" method some snake oil salesman showed me once. :grin

Q: What kinds of blades are members carrying daily if they carry one?
A: Current broken blade EDC is a Benchmade Griptilian. When I'm "home" in Florida, it's currently the KA-BAR but looking to move to an ESEE-5 or Spyderco Perrin Street Bowie in a Panther sheath, most likely the latter (prefer the clipped point)

Q: What type of blade-----1/2 serrated? Full serrated? Plain edge?
A: Not a fan of serrated edges and saws on my SD blade so I don't own any; plain edge for me.
 
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