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Discussion Starter · #41 · (Edited)
For the record...in close quarters the pattern from a shotgun is seldom more than the size of a fist...anyone thinking a shotgun makes hitting something easy is mistaken...I understand this was about capacity...but it's worth bringing up when shotguns are mentioned...
This is Understood my friend . I used the word 'Spray' Errantly as I should have Stated 'Erratic' & Very Very hard to control , Especially him using 00 Buck ! ! - Thus The 'Erratic Result' IMO ..

That is IF it didn't flip up on Him , Due to It's Very Short length . 'Erratic' also meaning Not Really hitting All in One Fist Size Spot , even in close quarters , Not with that Contraption !..No Arguments Here 'G' ;) (y)(y)
 
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Discussion Starter · #42 · (Edited)
Gif from video game Call of Duty. Claymore is infrared and remotely triggered. But you have to have enough kills and points to earn the ability to add them to your load out. 馃槈
Gotcha ! LOL - I kinda thought so , as my Intent was to inquire about Serious Real Life Scenarios . my Bad IF My Post Title was Not Clear Enough . ;)(y) 'G'
 
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Discussion Starter · #43 · (Edited)
I wouldn鈥檛 use a shottie for in home defense & I have 5 of em. I鈥檒l grab the Glock off the nightstand & get to the safe & grab a couple more Glocks & probably a 1911 & probably the sub2k as it鈥檚 the first longer gun when I open the door. I鈥檇 rather patch holes with a putty knife than need sheets of drywall!! A .40 don鈥檛 take out plumbing, electrical, framing, & sheet rock with one trigger pull, like a damn 12 gauge does!
Understood also .. You may Not have the Time to go Into Any Safe at all .Your Glock , 'Yes ' .. IF using the **recommended # 7 1/2 shot , not any major damage to any structure .

A .40 Cal will definitely go clean through sheetrock all by Itself..It is not the case of Patching up holes in Sheetrock, But Rather Killing / Maiming someone on the Other side ! Size #7 1/2 , Not so much compared to & Will definitely Stop an Intruder at Close Range

**Many experts on Shotguns used inside , absolutely call for those size pellets . As you stated , The size of a Fist Then Magnified by the amount of pellets hitting in that small of an area . Opinions of course may vary . I am Not Here To Argue The Point with You Sir .. Thank You (y)(y) 'G'
 

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To me they are just too cumbersome for inside. I have 55 rounds on tap for the G27 next to me, I don鈥檛 really need to make it to the safe, hopefully. I know the #7 1/2 idea, didn鈥檛 see much mention of anything other than #4 on up, that鈥檚 where the sheets of drywall came cause & a OO or a #4, damn sure ain鈥檛 stopping at one wall. People need to really realize the backstop when in confined areas, ain鈥檛 just what鈥檚 in front of you in that room 鈥.. I damn sure don鈥檛 wanna hit the fridge full of beer either!!
 

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I wouldn鈥檛 use a shottie for in home defense & I have 5 of em. I鈥檒l grab the Glock off the nightstand & get to the safe & grab a couple more Glocks & probably a 1911 & probably the sub2k as it鈥檚 the first longer gun when I open the door. I鈥檇 rather patch holes with a putty knife than need sheets of drywall!! A .40 don鈥檛 take out plumbing, electrical, framing, & sheet rock with one trigger pull, like a damn 12 gauge does!
So here is a difference of opinion.

You have a total, in most 12g pump shotguns, of 6-9 rnds. 2 if you go old school.

If you aim and hit CM, 00 won't over penetrate. A slug that hits CM shouldn't over penetrate, if it does it has had a significant reduction in speed and associated force. I've used 12g 000\00 and slugs in a variety of situations and the only time over penetration with slugs occurred was with headshots, and considering the situation, it was a plus.

With only 6-9 rnds at the ranges of an indoor urban environment, why would you aim at the plumbing?

I can't imaging that spraying and praying with 12g rnds would be anyone's idea of a good thing.

Just like it wouldn't be a good idea spraying and praying with a handgun or a semi auto rile.

That said, there are a lot of reasons people choose to not use shotguns as their home defense primary.

I choose to do so. I take mine out, load it with 00 and slugs before I go to sleep at night, unload it every morning, and secure both before heading out the door.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
To me they are just too cumbersome for inside. I have 55 rounds on tap for the G27 next to me, I don鈥檛 really need to make it to the safe, hopefully. I know the #7 1/2 idea, didn鈥檛 see much mention of anything other than #4 on up, that鈥檚 where the sheets of drywall came cause & a OO or a #4, damn sure ain鈥檛 stopping at one wall. People need to really realize the backstop when in confined areas, ain鈥檛 just what鈥檚 in front of you in that room 鈥.. I damn sure don鈥檛 wanna hit the fridge full of beer either!!
Understood My Friend ! Yes The Beer Is Very Important , Agreed (y)馃嵑馃嵑馃嵑馃嵑 'G'
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
So here is a difference of opinion.

You have a total, in most 12g pump shotguns, of 6-9 rnds. 2 if you go old school.

If you aim and hit CM, 00 won't over penetrate. A slug that hits CM shouldn't over penetrate, if it does it has had a significant reduction in speed and associated force. I've used 12g 000\00 and slugs in a variety of situations and the only time over penetration with slugs occurred was with headshots, and considering the situation, it was a plus.

With only 6-9 rnds at the ranges of an indoor urban environment, why would you aim at the plumbing?

I can't imaging that spraying and praying with 12g rnds would be anyone's idea of a good thing.

Just like it wouldn't be a good idea spraying and praying with a handgun or a semi auto rile.

That said, there are a lot of reasons people choose to not use shotguns as their home defense primary.

I choose to do so. I take mine out, load it with 00 and slugs before I go to sleep at night, unload it every morning, and secure both before heading out the door.
Understood as well ! As they say : 'Whatever floats your boat' . Do what You Think is the Best option for such a situation . Thanks 'G' (y)(y)(y)
 
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Take my shotgun class and figure out what you know and don鈥檛 know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 · (Edited)
Take my shotgun class and figure out what you know and don鈥檛 know.
Mr. bttbbob , IF you are addressing this to Me , I Only wanted to know What Other members Might say & Do respectively with Shotguns for Home Defense . This is / was just an Inquiry for my own Inquisitiveness .

*Personally I do not use any of my [ 7 ] different Shotties . Most are collectables and family Guns . If an invasion with time restraints happens , they would be my last choice.

Reason being , Extremely handy to me , i have my [ 2 ] Primary weapons with a total of [ 65 ] rounds . They are lighter , shorter , quicker and much more firepower to access . My Hyper vigilance is a Huge Advantage ..

I have been Conditioned over my [ 55 ] years , with limited time to employ lethal firepower IMO .. At [ 77 ] now , waaay to old to start changing the way I would respond to any intruder , especially a shotgun IMO .

Yes I may be one of the odd ones out , But Satisfied and Kool Under pressure and Fire as well . If deploying my lethal ordinance , I can guarantee I would feel Nothing as an after effect. Thanks Though ;) (y) 'G'
 
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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
BTDT! 馃 (y)(y)
Mr. BH - I do not know your background & what you used growing up re hunting or Skeet / Trap shooting . I started at age [ 14 ] for my hunting license .

I was alerted to the Defensive use after or about in my 30's . This On and Off Thereafter. It is common for some people to not have been exposed to Combat or 'Conflicts' as they were called . This by their Military choices and MOS's .

May I inquire at what age did you opt to go for training with a shotgun ? Possibly later in life , when You may have purchased such a firearm ? I grew up with primarily shotguns in the attic , at around age 14 - 15 . Hunting Only ..

Then hunting in the PRNJ not too long afterwards , as that was only what was allowed . I think it's very wise to get comfortable with such a firearm , especially IF
employing said firearm in a Possible Life /Death situation . My Best (y) (y) 'G'
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Yep鈥. I took said class.


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Excellent Choice Mr Caleb ! I would advise anyone who is going to depend on there lives , using that type of Firearm .. It should cover all types of safe use , and what shells would be advisable to get comfortable with etc. etc.

This being just as , if not more important than just pulling the trigger . Scenarios for using inner house items for protecting yourself and knowing exactly where other's might be in the line of fire . Always be Safe than Sorry . Congrat's 'G'
 

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Mr. BH - I do not know your background & what you used growing up re hunting or Skeet / Trap shooting . I started at age [ 14 ] for my hunting license .

I was alerted to the Defensive use after or about in my 30's . This On and Off Thereafter. It is common for some people to not have been exposed to Combat or 'Conflicts' as they were called . This by their Military choices and MOS's .

May I inquire at what age did you opt to go for training with a shotgun ? Possibly later in life , when You may have purchased such a firearm ? I grew up with primarily shotguns in the attic , at around age 14 - 15 . Hunting Only ..

Then hunting in the PRNJ not too long afterwards , as that was only what was allowed . I think it's very wise to get comfortable with such a firearm , especially IF
employing said firearm in a Possible Life /Death situation . My Best (y) (y) 'G'
Gunner, I took Bob's Defensive Shotgun course earlier this year after I'd bought a Mossberg 590 Persuader that appeared in my LGS last November, but I've owned a Mossberg 500 with both a hunting length, interchangeable choked barrel and an 18 inch smoothbore slug barrel for almost 40 years. I purchased that shottie when I was in college (and therefore little disposable cash) as an all-around shotgun. However, never did much hunting.

My introduction to shotguns was when a buddy in a sister squadron took me to the skeet range when I was stationed in England. He was an excellent skeet coach and in my first ever round of skeet I hit 24 out of 25 clays with a Winchester 101! Became an NRA Shotgun Instructor under Bob's tutelage a few years ago to increase my knowledge and Instructor qualifications.

Always intended to do a lot more sport shooting and branching out into trap and then sporting clays, but other hobbies always took my spare time, especially raising three kids starting later in life than most (oldest born when I was turning 40)! :unsure:
 

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Mr. BH - I do not know your background & what you used growing up re hunting or Skeet / Trap shooting . I started at age [ 14 ] for my hunting license .

I was alerted to the Defensive use after or about in my 30's . This On and Off Thereafter. It is common for some people to not have been exposed to Combat or 'Conflicts' as they were called . This by their Military choices and MOS's .

May I inquire at what age did you opt to go for training with a shotgun ? Possibly later in life , when You may have purchased such a firearm ? I grew up with primarily shotguns in the attic , at around age 14 - 15 . Hunting Only ..

Then hunting in the PRNJ not too long afterwards , as that was only what was allowed . I think it's very wise to get comfortable with such a firearm , especially IF
employing said firearm in a Possible Life /Death situation . My Best (y) (y) 'G'
I started learning shotguns when I was 12. Started harvesting deer with slugs and duck with shot in the Adirondacks when I was 13. I earned expert rating with shotguns, and I made use of a mossberg 500 in various ways while in country later.

Started using 12g again when I left the service to harvest deer and remove wild hogs.

I took Bobs class. I had recently dislocated my left shoulder and something about the forward stock push exasperated the issue, but his shoot from the hip was 'new' to me. I've always treated a shotgun like a rifle, but I'd need more practice.

Odds are I'll take the class again the next time he offers it or the intermediate if he lets me. It's well worth the cost and time.

Shotguns aren't for everyone. Dealing with the recoil can be problematic, and because it has such a loud boom it can be intimidating, but there was a petite young lady, from my perspective, who took the class and rocked and rolled.

It has it's pro's and cons, but for a SHTF it's a close second on my list, first in certain circumstances.
 

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Stark Fla. PD pistol training several years ago. One female officer on dept. On one of the breaks she mentioned she couldn't carry a shottie in her truck because she couldn't qualify with it, it had too much recoil [ though she was petite in stature, she was more than capable of handling a 12 ga.

One the next break I showed her how to stand on one leg and fire it. The chief was there, saw that demonstration and walked up and told her to put one from the station in her cruiser at the end of the days training.

They aren't that hard to handle recoil wise when one has been shown the correct "how to"
 

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Stark Fla. PD pistol training several years ago. One female officer on dept. On one of the breaks she mentioned she couldn't carry a shottie in her truck because she couldn't qualify with it, it had too much recoil [ though she was petite in stature, she was more than capable of handling a 12 ga.

One the next break I showed her how to stand on one leg and fire it. The chief was there, saw that demonstration and walked up and told her to put one from the station in her cruiser at the end of the days training.

They aren't that hard to handle recoil wise when one has been shown the correct "how to"
Correct. I thought I knew the 鈥渉ow to鈥 till I took Bobs class. Now I know the real 鈥渉ow to鈥!


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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
Stark Fla. PD pistol training several years ago. One female officer on dept. On one of the breaks she mentioned she couldn't carry a shottie in her truck because she couldn't qualify with it, it had too much recoil [ though she was petite in stature, she was more than capable of handling a 12 ga.

One the next break I showed her how to stand on one leg and fire it. The chief was there, saw that demonstration and walked up and told her to put one from the station in her cruiser at the end of the days training.

They aren't that hard to handle recoil wise when one has been shown the correct "how to"
GREAT !
I started learning shotguns when I was 12. Started harvesting deer with slugs and duck with shot in the Adirondacks when I was 13. I earned expert rating with shotguns during 0321 training, and I made use of a mossberg 500 in various ways while in country later.

Started using 12g again when I left the service to harvest deer and remove wild hogs.

I took Bobs class. I had recently dislocated my left shoulder and something about the forward stock push exasperated the issue, but his shoot from the hip was 'new' to me. I've always treated a shotgun like a rifle, but I'd need more practice.

Odds are I'll take the class again the next time he offers it or the intermediate if he lets me. It's well worth the cost and time.

Shotguns aren't for everyone. Dealing with the recoil can be problematic, and because it has such a loud boom it can be intimidating, but there was a petite young lady, from my perspective, who took the class and rocked and rolled.

It has it's pro's and cons, but for a SHTF it's a close second on my list, first in certain circumstances.
Understood . Everyone is different , depending upon their physical being , and also what is most comfortable for their use . Personally , as for me , Both of my Rotatorcuffs out , Dislocated left thumb & shrapnel in my left pinky .

Thus not for me at this stage of my life . I Speak Only for Myself , and Not Casting any Aspersions on anyone else , to their choices .. Training is good , Proper Training is even better ! .. Thanks ! 'G' (y) (y) (y) ;)
 
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Handguns to me are a means to fight to a long gun. My opinion is if I can get to a shotgun or carbine, I won鈥檛 be using a pistol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Handguns to me are a means to fight to a long gun. My opinion is if I can get to a shotgun or carbine, I won鈥檛 be using a pistol.
Exactly my point ! One of my First , primary and extremely close weapons is My *M1 Carbine .. [ 3 ] loaded [ 30 ] rnds , [ 2 ] 20 rounders . Good enough in a few wars , good enough for me in my house . Thank You For Your Input My Friend .

p.s. - Right next to that my shorter PPSH '43 S/A 7.62x25 [ 4 ] 35 and mags 'G'
 
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