[driver]

Okay. I went to college in NC and did not even have this option in the past. I plan to go back to law school in FL and have a theoretical question in light of the mass school shootings that have occurred in the past.

So I cannot conceal carry but I can keep guns in my car. What if someone starts shooting up the school? What should I do... what would you do? etc?

My every being tells me I would have to go back in and try to save at least one innocent life. The time it takes for a campus officer to show up could cost many lives. Also, an officer would not get as close to the psychopath. He would see them from a distance and run away. He would see me and think I am another sheep and just keep shooting who he is closest to. I would obviously call the cops on the way to my car to get the gun. Clearly the police are better trained and meant to get in there armed. I know I can legally use deadly force, but can I carry my gun onto the campus to use it for legal self defense of another?

Honestly, I would take the misdemeanor... I feel like a DA would have to look the other way anyhow and drop it.

I really just wish the damn legislature would realize that there are law abiding students willing to go through the trouble of legally carrying a firearm and would be able and willing to save countless lives (even though just one is all that matters).

 

[J T]

... can I carry my gun onto the campus ...?

Legally? Nope.

 

[MiklColt45]

Okay. I went to college in NC and did not even have this option in the past. I plan to go back to law school in FL and have a theoretical question in light of the mass school shootings that have occurred in the past.

So I cannot conceal carry but I can keep guns in my car. What if someone starts shooting up the school? What should I do... what would you do? etc?

My every being tells me I would have to go back in and try to save at least one innocent life. The time it takes for a campus officer to show up could cost many lives. Also, an officer would not get as close to the psychopath. He would see them from a distance and run away. He would see me and think I am another sheep and just keep shooting who he is closest to. I would obviously call the cops on the way to my car to get the gun. Clearly the police are better trained and meant to get in there armed. I know I can legally use deadly force, but can I carry my gun onto the campus to use it for legal self defense of another?

Honestly, I would take the misdemeanor... I feel like a DA would have to look the other way anyhow and drop it.

I really just wish the damn legislature would realize that there are law abiding students willing to go through the trouble of legally carrying a firearm and would be able and willing to save countless lives (even though just one is all that matters).

Now you're on the scene of a mass shooting with a gun in your hand.
You and it better go down on the ground FAST once LE arrives.

 

[driver]

Legally? Nope.

... I don't think the self-defense exemption for school grounds has a proximity rule. BUT, it only protects the exhibition of it, not the possession of it (its a two-part law)?

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec115.HTM

^^ however, with a concealed weapon's license it is a misdemeanor:
(e) The penalties of this subsection shall not apply to persons licensed under s. 790.06. Persons licensed under s. 790.06 shall be punished as provided in s. 790.06(12), except that a licenseholder who unlawfully discharges a weapon or firearm on school property as prohibited by this subsection commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Screw it... I would take a misdemeanor to save a life...

 

[driver]

Now you're on the scene of a mass shooting with a gun in your hand.
You and it better go down on the ground FAST once LE arrives.

For sure... If someone is in a uniform, I will drop the gun and hit the ground. I am scared of what will happen if I meet an off-duty officer though... I think he will notice the way I carry myself and realize I am another good guy (or I hope).

I don't want to be a cop or a hero... but I couldn't do NOTHING. That is not me...

 

[Al Lipscomb]

Many of the mass shootings are over in just a few minutes. By the time you get to your car, get your gun and head back in, things may be over. Even if you could get back in, are you going to be able to do some good or just become a distraction to first responders? Kind of a "do no harm" thing.

 

[driver]

I am in pretty good shape... In all seriousness, where I want to go to law school, I could be back on the scene in 3-4 minutes. I would be 100% compliant with LE... and it would be concealed unless I am in the presence of a bad guy. I am not a cop and I am not in a movie... I do not need to run around with the gun in my hand!

 

[OrlandoDriver]

Driver I understand where your coming from But what if someone else thinking the same thing you are and sees you or see the gun before you put it away and just shoots you thinking you are the bad guy? bad out come for you just something else to think about.

 

[driver]

Driver I understand where your coming from But what if someone else thinking the same thing you are and sees you or see the gun before you put it away and just shoots you thinking you are the bad guy? bad out come for you just something else to think about.

You are right... but I do not think I could sleep with myself if I did not do something.

I was kind of hoping some of you guys would say what you would actually do. On that note, the same can be said for any shootout... What about a bad guy in a mall executing people? Do you save other peoples' lives or do you run away with your gun because you might get shot? For me, I carry for self defense, but I do not think I can let innocent people be executed when I have a gun at my disposal.

 

[OrlandoDriver]

Hard to say til you are actually in that situation see its great to think of different scenerios but be ready to see a wide variety of variables its not the point of running away with your gun in hand things happen really fast.

Here in orlando at fashion square mall a lady was being mugged a guy with CCW just happened to walk up and shot the mugger worked out great doesn't always work out the way we want it i am just being realistic.

 

[driver]

Hard to say til you are actually in that situation see its great to think of different scenerios but be ready to see a wide variety of variables its not the point of running away with your gun in hand things happen really fast.

Here in orlando at fashion square mall a lady was being mugged a guy with CCW just happened to walk up and shot the mugger worked out great doesn't always work out the way we want it i am just being realistic.

I realize that.

My CCW instructor (this class is a joke btw) said if a woman was being assaulted he would walk away because he doesn't know... blah blah blah. That is not something I can walk away from... I know that we all react differently under stressful situations and you never know how things will go wrong. Nonetheless, deep in my soul... I think it is worth the risk.

I have a long story... that I don't feel like typing right now, but most people are very disappointing when it comes to helping your fellow man that is in dire need (especially in Europe). I do not understand those people... 75% of the general population become self-serving animals when the : censored hits the fan".

 

[Steve48]

My CCW instructor (this class is a joke btw) said if a woman was being assaulted he would walk away because he doesn't know... blah blah blah. That is not something I can walk away from... I know that we all react differently under stressful situations and you never know how things will go wrong. Nonetheless, deep in my soul... I think it is worth the risk.

I have a long story... that I don't feel like typing right now, but most people are very disappointing when it comes to helping your fellow man that is in dire need (especially in Europe). I do not understand those people... 75% of the general population become self-serving animals when the : censored hits the fan".

As I'm sure you realize, it's not just a matter of whether people are willing to get involved and help their fellow man. It's also a matter of being confident in their understanding of the situation- confident enough to risk making a mistake in the use of deadly force.

When you say "that is not something I can walk away from", I think you've answered your own original question. At least if a madman is blazing away at innocent people, you won't have much doubt about identifying the bad guy. Just be sure that you're equally certain if the situation is not so well defined.

 

[Al Lipscomb]

Your question is not one of "should I do something", but one of a particular course of action with set circumstances. While you may be able to sprint out to the car, grab the gun, get back inside, locate the still active shooter and end the crime, there are a lot of things working against this as a plan.

Of course the first thing you can do is consider writing a polite, well thought out letter to your representative in the State House, as well as your State Senator. Avoid the "Gun culture" lingo and express your concern that lawfully armed, licensed, adult students are prohibited from having access to their firearms for no logical reason. They are clearly targets and the school administration clearly has not made reasonable investments in proper security (for example most schools have a "lock down" plan but don't have door hardware designed to resist forced entry).

 

[Mac45]

Two part answer

First, if you get to your car, and arm yourself should you go back to help?
No one can advise you on that. You do what you feel you have to, in that situation, realizing that returning will likely result in your arrest or death. But think about this for a moment.

Are you sure of the identity of the shooter? How many are there, what do they look like and are you sure that you have identified all of them? Are there any bystanders in the building that are armed or have armed themselves by disarming a shooter? What are you going to look like to a responding LEO? Sure you intend to comply with LEO demands, but what do you think will happen if you turn toward the officer, gun in hand, to tell him you are on his side? How do you convince a bystander intent upon surviving this incident by beating you to death with chair that you are just trying to help him? Get the idea?

Your best bet, unless confronted by the gunman as he exits the building, is to flag down the first LEO you see and impart any and all information that you possess. Try to stay in contact with officers [you can usually spot a CP, even a temporary one, make for it and tell the officer (usually a sergeant, initially) there that you are a witness]. If you can identify the shooter, keep a sharp look out for him, and immediately point him out to officers if he exits the building. Remember, you may very well have intelligence that the police do not and they have the manpower, communications and training that you do not. You can compliment their activity on the scene immeasurably. Common sense, and a cool head, is all that is necessary not only to survive an active shooting incident, but to assist in its favorable resolution. Heroes are not only the ones with the guns.

 

[FloridaSon]

FWIW

CP = Command Post

 

[airhead]

For all intents an purposes, if you arm yourself and re-enter the building, you are "The Man With a Gun."

Call 911 and tell them you are re-entering - armed? Now the cops have a much harder time telling who the BG is - armed BG and armed GG in the building.

I would keep my gun concealed (pocket, jacket, holster, mexican, whatever.)
until I found the shooter. Then you are in a standup gunfight with someone probably better armed than you - you're armed with your SD gun and he has ??? and you don't know his training level.... Hopefully you can get the drop on him while he is concentraiting forward on his next victim/target.

Is there only one?

***

The lady at Libby's that stopped the mass shooter several years back. She waited until the BG was in range and then opened up on him. But she was armed. She was also pretty much dead if she did nothing.

 

[driver]

I am not going to go in there like I am on the SWAT team or something. I would keep it concealed until I was 100% sure I wanted to pull it out... just like any other time I am carrying.

 

[MiklColt45]

driver,

I think we all sense the frustration you (and most of us) have at these senseless killings and the inability to do something.

The problems, however, are myriad.

How do you know who is the shooter? What if you have spotted the off-duty LEO who just happened to be walking by when the first shots were fired, and now is creeping along with gun in hand, instead of the real shooter?

So, you call 911 and describe yourself. What if the dispatcher gets it wrong? Or doesn't give that information at all? And someone else has called in and now there are 2 men with guns?

How good a shot are you? Under pressure? With adrenaline flowing? How do you know? What training, etc., do you have?

I, too, am frustrated and sickened at the lack of ability to do much in many of these situations. Getting killed, or killing someone else, is not much of an outcome.

You do what you have to do. But, I think it would be a unique situation where I would wade in. I don't know for sure, 'til it happens, if it ever does. But, I suppose most of us don't know for sure what we would really do.

Just my $.02.

 

[driver]

Hey guys... I just realized you keep offering me thinking points and I just come back on here arguing with you why I should still do it.

Thank you for helping me brainstorm the issues a little better about how this could go wrong.

If it came down to it... I think it would depend on the police response. For example, if the cops were there I would just tell them everything I knew and hang back, I know I am not trained for something like this and I do not want to be a cop, hero, etc. However, if it is something like VT where the police response sucked... and I had actually seen the guy, or at least a glimpse, I would probably run to my car while calling the cops, and arm myself concealed... I do not know what would happen after that, but at least there would be an armed (but concealed) person among the sheep. I know that I could die and WOULD be arrested if I used the gun...

BTW, I do not think most of these guys spend much time at the range... they buy the guns just for this reason or get their parents' guns and shoot people at point blank range. They are only effective because school zones are about the most unsafe place you could be when it comes to shootings.

Edit: Okay, I just read the timeline for the VT shootings and while the police's handling of the initial shootings did "suck", the response to the second 911 call only took them 3 minutes to respond... so nevermind the VT example.

 

[deadeyedick]

The 'armed civilian vs. active shooter' topic has been debated ad nauseum on several other gun forums. I would say that if a mass shooting (mall, school, etc.) is taking place in your immediate presence (i.e., you can see the shooter) and you're already armed, then you may be able to alter the outcome of the situation, albeit at great personal risk, by engaging the BG.

In the situation you've described, however, where you are unarmed at the outset of the incident, then I think it would be foolhardy to re-enter the area in an effort to locate and engage the shooter. The best way to save lives in that situation is to help get as many people to safety as you can, IMO.

Besides, there are so many variables that it's virtually impossible to speculate what the "correct" course of action would be in advance, other than to get yourself to safety.