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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Wrote this in 2003, just found it so thought I'd share some thoughts on folders for our members and guests.

I have been asked for a description of what a fighting or tactical folder is. Lets start with definitions given for these words found in the American Heritage Dictionary.

Fight: To participate in combat; To contend with physically or in battle; To make ones way by or as if by combat; To quarrel or conflict and, A physical conflict between two or more individuals.

Tactical: Of or pertaining to tactic
Tactic: An expedient for achieving a goal; maneuver
Folder: One that folds

We can determine that a Fighting/Tactical folder would be a knife that folds as opposed to a straight blade; a knife that one may use physically in combat or battle; a folding knife used to achieve a goal [in this case, self defense].

From the common jackknife your grandfather carried [which did not have a locking mechanism to lock the blade in the open position] to the current genre of folders being manufactured by various companies and individual custom knife makers could all be considered under the right conditions to be a "Fighting/Tactical Folder".

Your grandfather's pocketknife could be considered a fighting/tactical folder if he used it to defend himself against an attack on his person. Would that old Uncle Henry folder with the nail nick in the blade he carried be the best tool for the task in this scenario? I would not think so, as that knife was not designed with these tasks in mind. It could be used in defense of ones person thereby making it, in this scenario, a fighting/tactical folder.

Various manufacturers and knife makers are constantly designing and redesigning their knives to enhance the ability to defend oneself from an aggressor. They are tasked with creating a folding knife that lends itself, through design and execution, to more effective means of defending ones person. Some form of criteria must be established which acts as a guideline for their fighting/tactical folders.

The criteria could be the designer's idea of what this type of tool should look like and what materials should be used. It could also be input from martial artists who have some background in defensive knife techniques. Each maker uses a different set of criteria that he or she feels is more important to the task of defense.

My own criteria for a Tactical/Fighting folder will probably differ from yours. What I want in a folder for its intended purpose may not fit what you feel is critical for you. Hence, we have numerous models to choose from making the selection process more difficult.

The following is the order of importance [for myself] when it comes to selecting a folding knife that I may use to defend myself from an attack. These may not be in the order you would choose and that's why we have the array of products on the market today which we can choose from.

My criteria from most important to least important:

1. The locking mechanism and the materials it is made from
2. The steel used for the blade and the Rockwell hardness of that steel
3. The ability to access the knife with either hand in an emergency
4. Handle material and grip shape
5. Blade design

The reasons behind my choices of most important attributes in a fighting folder:

1. The locking mechanism on a folder has to be strong so that under extreme use the lock does not fail. If I am to carry the folder with personal defense in mind I want the blade locking mechanism to be the strongest I can find. All other concerns are useless unless the knife can be depended on to stay locked open and not collapse onto my tender fingers. [If they weren't tender at the start they sure would be once they were stumps from the blade collapsing under stress].
2. Once we are confident that the lock won't fail, we are set to the task of which steel to have the blade made from. I want steel that can be hand sharpened easily. A steel that won't be brittle but has been heat treated properly for that particular alloy. I am not concerned with whether the steel is stainless or not as this is a personal defense weapon and will be carried always and probably never used for it's intended purpose. I have the luxury of time to care properly for the steel and will have the necessary tools to keep it at razor blade sharp.
3. If the first two criteria are met we next want to be able to access the tool of choice with no delays. If the knife is there for possible defense and you can not access it immediately it is useless. I want my defensive folder to have a pocket clip so that I can attach it to my pocket or waistline for immediate access in an emergency.
4. Handle material is a matter of personal choice. I make decisions on handle material based on how slippery the handle becomes when my hands are wet. Handle shape? I prefer the grips to have a flat profile instead of rounded grip design. You will certainly have your own preference and I do not profess one over the other to anyone. Personal choice based on your own experiences will serve you well without my interjecting here. What works for me may not work as well for you.
5. Blade designs are too numerous to list here or explain the benefits or detractions of each. As I have stated earlier in this article knives and their design are a personal preference. What you like I may not consider and what I like you may not. I tend to stay with the clip point blades in non-serrated guise for my defensive needs.

The best defense knife I could own would be one that meets my defensive criteria above and that feels comfortable in my hand to start. Some have the best materials and locks yet do not "feel" right for some reason. Others may be minimally acceptable as to materials but just feel "right" for my hand.

Just carrying a folding knife for defense does not mean you will be able to access it in time to defend yourself or be able to escape injury. You will need to practice your defensive skills sets in "the draw drills" until you can access and open the knife one handed in less than 1 second from your preferred carry position. This is not as difficult as it seems. What most people find difficult is allocating the time necessary to become proficient with their chosen tool for self-defense.

You can have the most expensive fighting folder made on your person when troubles arise and without the knowledge base and skills sets from practicing and training for such possible encounters you may as well be carrying nothing.

Brownie
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Brownie, is there a tactical folder(s) that you would recommend under the $100 range?

TIA,
Lew
Spyderco Endura, it's a lockback design which is one of the strongest locking systems on a folder. It's blade 3 7/8" long, with a fine point and the steel takes a very keen edge and maintains it very well. Thin so it's unobtrusive in the pocket and Zytel handled so it's light and hardly noticed carrying it.

Learn how to perform the "Brownie Pop" and it comes from the "pocket to point" in a blink of the eye and is ready for duty.

http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=2404

Brownie
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think you'll like that knife a lot. The VG10 blade steel is one of my all time favorite steels from any company. Takes an aggressive edge. I sharpen my VG10 blades with the course Spyderco stones instead of taking the edge to a fine razor blade edge.

Let us know how you like the blade when you get it.

Brownie
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm surprised we haven't seen more responses from members on the subject of folding knives here.

Is it that most members don't carry a folding knife on their person daily?

Brownie
 

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I carry a CRKT M16-14SFA. I like it for several reasons:

  • When closed, it makes a nice fist load
  • When using it as a fist load, the "Carson Flipper" extensions make nice pressure point attackers
  • The serrations on the "Carson Flipper" extenstions are good for scraping when the closed knife is used as a fist load.
  • Open or closed, their is a nice point on the pommel that is a good striking tool
  • LAWKS feature helps keep the blade from closing due to liner-lock failure
  • Tanto-style blade
  • The "Carson Flipper" hilt allows for blade opening on the draw
  • The clip can be placed in several different locations. I currently have mine set up for support hand (left side) draw.

-JT
 

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I carry a CKRT M-16 10KZ and another no name knife. The CKRT is a tanto pointed knife. The other knife is my utility knife for cutting cord, tape, etc. I a knife mainly as a diversion. The BGs attention will more than likely be focused on the knife (weak side) and not realize that they are at gunpoint (strong side) as well.
 

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I have this knife, which I built from a kit. I put black graphite scales on it, instead of the cocobolo wood shown, so it's sexier.

http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/product_info.php?cPath=1_13&products_id=20

I've always been a bit afraid of the "folding" part of a folder - as you say, my fingers would be rather tender once they're half size. :laughing

It has a button lock, so it's more secure than one that is just pushed on - sideways or another twist - before folding. Is there some sort of test I could do that would tell me if it would hold up to the stress? How do I do that and maintain my fingers, should it fail?

You can tell, I'm pretty green at this stuff. :D



BobL
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
BobL,

Perform a spine whack test for a folders locking strength is one method. Using a heavy glove, lock the folder open and hit the back of the opened blade against a hard object. If the lock survives several whacks, it will likely hold up to stress on the lock under use.

There's also the lateral stress test of the lock. Put the lock in a vise [ protecting the blade of course ] and twist the handle laterally while trying to disengage the lock. If it holds up under moderate lateral stress testing, it's probably going to be good to go on the streets when you need it.

Opinions vary, but most will agree the lockback locking mechanism can be one of the strongest locks on a folder one can get at a fair price without spending a lot of money.

Brownie
 

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Brownie,


Thanks for the ideas. I have a very thick glove that I figured should protect me, and whacked it very hard on my workbench. :thumsup No problems.

The same kit knife company also makes several lockback folders, although I didn't know to look for it until yesterday. I might make one of those, too. It's not hard to build these things, with a little woodworking or metalworking ability, and it's a fun weekend project.


BobL
 

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I carry an SOG Flash2 with me every day. When I bought it I thought it was pretty neat to have an assisted folder. It's a good pocket knife and does everything I could ask it to on a daily basis. However, I quickly discovered that it has a lock on it to prevent it from opening in your pocket. The first time I took it out and it wouldn't open and I had to mess with the lock I realized this is unacceptable for a tactical folder. Looks like I need to carry another knife that is just a tactical folder along with the SOG.

The Spyderco Endura looks like it would be good. I didn't know you can buy a decent tactical folder for such a reasonable price. Looking around on some other forums it seemed like the knives they were suggesting were all much more expensive. In the $200-$300 range and that's not quite in the budget!
 

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Brownie,

I received the Spyderco Endura several days ago after ordering it on-line. You were right, it is a great folder. It is very well built! :thumsup I was very impressed with the thickness of the blade and sturdiness of the locking mechanism. This knife has the exact dimensions that I have been looking for to serve as an EDC. It's a great knife at a great price! It only cost me $45 at this site: http://www.botachtactical.com/spydercoendura.html

Thanks again, sir, for the great advice!
Lew
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for the update BlueLew, glad to hear you find the knife to your liking.

I carried one many years ago and it served well. The lock back mechanism is a proven strong lock.

Brownie
 

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I've only carried a pocket knife and never for self defense, so I'm looking at different websites and see knives from 40 bucks to 400. Kind of amazing and overwhelming at the same time.

I see folding mentioned, but I've seen on websites that they have automatic opening knives? Is there an advantage or disadvantage to an auto opening knife? I would tend to think that practice (with any weapon) would be needed regardless of if it opens with a switch or with your own technique (brownie pop).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Teter09,

I believe there is are both advantages and disadvantages to every form of folding knife.

I prefer lock backs for their lock strength and longevity under lateral stresses applied during use which other locks like liner-locking mechanisms are weaker in.

I also prefer to not have a folding knife that relies on a spring system to deploy the blade and though I own several of them from different makers, I don't carry them with defense in mind but more for their collectable investment.

I've trained long and hard enough to be able to open a folder faster than an auto with either hand with the Brownie Pop. Most people won't recognize the advantage of the folder in the BUK role nor take the necessary steps to train with an edged weapon long enough to be able to make full use of that tool in the BUK role.

The Lake Mary class in June will be covering the defensive edged tool in the BUK role, ways to deploy under stress and several basic skills in using the tool to their advantage if and when they ever have need to use their folder/straight blade defensively.

Brownie
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
inkedott,

Striders are overpriced but serious business knives made of great steel and heat treated properly. I've never owned one of their fixed blades but have had two of their folders in the past.

Nice choice in fixed blade sir. :drinks

Brownie
 

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Just personal preference, but I don't like folders for self defense. I prefer either a fixed dagger type blade or an automatic. For me what's most important is that the knife is well made and can be deployed on a BG without cutting the hell out of myself. A lot of knives, again in my opinion, lack adequate protection in the handle to prevent major cuts to your hand when used for defense.
 
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