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I don't believe the idea the dems are behind this kid shooting others to take the focus off the impeachment hearings. They are capable of more than we could imagine [ truth is stranger than fiction usually ] but I'm going to have to see a bridge built before I walk into that subjective thinking.

Build the bridge, it can be discussed. No bridge? There's really nothing to discuss relative conspiracy theories
I don't think a shadowy Democrat cabal orchestrated this shooting but what I do know is that all the major TV networks chose to cover it all day long while the House of Representatives was holding hearings to impeach the President of the United States. The shadowy figures are in the media. They make the decisions on what to cover. Bad things happen every single day. I bet five people were killed in Chicago yesterday, (make that pretty much every day) and there is never a peep about it in the media. There were likely dozens of manhunts, a few cats up a tree and a kid fell down a well. There are 300,000,000 stories brimming with Human interest.
the left claims that 30,000 people are killed by guns every year. That works out to 82 a day. Every day 82 people die from guns and they pick to run this story all day long when they did not even know anyone was injured until the afternoon.
It smells bad. It's not Democrats in congress trying to save their folly from being aired by committing felony murder its the Democrats in the media massaging their propaganda campaign to protect their heroes.
 

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COOPS
:2thumsup
Ronnie
 

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As of this morning, the shooter has been taken of life support and has been pronounced dead. If he left no notes, etc., I guess we'll never know....
 

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As of this morning, the shooter has been taken of life support and has been pronounced dead. If he left no notes, etc., I guess we'll never know....
What's to know? This is something that truly baffles me... this obsession to "know" WHY the murderer murders and / or commits suicide. What purpose does it serve? What purpose has it EVER served? What USEFUL "answers" has it ever provided? Ever??? I'm not aware of any such "answers" being used to successfully prevent other murders. It's like predicting when and where lightning will strike. You can't. But, let's ask the lightning! :rolleyes:

I submit the ONLY thing such "answers" offer is to satisfy the emotional attraction of GOSSIP. It's a morbid, emotionally-based curiosity that has no practical purpose.

Why did he do it? Here's the best answer: Because that m***********r was crazy. That's why.

Even if he was alive or had written an eloquent "letter," how credible or useful would that be? What actual value would it have? ZERO. It would be the rantings of a crazy m**********r. It would do nothing more than titillate those curious people who "just gotta know." It would be most interesting to the same kind of person who has to CALL BACK the missed call on his cell phone to "see who it was." :dunno
 

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What's to know? This is something that truly baffles me... this obsession to "know" WHY the murderer murders and / or commits suicide. What purpose does it serve? What purpose has it EVER served? What USEFUL "answers" has it ever provided? Ever??? I'm not aware of any such "answers" being used to successfully prevent other murders. It's like predicting when and where lightning will strike. You can't.

I submit the ONLY thing such "answers" offer is to satisfy the emotional attraction of GOSSIP. It's a morbid, emotionally-based curiosity that has no practical purpose.

Why did he do it? Here's the best answer: Because that m***********r was crazy. That's why.

And just what was it that made that m***********r crazy? Who knows? knowing motivations just might help us figure out how to prevent others from being similarly "motivated." With many if not most of the signs pointing towards mental health as a primary factor in these shootings, wouldn't you want to know "what they were thinking?" Or, if not mental health as the factor, wouldn't you want to know what other motivations there could possibly be (ie. "revenge" for something a la "going postal," )?

With the dems and antis kvetching that we "gun nuts" aren't trying to solve the problem of "gun violence" (their words, not mine), I am, at least, doing my best to take them on and figuring out what motivates someone to commit these crimes. The more data I gather after each incident, the closer to a potential cause. And that's why I wanted to know in the BG's own words what he was thinking.... But, as stated, in this case, we may never know...
 

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Tough issue, good points on each side, but I think I'm more inclined to side with racer88 on this matter. It would be one thing if finding out these answers actually resulted in something. Why did Columbine happen? Why Vegas? Why Pulse? Why MSD High School? Each case had something to do with people who were imbalanced to say the least, there was lots of digging and unearthing of reasons... but none of it useful in preventing a future act.

If that's the case, then why probe into the details of some sick mind?

I think the only reason the media makes a song of it is because it has emotional appeal, thus people will tune in to find out the latest dysfunctional facts.
 

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Tough issue, good points on each side, but I think I'm more inclined to side with racer88 on this matter. It would be one thing if finding out these answers actually resulted in something. Why did Columbine happen? Why Vegas? Why Pulse? Why MSD High School? Each case had something to do with people who were imbalanced to say the least, there was lots of digging and unearthing of reasons... but none of it useful in preventing a future act.

If that's the case, then why probe into the details of some sick mind?
Trend analysis. Maybe we can gain some inferences on motivation, even if they don't get us closer to stopping the problem (and I admit what the dems/antis won't... not publicly anyway), that we'll never totally stop it. But if we can get some insight on motivations that might help us minimize some of the motivations, I'm all for that.


I think the only reason the media makes a song of it is because it has emotional appeal, thus people will tune in to find out the latest dysfunctional facts.
True, but that's a different problem. That problem involves the MSM taking advantage of these incidents in order to further their political agenda. I'm not sure how we can solve that problem, except to counter their activities with our own (i.e. point out how being armed saves lives, etc. etc.)... all the stuff on which the MSM *won't* report.
 

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What's to know? This is something that truly baffles me... this obsession to "know" WHY the murderer murders and / or commits suicide. What purpose does it serve? What purpose has it EVER served? What USEFUL "answers" has it ever provided? Ever??? I'm not aware of any such "answers" being used to successfully prevent other murders. It's like predicting when and where lightning will strike. You can't. But, let's ask the lightning! :rolleyes:

I submit the ONLY thing such "answers" offer is to satisfy the emotional attraction of GOSSIP. It's a morbid, emotionally-based curiosity that has no practical purpose.

Why did he do it? Here's the best answer: Because that m***********r was crazy. That's why.

Even if he was alive or had written an eloquent "letter," how credible or useful would that be? What actual value would it have? ZERO. It would be the rantings of a crazy m**********r. It would do nothing more than titillate those curious people who "just gotta know." It would be most interesting to the same kind of person who has to CALL BACK the missed call on his cell phone to "see who it was." :dunno
Wow, what an incredibly backwards, ignorant attitude. Good thing the folks at the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit don't subscribe to that kind of thinking. :rolleyes:
 

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Tough issue, good points on each side, but I think I'm more inclined to side with racer88 on this matter. It would be one thing if finding out these answers actually resulted in something. Why did Columbine happen? Why Vegas? Why Pulse? Why MSD High School? Each case had something to do with people who were imbalanced to say the least, there was lots of digging and unearthing of reasons... but none of it useful in preventing a future act.

If that's the case, then why probe into the details of some sick mind?

I think the only reason the media makes a song of it is because it has emotional appeal, thus people will tune in to find out the latest dysfunctional facts.
Why MSD High School?
Answer: The m***********r was crazy.
But the real answer(s): The Broward County School Board, the Promise Program, former "Sheriff" Scott Israel, Broward County School Superintendent Robert Runcie, and former US Secretary of Education Arne Duncan, School Resource Officer Scot Peterson, and a long list of others. Not necessarily in that order.

Sometimes it actually is useful to dig a little and to ask questions.
(...as long as it's not the crazy killer answering them!)
 

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And just what was it that made that m***********r crazy? Who knows?
These types of monsters have been doing these evil deeds ever since Cain murdered his brother with a """ROCK"""
They are all over this world and in every country.
They are just part of nature and will never be stopped from killing.
SERIAL KILLERS =
EVIL LEADERS OF COUNTRIES=
just look back into history and see what people did to each other for no apparent reason other then KILL and usually under the lies of RELIGION.
It will never ever be eliminated and if no guns, no knives, no swords, no weapons at all, the evil monster human will find a way to kill.
If anyone thinks they can stop these people I would like to know the plan.
Ronnie
 

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These types of monsters have been doing these evil deeds ever since Cain murdered his brother with a """ROCK"""
They are all over this world and in every country.
They are just part of nature and will never be stopped from killing.
SERIAL KILLERS =
EVIL LEADERS OF COUNTRIES=
just look back into history and see what people did to each other for no apparent reason other then KILL and usually under the lies of RELIGION.
It will never ever be eliminated and if no guns, no knives, no swords, no weapons at all, the evil monster human will find a way to kill.
If anyone thinks they can stop these people I would like to know the plan.
Ronnie

I totally agree, Ronnie. But we can't escape the fact that these incidents have been increasing in later decades (or, at least, they're being reported more aggressively by the MSM). In the late 50's and early 60' they were unheard of. These days??? And we are all "expert speculators" as to why that is.

Without more data for "trend analysis," I'd speculate that:

1) The population in the USA has soared, and economic and other resources are getting a lot tighter... hence more competition and more potential for "random" incidents;

2) There has been a total weakening and lack of "parental control..." ie. parents not raising their kids to do right and, most importantly, to respect life; (i.e. there seems to be a prevalant
attitude that it's "OK" to kill people to solve one's problems in life....); :smack

3) Along with "2)" above, there has been a weakening of the mechanisms that handle "mental health" in this country. And, with that increasing population from 1), proportionately increased mentally ill people;

4) Lack of enforcement of existing laws (and/or maintenance of current systems (NICS, etc.), that keep track of those who are adjudicated mentally ill and/or are convicted felons, etc.). Said maintenance including a clearing of records for those entered in error, or who have completed their obligations and cleared their names.



We should all be attempting to address all of these concerns. I was merely attempting to take a whack at 3) above, and trying to figure out what factors in re: "mental health" we're dealing with.
 

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And just what was it that made that m***********r crazy? Who knows?
Figure that out, and you'll be a very rich man. So far, in the history of mankind... nobody has figured out the answer.

I just accept that some mofos be crazy. I accept that I cannot prevent or change crazy. I just have to watch out for it and avoid it.

PS... Here are the "Top Ten" things I KNOW DIDN'T turn anyone into a crazy murderer:

1. Us / Society.

2. Guns.

3. The NRA.

4. The NBA.

5. Global warming.

6. Assuming his gender.

7. Lack-a-nooki.

8. Gluten.

9. Racism.

10. Donald Trump.
 

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Tough issue, good points on each side, but I think I'm more inclined to side with racer88 on this matter. It would be one thing if finding out these answers actually resulted in something. Why did Columbine happen? Why Vegas? Why Pulse? Why MSD High School? Each case had something to do with people who were imbalanced to say the least, there was lots of digging and unearthing of reasons... but none of it useful in preventing a future act.

If that's the case, then why probe into the details of some sick mind?

I think the only reason the media makes a song of it is because it has emotional appeal, thus people will tune in to find out the latest dysfunctional facts.
Exactly... there is no shortage of "data." We've had PLENTY of examples and opportunities to "figure out their motivations." We are no closer to knowing the "answer" today, in 2019, than we were when the University of Texas tower shooting happened in 1966.

Some people be crazy up in da head. Call it "mental health issues," if that assuages the little PC guy on your shoulder.

The best thing we can do is RECOGNIZE the OBVIOUS SIGNS and ACT on them. There is the point of failure that can EASILY be addressed. When the police are called to the perp's residence 40 times... when the perp is caught bringing knives and ammo to school... when the perp makes EXPLICIT THREATS that he's going to "shoot up the school" on ****ing YouTube video... when the perp is KNOWN to ALL the kids in the school as a crazy mofo... Yeah... 'nuff said, eh?

Or we can try to delve into his crazy-ass mind and derive some delusional "PC" satisfaction that we're "doing something." :dunno
 

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Wow, what an incredibly backwards, ignorant attitude. Good thing the folks at the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit don't subscribe to that kind of thinking. :rolleyes:
And, exactly how many school mass murder incidents has the FBI prevented?

Yeah... I'm ignorant and backwards! LOL! I'm actually laughing out loud.

What's backwards, indefensible, and inexcusable is to IGNORE the bad guy TELLING you he's going to shoot up a school. He ****ing TOLD everyone he's going to do it. But, you're mostly interested in how the PERP would explain his "motives???" THAT'S what some of you think is important??? Not the STUNNING series of malfeasant blunders made by those who could have EASILY prevented this? (Thinking of the MSD murders.)


- - - Updated - - -

Why MSD High School?
Answer: The m***********r was crazy.
But the real answer(s): The Broward County School Board, the Promise Program, former "Sheriff" Scott Israel, Broward County School Superintendent Robert Runcie, and former US Secretary of Education Arne Duncan, School Resource Officer Scot Peterson, and a long list of others. Not necessarily in that order.

Sometimes it actually is useful to dig a little and to ask questions.
(...as long as it's not the crazy killer answering them!)
BINGO!!
 

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Discussion Starter #35
But we can't escape the fact that these incidents have been increasing in later decades (or, at least, they're being reported more aggressively by the MSM). In the late 50's and early 60' they were unheard of. These days???
If memory serves me correctly, the first school shooting was in the 40s, with six dead. Albeit all adults, I believe. I also remember seeing there were more shootings in the 90s than today.

I agree with you on the news thing. We're more connected than ever now. 24-hour news cycle, phone alerts, emails, and the list goes on.


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When I was a kid in Delaware there was a place named "FARNHURST" that was a mental institution.
It is not there now.
There was "FOREST INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL" where the unruly , bad kids were sent when they could not be under control properly.
I have been in Florida for 41 Years now and never ever heard of anything to be available to at least screen the mentally ill or Juvenal thugs.
Of course we have prisons and jails but they are nothing but holding tanks that allow the criminals each others trade.
Ronnie
 

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If memory serves me correctly, the first school shooting was in the 40s, with six dead. Albeit all adults, I believe. I also remember seeing there were more shootings in the 90s than today.

I agree with you on the news thing. We're more connected than ever now. 24-hour news cycle, phone alerts, emails, and the list goes on.


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yes...
 

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If memory serves me correctly, the first school shooting was in the 40s, with six dead. Albeit all adults, I believe. I also remember seeing there were more shootings in the 90s than today.

I agree with you on the news thing. We're more connected than ever now. 24-hour news cycle, phone alerts, emails, and the list goes on.


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I'm not denying that they *didn't* happen back then. I'm just wondering how many back then, and/or how often were they "reported." The very first school shooting I recall that made the national MSM was Charles Whitman atop of the tower at Univ. of Texas, Austin. And the media made a big deal out of it because it seems that stories like that had not been reported on much. I don't ever recall a time back then when anyone would consider banning weapons on campus. Even up to the mid 70's there were rifle and pistol clubs on school campuses, and some even had ranges. These days? Highly unlikely.

Something has changed. What?
 

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When I was a kid in Delaware there was a place named "FARNHURST" that was a mental institution.
It is not there now.
There was "FOREST INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL" where the unruly , bad kids were sent when they could not be under control properly.
I have been in Florida for 41 Years now and never ever heard of anything to be available to at least screen the mentally ill or Juvenal thugs.
Of course we have prisons and jails but they are nothing but holding tanks that allow the criminals each others trade.
Ronnie
In NY State, there was the "Willowbrook" State school for children with "intellectual disabilities" (read Mentall Ill). Made famous by Geraldo Rivera's secret raid on it to expose abuses.

In NJ, there was the "Greystone Park Psychiatric Hospital," near where I lived.

Neither serves their original intended purpose, these days. Perhaps, they should.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Something has changed. What?
We're more connected than ever now. 24-hour news cycle, phone alerts, emails, and the list goes on.
Availability Bias (also, Attention Bias, Anchoring Bias): A fallacy of logos stemming from the natural tendency to give undue attention and importance to information that is immediately available at hand, particularly the first or last information received, and to minimize or ignore broader data or wider evidence that clearly exists but is not as easily remembered or accessed.

The Big Lie Technique (also the Bold Faced Lie; "Staying on Message."): The contemporary fallacy of repeating a lie, fallacy, slogan, talking-point, nonsense-statement or deceptive half-truth over and over in different forms (particularly in the media) until it becomes part of daily discourse and people accept it without further proof or evidence. Sometimes the bolder and more outlandish the Big Lie becomes the more credible it seems to a willing, most often angry audience.


These are two examples.




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