[Vern]

Just a thought, why not a list of all the Florida AND Federal places that are "off-limits"? Plus put in there that just because a sign is posted, and it's not on the "list", stating "No Firearms" it doesn't mean you are legally not allowed to carry there, but if asked to leave do it "at an expediant pace". And I don't mean a copy and paste from the regulation. Im looking more for a real simple "Police Station, Court, K-12 Schools" kind of list. I'm just lookin' for stuff that is more helpful to the folks looking into getting a CHL. We could call it "Where Can I Carry" or something of that nature. Maybe even get advanced as to list the name & address in XXXXXX County. It would take some time. I know, at least in my world, there are places on the "list" I rarely go more than once a year if at all. Then there are other places(Federal buildings/property) I'm in all the time.

I got the idea for this when I was talking to my old man about a CHL and he made the comment, "Why, you can't really take it with you anywhere." So, now it's time to make the uneducated a real simple, black and white, list of places you cannot take your firearm. I know some people I have spoken to are really surprised about where you CAN take your concealed firearm.

Just a thought.

Vern

 

[frank305]

Bump?

Hospitals, Local & Federal Government Buildings..

 

[NkmG19]

Bump?

Hospitals, Local & Federal Government Buildings..

I'm confused about hospital carry. Does the laws specifically say that you can't carry in a hospital?

 

[OrlandoDriver]

I'm confused about hospital carry. Does the laws specifically say that you can't carry in a hospital?

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0394/SEC458.HTM&Title=->2003->Ch0394->Section%20458


The 2008 Florida Statutes

Title XXIX
PUBLIC HEALTH Chapter 394
MENTAL HEALTH View Entire Chapter

394.458 Introduction or removal of certain articles unlawful; penalty.--

(1)(a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage which causes or may cause an intoxicating effect;

2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or

3. Any firearms or deadly weapon.

(b) It is unlawful to transmit to, or attempt to transmit to, or cause or attempt to cause to be transmitted to, or received by, any patient of any hospital providing mental health services under this part any article or thing declared by this section to be contraband, at any place which is outside of the grounds of such hospital, except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of such hospital.

(2) A person who violates any provision of this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

History.--s. 1, ch. 75-253; s. 201, ch. 77-147; s. 1, ch. 77-174; s. 6, ch. 96-169.

Referencing florida firearms law according to F.S.790.25 should be considered authurized by law to have your weapon securly encased in your vehicle.

now under FS 790.06(12) doesn't list hospitals but i wouldn't want to be a test case.

12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

I guess i would just lock it up in my car in a secure locked case to be safe.

 

[NkmG19]

now under FS 790.06(12) doesn't list hospitals but i wouldn't want to be a test case.

This is where I was looking and totally missed the other section. Thanks for posting this.

I guess i would just lock it up in my car in a secure locked case to be safe.

I will certainly do that if I go to the hospital.

 

[frank305]

Ive been in most of the hospitals in south florida, they all have a "No Firearms" sign. Since I see it at every hospital, I assume it's a general thing. Ill ask some LEO's I know..

 

[clippermiami]

Seems fairly clear to me ...

3. Any firearms or deadly weapon.

(b) It is unlawful to transmit to, or attempt to transmit to, or cause or attempt to cause to be transmitted to, or received by, any patient of any hospital providing mental health services

While I realize that I speak English and not Lawyer and I could be wrong but if you aren't a mental health patient, or try to give a mental health patient,a gun why would you not be able to carry --- aside from hospital policy that is but not a violation of law.

 

[MamaBear]

I guess i would just lock it up in my car in a secure locked case to be safe.

The part I don't like about this is that once the firearm is secure in my car that means I have to go through the parking lot/garage feeling totally vulnerable and unprotected in order to enter the hospital to do my visiting.

While I understand the reasons that certain places are off limits it still doesn't make me feel any safer when the time comes for me to cross a parking lot even in broad daylight.


MamaBearto2

 

[OrlandoDriver]

The part I don't like about this is that once the firearm is secure in my car that means I have to go through the parking lot/garage feeling totally vulnerable and unprotected in order to enter the hospital to do my visiting.

While I understand the reasons that certain places are off limits it still doesn't make me feel any safer when the time comes for me to cross a parking lot even in broad daylight.


MamaBearto2

I understand what you mean if your coming out of orlando regional your first in a not so safe zone,florida hospital east not so bad as they have security everywhere but i would still carry some alternative not on thier list florida east atleast not to far from main building but parking lot getting bigger.funny how we have to observe the laws but the BG doesnt.Funny how its put firearm or deadly weapon wow leaves very little options

 

[nandin]

I work in a hospital and I'd be damned if I'm going all the way to my car to get my gun.
"Test Case", no more than anybody else in Big Brother's House

 

[Outrider]

Are you positive about local government, I thought it was just durring a meeting of local goverment I carry when I go to the county tax office to pay taxes get plates renew drivers lic????

 

[henryher]

I worked for the FL DEP for 15 years and was involved in rule making. I would think that if Chapter 394 is applicable to Conceal Weapons and Firearms License it would be listed under Chapter 790.06. Just like section 823 is listed. I will try to contact the DACS and see if I can get an answer from them on that.


I just added this thread it has the list in simple, by my simple mind, form. It also contains all the links I could manage to find for conceal carry in Florida and some that may be pertinent.

http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=662

 

[Glock23-4-Me]

I worked for the FL DEP for 15 years and was involved in rule making. I would think that if Chapter 394 is applicable to Conceal Weapons and Firearms License it would be listed under Chapter 790.06. Just like section 823 is listed. I will try to contact the DACS and see if I can get an answer from them on that.


I just added this thread it has the list in simple, by my simple mind, form. It also contains all the links I could manage to find for conceal carry in Florida and some that may be pertinent.

http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=662

Any update on this. I agree with henryher that it stands to reason if it applied to concealed carry it would be in 790.06 (now is your chance to chime in TampaSsgt). Did you get a reply from DACS??

 

[Speve]

hospitals are not federal buildings, nor are they state run

most hospitals are actually privately run institutions
therefore, i do not understand why people say you cannot carry there as defined by 790.06

 

[Glock23-4-Me]

guess this kind of answers my own question.

394.458 Introduction or removal of certain articles unlawful; penalty.--

(1)(a) Except as authorized by law...............................


790.06 would be that law that authorizes concealed carry.

 

[T.S.]

As OrlandoDriver posted earlier, if the hospital provides mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital any firearms or deadly weapon.

Trust me, I don't like it. A while back ago I had to take MrsTampaSsgt to the ER in the middle of the night. As I pulled up to the door, I spotted the sign. I dropped her off at the door, drove to a space in the parking lot, then I had to take my 1911 off and lock it into my trunk and walk across the darkly lit parking lot in the middle of the night unarmed. :thumbsdwn

http://www.flsenate.gov/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0394/SEC458.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch0394->Section%20458#0394.458

The 2008 Florida Statutes

Title XXIX
PUBLIC HEALTH Chapter 394
MENTAL HEALTH

394.458 Introduction or removal of certain articles unlawful; penalty.--

(1)(a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage which causes or may cause an intoxicating effect;

2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or

3. Any firearms or deadly weapon.

(b) It is unlawful to transmit to, or attempt to transmit to, or cause or attempt to cause to be transmitted to, or received by, any patient of any hospital providing mental health services under this part any article or thing declared by this section to be contraband, at any place which is outside of the grounds of such hospital, except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of such hospital.

(2) A person who violates any provision of this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

History.--s. 1, ch. 75-253; s. 201, ch. 77-147; s. 1, ch. 77-174; s. 6, ch. 96-169.

I assume this is to prevent a "mentally challenged" individual from taking a firearm away from someone and using it to harm or kill staff or patients.

This mentions nothing about Florida Concealed Weapon License holders being exempt, and since it carries a felony of the third degree, I shall not be a test case anytime in the future.

 

[T.S.]

guess this kind of answers my own question.

394.458 Introduction or removal of certain articles unlawful; penalty.--

(1)(a) Except as authorized by law...............................


790.06 would be that law that authorizes concealed carry.

Glock23-4-Me, I didn't see your post before I posted mine above ....

You bring up an interesting point. I am not sure if the Florida Concealed Weapon License would be considered "Except as authorized by law .. "?

I think that would have to be answered by a lawyer.

Does Mr. Gutmacher have an opinion or write anything about this?

 

[Glock23-4-Me]

I dont understand crap like this. as part of the licensing process you have to state that you have read and are familar with fs 790. How can we be required to know every statute out there if there is no reference to them in fs 790 which applies to us. I would never have read the other statute because I would have had no reason to.

 

[T.S.]

I dont understand crap like this. as part of the licensing process you have to state that you have read and are familar with fs 790. How can we be required to know every statute out there if there is no reference to them in fs 790 which applies to us. I would never have read the other statute because I would have had no reason to.

Exactly! :thumsup

 

[SGB]

CAN YOU CARRY AT A HOSPITAL?

LEGAL Q&A

This is a revised update by Mr. Gutmacher of a recent article from his monthly magazine column, The Legal Corner
CAN YOU CARRY AT A HOSPITAL?
© 2006 by Jon H. Gutmacher

Florida Statute § 394.458 states “except as authorized by law” it is a third degree felony (yeah – felony!) for any person to bring, carry, possess, or transport a “firearm or other dangerous weapon” upon the grounds of any “hospital (or mental health facility) providing mental health services”. Here’s the actual wording:

(1) (a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage . . . .
2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or
3. Any firearms or deadly weapon”.

I just handled an arrest involving this statute. I raised the defense that the phrase “except as authorized by law” meant just that – and that securely encased weapons in vehicles on hospital grounds were therefore legal, pursuant to Florida Statute 790.25, and that persons having a Concealed Weapons Permit were also authorized because Florida Statute 790.06(12) lists all the places you can’t carry pursuant to your permit – and a hospital or mental health facility isn’t one of them. Thus you’re obviously “authorized by law”.

Now, the State Attorney agreed with me in the case I was handling – and dropped the prosecution. However, there is no binding appellate decision on this issue, and therefore, no guarantee you couldn’t get arrested, and become the next “test case”. Just because I’m sure my interpretation is correct doesn’t mean that the rest of the world will. Likewise, the “law according to Gutmacher” isn’t quite the same thing as an Opinion by an appellate court which is binding across the State. So -- maybe some caution isn’t such a bad idea?

I therefore would suggest that carrying inside a hospital or mental health facility pursuant to your CWP should be reserved for very special instances. Likewise, if any one knows you’re carrying, and tells the police or a security guard - I would suggest you be more than accommodating in offering to leave immediately if they feel you’re illegal, or just don’t want you there. Remember -- even if my interpretation is correct -- they still have the right to tell you to leave under trespass laws, no matter what the actual law is. So just get the heck out while you have the chance. If you get into any type of situation where you’re actually taken into custody, politely suggest to the officers that because you have a CWP, you’re not acting illegally. They’ll probably ignore you – but who knows? Can’t hurt!

Anyway, that’s my spin on this statute. Keep safe.
Mr. Gutmacher is a practicing trial attorney, was a felony prosecutor, police legal advisor, is an NRA certified firearms instructor, the author of the book Florida Firearms -- Law, Use & Ownership, has appeared on national broadcast network TV's NightLine, and primarily practices in the area of criminal law throughout the state with an emphasis on weapon related offenses, all felonies, as well as representing clients in ATF investigations, FFL license revocations, NICS database errors, expunctions, and select civil cases including defamation, false arrest, and malicious prosecution. His office is in Orlando, and comments or questions can be addressed via email (office{at}floridafirearmslaw[dot]com).

This column is not rendered as legal advice. If you have a specific factual situation that affects you, an attorney skilled in this area should be consulted. Return to Legal Q&A list

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