Florida Concealed Carry banner

21 - 40 of 71 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,293 Posts
MP's and military gate guards are more highly trained than civilian cops are..in actual combat, not "forcing to comply" garbage. I'd expect that statement from the source, though
not always. I have a family member that frequently talks about when was an AE on a carrier (about 1981). When the carrier was in port at Norfolk for a slightly extended stay he was temporarily assigned to guard duty. A brief course with the marines on weapons and gatehouse procedures and he was put to work at the gate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,200 Posts
I can’t tell ya how many times I stood guard at the gates to base. (Fully armed)I believe Escambia has a mutual aid agreement with the base. They did TCB however !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
533 Posts
NAS Pensacola and Eglin AFB have a mix of rent a cops (or civilian hires) and active military. It's about a 50/50 mix.
Hurlburt also has civilian hires along with military but is about 75%military, 25% civilian.
Sometimes it's just civilians at the gates. Sometimes only military. Sometimes both.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,081 Posts
Camp Lejuene, Geiger, MCAS New River, and all bases on Okinawa used armed Marines on the gates. All Naval bases with nuke weapons used Marines. Perhaps the Navy is kindler, gentler now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,997 Posts
Because they are the ones charged with handling that sort of task on the local bases in this county. You don't expect the rent-a-cops checking ID cards at the gate to have a response team sitting around just in case do you?
No, I expect any U.S. military base in the post-9/11 world to have a QRF just in case.

I haven’t seen any military bases with rentacops at the front gate. Do you know that for a fact or are you speculating? It’s bizarre to me to think there isnt an MP unit with SWAT capability on every military base......very weird that local Sheriff dept would be answering this call....dumb ass Billy Clinton. This is something Trump could “pen” away in a heartbeat. Military bases back to armed and ready!!!!!
My wife used to be a rent-a-cop working the gate at NAS Key West, but that was pre-9/11.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,029 Posts
MP's and military gate guards are more highly trained than civilian cops are..in actual combat, not "forcing to comply" garbage. I'd expect that statement from the source, though
OTOH, unless it has changed significantly, most LEOs are military Vets, many having been MPs themselves.:grin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,215 Posts
I haven’t seen any military bases with rentacops at the front gate. Do you know that for a fact or are you speculating? It’s bizarre to me to think there isnt an MP unit with SWAT capability on every military base......very weird that local Sheriff dept would be answering this call....dumb ass Billy Clinton. This is something Trump could “pen” away in a heartbeat. Military bases back to armed and ready!!!!!
I HOPE that OHEng simply mistakenly believes that military bases are guarded by civilian "rent-a-cop" security firms.... rather than be referring to Navy security forces (enlisted and commissioned officer sailors) as "rent-a-cops."

To me, "rent-a-cop" means private security firms, like what you see at the mall or at an HOA-type community gate... not even a civilian LEO.

I can ASSURE you that Navy troops can handle their business FAR better than civilian cops. And, that's with all due respect to civilian LEOs. (I just came back from the PBSO range... great, great officers!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,215 Posts
NAS Pensacola and Eglin AFB have a mix of rent a cops (or civilian hires) and active military. It's about a 50/50 mix.
Hurlburt also has civilian hires along with military but is about 75%military, 25% civilian.
Sometimes it's just civilians at the gates. Sometimes only military. Sometimes both.
I've NEVER seen civilians working security at ANY military base. If that's something (very) new, then that $hit's gotta go. Civilians have NO business guarding military bases. That's ****ing crazy. Again.. I've never seen it. The last time I was on a base (Air Force Academy) was maybe 3 years ago. No civvies guarding the gate there. And, we CERTAINLY didn't have civilians working security when I served in the Navy (San Diego).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,637 Posts
WTF?? I can't believe you wrote that. Are you serious? Ummm... yeah... the guys at the gate aren't "rent-a-cops." Or, is that how you view our military servicemembers? Are you ****ing serious?? Please just tell me you're ignorant. PLEASE. I'm afraid I already know the answer. Wow... my opinion of you just dropped another 1000 points. I thought you were smart. I really did. Then you write a boner like that.

I expect that our troops are FULLY capable of defending themselves. You know they go to war, to fight in actual battles, and train, eh? No. Apparently, you think they're "rent-a-cops." Good God. So, yeah... I expect our troops to fight back when they're being shot at. I don't expect our troops to "call the police" to come save them. Who better to defend our troops, than.... OUR TROOPS???
I don't know if you've been into the laughing gas today or what, but I have no idea where you got the idea that my simply reporting factually that answer to a question YOU asked got turned into some kind of condemnation of our military people, but I never condemned them, only factually reported that the local bases have no military force standing by for counter-terrorist ops.

First of all, I go onto that base all the time... how many times did you enter that base last week? So don't tell me who mans that gate at Navy Blvd. because you're just talking out of your butt. There are some military members that do serve on the gates of that base and at Corry Station and at the Naval Hospital Clinic gate, but NONE of them are dedicated to that task with any kind of special training in handling terrorist attacks in a classroom building. Generally, they are students who are in a pool of people waiting to class up, people having failed a particular school and are just awaiting orders or reclassification. I know this because I talk to them all the time and they tell me what they're doing here.

As to the civilian agency that provides the security guards, I have 8 former Navy personnel and 3 former USMC personnel that I served with when on active duty ALL tell me (and they went to work for that company) that is was essentially a "rent-a-cop" type outfit, which is why none of them stayed with them any longer than it took them to line up another job. Their training is centered around gate security and traffic control, and they are DIScouraged from getting involved in any situation beyond that. Certainly they aren't going to go storming any classrooms.

None of these particular military members have any kind of special training in anti-terrorist activities. At best, they have the basic 9mm pistol qualification and that's it. So what kind of fool would send a group of those folks in to engage an active terrorist when you have a local LEA trained, equipped, and with the tactical know-how to get it done quickly? Notice that, aside from the first responding Deputies (who weren't part of the special team that showed up soon after), the shooter was quickly dispatched with no further injuries to local LE.

It isn't that our military personnel are not capable of being trained and doing that job - and doing it very well. The issue is that none of them presently ARE trained for it and because of that the bases have agreements with local LE to handle that job. You asked why they responded - well that's why. They are the ones charged with response. Some bases have their own fire department - others rely on the local FD in case of a fire. It's no big deal, it's just a matter of deciding ahead of time does the base want to take on the job with its own personnel or not. In this case, for this situation, the answer is no, and it's been that same way for the 31 years I've been working on or using the facilities at these local bases.


So if he stole it or bought it off the street, then what? Are you going to propose more laws? Make that illegaler? :dunno Wait... I know! Ban magazines with more than a 5-round capacity!
I haven't called for increasing anything, nor do I plan to. I simply want to know how he laid hands on one. There are reports in the news this morning that he used a Glock 9mm that he purchased locally. HE PURCHASED locally... so if that is true as reported, yeah, I want to know the LGS who sold that weapon and they would never get a bit of my business ever again. I'm not asking the government to restrict anyone even more, I just want to be able to make my own choices accordingly - that's why I want to know. If it turns out he stole it, well nothing I can really do about that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,637 Posts
I haven’t seen any military bases with rentacops at the front gate. Do you know that for a fact or are you speculating? It’s bizarre to me to think there isnt an MP unit with SWAT capability on every military base......very weird that local Sheriff dept would be answering this call....dumb ass Billy Clinton. This is something Trump could “pen” away in a heartbeat. Military bases back to armed and ready!!!!!
It's the same company some of my friends worked for (see previous post). They are not MPs, they are not billeted here on military orders with an appropriate NEC in the LE/Security/MP line of work. They are a civilian contractor that provides basic security and that's all they are contracted to do. They can write you a speeding ticket if you blast over that 35mph limit on base, but they aren't tactically trained for heavy duty lifting such as taking down a Saudi flight student turned terrorist.

I've nothing against that company, I'm simply telling you as a fact that they are not trained or equipped to handle that kind of situation. Oh, they will be involved, but it will be in securing the access to the base and directing traffic. The local LEA has trained and equipped people and they have an agreement with the base to provide those services if needed.

In years past, I've seen military people dedicated to the task of protecting bases and they indeed did a good job. I remember being stationed at NAS Coronado and the Marines who guarded that base were definitely capable of putting a hurting on anything in or around that base. But this ain't them. Because of several years of downsizing, consolidating, and budget cuts, it ain't your father's gate security we're talking about.

There is a Public Affairs Office on that base, I'm sure you could contact them and ask them why the local LEA responded and no base/military personnel did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,215 Posts
As to the civilian agency that provides the security guards, I have 8 former Navy personnel and 3 former USMC personnel that I served with when on active duty ALL tell me (and they went to work for that company) that is was essentially a "rent-a-cop" type outfit, which is why none of them stayed with them any longer than it took them to line up another job.

It isn't that our military personnel are not capable of being trained and doing that job - and doing it very well. The issue is that none of them presently ARE trained for it and because of that the bases have agreements with local LE to handle that job. You asked why they responded - well that's why. They are the ones charged with response. Some bases have their own fire department - others rely on the local FD in case of a fire. It's no big deal, it's just a matter of deciding ahead of time does the base want to take on the job with its own personnel or not. In this case, for this situation, the answer is no, and it's been that same way for the 31 years I've been working on or using the facilities at these local bases.
Well, there's the problem, then. Yeah... that's news to me, and I see that as a HUGE, GLARING issue. That's not to mention the oxymoronic factor. A military base that can't defend itself?? Holy $hit. Things have apparently changed, and for the WORSE. MUCH worse. "Back in my day," the purpose of the military was to wage war... you know... kill people and blow their $hit up. And, now they can't even defend themselves from a SINGLE terrorist??? WTF!! What is their mission now???

That's not to mention the folly of bases being "gun free zones." Crazy, crazy, crazy.

I never saw a civilian LEO on base in San Diego. And, I didn't see any at the Air Force Academy when I visited.

I haven't called for increasing anything, nor do I plan to. I simply want to know how he laid hands on one. There are reports in the news this morning that he used a Glock 9mm that he purchased locally. HE PURCHASED locally... so if that is true as reported, yeah, I want to know the LGS who sold that weapon and they would never get a bit of my business ever again. I'm not asking the government to restrict anyone even more, I just want to be able to make my own choices accordingly - that's why I want to know. If it turns out he stole it, well nothing I can really do about that.
It's like asking, "where and how did Joey get that pot / crack / heroine?" News flash: Contraband is EASILY available. And, there's no stopping it in.... here's the KEY... a Free country. He didn't get it at an LGS / FFL, eh? I don't think a foreign national will get past the NICS check, right? He either stole it or, even more likely, bought it "on the street."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
533 Posts
I've NEVER seen civilians working security at ANY military base. If that's something (very) new, then that $hit's gotta go. Civilians have NO business guarding military bases. That's ****ing crazy. Again.. I've never seen it. The last time I was on a base (Air Force Academy) was maybe 3 years ago. No civvies guarding the gate there. And, we CERTAINLY didn't have civilians working security when I served in the Navy (San Diego).
They started post 2001 to relieve pressure on troops due to deployments. They're heavily armed, well trained, and allow active military to perform other duties. Besides, if someone runs a gate, there's a new option within 100 yards to stop vehicles. The second guard inside the security house at the gate pushes a button and barriers pop out of the ground.
I forget which base, not in this area, where a car ran the gate a month or so ago. They hit the button. Car hit the barrier, driver and passenger dead. Seems to work pretty good. At the very least, slows them down so reinforcements can arrive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,215 Posts
They started post 2001 to relieve pressure on troops due to deployments. They're heavily armed, well trained, and allow active military to perform other duties. Besides, if someone runs a gate, there's a new option within 100 yards to stop vehicles. The second guard inside the security house at the gate pushes a button and barriers pop out of the ground.
I forget which base, not in this area, where a car ran the gate a month or so ago. They hit the button. Car hit the barrier, driver and passenger dead. Seems to work pretty good. At the very least, slows them down so reinforcements can arrive.
Interesting. But, sad, too. I stand by my opposition to the idea of military personnel being prevented from defending themselves. It's insane and an indefensible policy (pun not intended).

It reminds me of the disarmed Marines standing guard at the gate to the barracks in Beirut back in 1983. You'd think we had learned our lesson about leaving our bases so vulnerable. Again... WTF???

I really cannot believe what I'm hearing here. What has become of our military? They seem more concerned about political correctness than military readiness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,887 Posts
I forget which base, not in this area, where a car ran the gate a month or so ago. They hit the button. Car hit the barrier, driver and passenger dead. Seems to work pretty good. At the very least, slows them down so reinforcements can arrive.
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/10/06/3-die-after-running-gate-crashing-into-barrier-at-robins-air-force-base/

ROBINS AIR FORCE BASE, Ga. — Authorities say a man drove through a gate at Robins Air Force Base and collided with a security barrier, killing himself and two passengers.

The incident occurred Friday night after the vehicle approached the Russell Parkway gate and refused to stop.

News outlets report the car then crashed through the gate, prompting guards to activate a security barrier to keep the vehicle from advancing. The speeding vehicle then hit the barrier.




-on Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,215 Posts
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/10/06/3-die-after-running-gate-crashing-into-barrier-at-robins-air-force-base/

ROBINS AIR FORCE BASE, Ga. — Authorities say a man drove through a gate at Robins Air Force Base and collided with a security barrier, killing himself and two passengers.

The incident occurred Friday night after the vehicle approached the Russell Parkway gate and refused to stop.

News outlets report the car then crashed through the gate, prompting guards to activate a security barrier to keep the vehicle from advancing. The speeding vehicle then hit the barrier.

Would love to see video of that! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,887 Posts
Me, too, but I'm not finding any! :grin

-on Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,215 Posts
It's the same company some of my friends worked for (see previous post). They are not MPs, they are not billeted here on military orders with an appropriate NEC in the LE/Security/MP line of work. They are a civilian contractor that provides basic security and that's all they are contracted to do. They can write you a speeding ticket if you blast over that 35mph limit on base, but they aren't tactically trained for heavy duty lifting such as taking down a Saudi flight student turned terrorist.

I've nothing against that company, I'm simply telling you as a fact that they are not trained or equipped to handle that kind of situation. Oh, they will be involved, but it will be in securing the access to the base and directing traffic. The local LEA has trained and equipped people and they have an agreement with the base to provide those services if needed.

In years past, I've seen military people dedicated to the task of protecting bases and they indeed did a good job. I remember being stationed at NAS Coronado and the Marines who guarded that base were definitely capable of putting a hurting on anything in or around that base. But this ain't them. Because of several years of downsizing, consolidating, and budget cuts, it ain't your father's gate security we're talking about.

There is a Public Affairs Office on that base, I'm sure you could contact them and ask them why the local LEA responded and no base/military personnel did.
That's just so sad. So, the civilians aren't even cops? They're just a private security firm? Like "Paul Blart?" :(

I'm glad you weren't referring to our troops as "rent-a-cops." I assumed (for good reason) that the folks guarding the gate of a MILITARY base were... MILITARY personnel. That was always my experience. I'm still thinking, "WTF??"
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
27,087 Posts
Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
That's just so sad. So, the civilians aren't even cops? They're just a private security firm? Like "Paul Blart?" :(

I'm glad you weren't referring to our troops as "rent-a-cops." I assumed (for good reason) that the folks guarding the gate of a MILITARY base were... MILITARY personnel. That was always my experience. I'm still thinking, "WTF??"
For over two decades of my 30+ years at NAS Patuxent River (and probably that whole time but I just can't remember way back to when I started), we had U.S. Navy Gate Guards supplemented by DoD Civilian Police Officers, but NEVER contract security guards. Those Navy/DoD LEOs drilled regularly in countertactics for all sorts of threats, including counter-terrorism threats. After 9-11, the base installed those rapid response barriers to take out gate crashers. Always wondered what those barriers would do and finally found out after that Robins AFB incident.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Interesting. But, sad, too. I stand by my opposition to the idea of military personnel being prevented from defending themselves. It's insane and an indefensible policy (pun not intended).

It reminds me of the disarmed Marines standing guard at the gate to the barracks in Beirut back in 1983. You'd think we had learned our lesson about leaving our bases so vulnerable. Again... WTF???

I really cannot believe what I'm hearing here. What has become of our military? They seem more concerned about political correctness than military readiness.
Amen!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,637 Posts
I get the surprise and frustration about this base security thing. I really do.

It was never my intent to disparage ANY military force or DoD cops or anyone else... I'm simply reporting what I know. In the last few years of my active duty time (literally last century) I can't count the number of meetings I had to sit through where a lot of this kind of stuff got started. It has to do with BRAC (Base Realignment and Consolidation if I remember it correctly). The military was under a lot of pressure to do more with less, and as you can well imagine at the start of it there was some amount of bloat and excess which rightfully should have been done away with. Examples are 30 installations across the country each with their own accounting, clerks, etc. and many of those type situations could be served with one or two central accounting offices that each served some of the installations. That kind of "fat" was first to go.

Then when it came to base closures and moving commands from A to B, you're into very heavy politics there because Congress members don't take it well when a federal facility in their area gets closed (and all the civilian jobs vanish or go with it). As you would well imagine, this is the kind of thing that is fought tooth and nail, and there are lots of metrics involved that might not immediately jump to mind that come into play. One example is recent construction on the base; if nothing new has been built or improved, that counts against you in the scoring for which base(s) ought to go, so you can be sure every dollar that can be spent on improving an old building or revamping some office space is a top priority. Size of base compared to number of base it serves; ability to expand if necessary; are there other facilities on the base (such as a National Cemetery that's on NAS Pensacola); any historic sites (Fort Barrancas, also on NAS Pensacola), and the list goes on.

So what happens is every few years when this stuff comes up, about a year in advance they form a team that reviews each and every line item and maximizes the scores. Even the local community has a role to play in this. So when you consider WHY a local agency might have primary responsibility for such an important job as critical emergency response, a piece of that puzzle likely came about as a way to best position the base to NOT get closed.

Now speaking personally as a Sailor and as a matter of my own opinion, I believe we learned every thing we needed to know not in kindergarten but at Pearl Harbor 12/7/41. That lesson is simple - NEVER trust anyone, and the only one you can rely on for your own defense is YOU, whether you be an individual or a whole Navy. I don't care how much it cost, I don't give a flying rat's patoot about training pipeline times or anything else, but EVERYone that wears a uniform ought to have training in defending their base. Just like on a ship, it should be a matter of daily routine to practice those skills. The local SO can show up if they want, but they'd be climbing over several dozen Sailors and Marines who likely already would have had the Saudi 2nd LT in question well into the Swiss cheese category. But that's just me... and it's not like any of the powers that be would listen to what I have to say. I'm sure there's some money reason why that couldn't be, but the one thing I learned about money in a government agency the size of the Nav is that when the SHTF, money can flow like water from a NYC fire hydrant in July. Unfortunately, it takes S hitting the F for those waterways to open up.

Back to the subject of the gun for a second. The Daily Mail is reporting tonight that the weapon was a Glock 45, and it was purchased at a LGS. According to their article, there is some sort of exception to the rule IF the visiting national has a hunting license, and apparently this guy had one. I admit I don't know what laws regarding what might allow a visiting Saudi flight student to be able to purchase a firearm, but I'm sure it's gonna be common knowledge around LGSs and local ranges right quick!
 
21 - 40 of 71 Posts
Top