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The promoter, Florida Gun Shows (Shoot Straight), has decided to ban private gun sales at all their shows. Calls were made to vendors (8/16/19) telling them that only licensed gun dealers will be able to buy guns from patrons and sell guns at their shows. That means background check, waiting period if you don't have a carry permit, paperwork and inflated costs. It also means selling to licensed dealers who are looking for a markup so the price you get will be reduced.

The reason for this is simple: the margin on new gun sales is low, maybe less than 10%. On used guns it is 50% or more. Khalid, the owner, hopes to drive the small sellers away so that he can take up the slack.

This is certainly his right but it is an unacceptable assault on our ability to buy and sell and, thus, shows his disdain for the Second Amendment and for Florida gun owners (who have made him a wealthy man, BTW). Also, when you go to these shows it will be like going to a gun store rather than a true marketplace.

We should avoid all shows put on by Florida Gun Shows and boycott their brick and mortar stores which do business as Shoot Straight. Patronize Patriot Productions, 2 Guys Shows and the other promoters in Florida that show a bit of concern for the gun owning and buying public.

I think that we are under assault from many quarters, having a person like Khalid, who depends upon us for his livelihood, to not have our backs is despicable.
 

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when you go to these shows it will be like going to a gun store
Every gun show that I've ever been to is pretty much like going to a gun store. Private sellers are extremely rare in my experience.

That said... private sales can still happen in the parking lot, eh? :)
 

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This is not the first time shoot strait has worked against gun owners. One of their managers said gun owners were not trained enough to open carry on TV news before a FL house vote on open carry.
 

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I suspect there's a little more to Shoot Straight's policy change for their shows affecting private firearms sales than indicated here.
:popcorn
 

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I have 2 guns I want to sell, sold the pistol twice on gunbroker (bad check 1st, then new guy changed mind) so gave up on GB, but no way I'm going to sell for 1/2 price. Shoot strait is my least favorite gun store.
 

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We were a dealer at their shows for 4 or 5 years. No real problems. Thing that bugs me is that we have enough static from the left without a guy who has made a fortune from us acting as though he were Mike Bloomberg.

Very annoying. Fortunately there are alternatives.
 

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I've had good experience with SS. I've bought several guns from them.
 

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I've been of the opinion that Khalid was a douchebag from the first time I saw him riding his Segway at a gun show. :rolleyes:

He is no true friend of the 2A; everything he does is calculated to line his pocket...as is his right. I've purchased several guns, both new and used, from his tables. But I'll only do business with him if it is advantageous to me to do so.

The internet has largely rendered gun shows unnecessary anyway; all the hard-to-find items that shoppers used to go searching for at gun shows can now be found online.
 

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I've been of the opinion that Khalid was a douchebag from the first time I saw him riding his Segway at a gun show. :rolleyes:

He is no true friend of the 2A; everything he does is calculated to line his pocket...as is his right. I've purchased several guns, both new and used, from his tables. But I'll only do business with him if it is advantageous to me to do so.

The internet has largely rendered gun shows unnecessary anyway; all the hard-to-find items that shoppers used to go searching for at gun shows can now be found online.
I see gun shows as primarily a place for newbies to buy guns. There's nothing "new" there, and the prices are usually HIGH. But, newbies don't know any better. I used to be one! Ammo is ALWAYS over-priced there in my experience.

If you know what you're looking for, and you know what the price SHOULD be, you MIGHT find a deal at a show. But, mostly... it's just an extension of retail brick-'n-mortar stores showing their wares under the guise of "better gun show deals" (again targeting newbies). I'd rather just go to their store front on a regular day... not pay to get in.... and not deal with the crowds.
 

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We were a dealer at their shows for 4 or 5 years. No real problems. Thing that bugs me is that we have enough static from the left without a guy who has made a fortune from us acting as though he were Mike Bloomberg.

Very annoying. Fortunately there are alternatives.
Completely understandable and you're not the first to highlight annoying issues with how Shoot Straight run its shows. Its been a few years since the last thread on the subject, though.
 

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I see gun shows as primarily a place for newbies to buy guns. There's nothing "new" there, and the prices are usually HIGH. But, newbies don't know any better. I used to be one! Ammo is ALWAYS over-priced there in my experience.

If you know what you're looking for, and you know what the price SHOULD be, you MIGHT find a deal at a show. But, mostly... it's just an extension of retail brick-'n-mortar stores showing their wares under the guise of "better gun show deals" (again targeting newbies). I'd rather just go to their store front on a regular day... not pay to get in.... and not deal with the crowds.
I agree - great initiation for first-time gun owners.
They can fondle a bunch of different handguns to see which ones "feel right", and at least get an idea on pricing.
Since they most likely won't have a CCW, they'll have a waiting period before they can accept delivery.
Also, if the show is reasonably crowded (many are), it may reinforce a sense of "safety in numbers", or a "get on the bandwagon" mentality - either way, reassuring feedback regarding their ownership decision.

As for private sales, personally, I'd like to see a system where Buyer and Seller walk into any FFL, pawn shop, gun show, etc..., and there's a fixed pre-determined price to handle the transaction.
If it is really in the government's interest to eliminate private transactions, then the government can make those in-person background checks FREE. Let the local gun store (etc..) keep 100% of the pre-determined (and reasonable) fee. Consider it a cost of doing business / being licensed. And a chance to make a new customer in a lot of cases.

The FFL / local gun store (etc..) doesn't have to be a party to the transaction. They just oversee the process (i.e., background checks).
They collect a small fee for their trouble, and in the end, hand each party a certificate from the government stating that the government authorizes the sale.
The two leave, and that's that.

I'm sure there will be all manner of objections, and implementation problems (i.e., mandatory waiting periods, etc..), but conceptually, I believe the approach could be made to work.

I'd put my flame suit on, but I wonder just how many folks here would agree with the above (conceptually), even though it'll never happen in reality.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Completely understandable and you're not the first to highlight annoying issues with how Shoot Straight run its shows. Its been a few years since the last thread on the subject, though.
I think that this goes way way beyond an annoying issue. Annoying issues are inflated gate prices and parking fees and crappy food. What they are doing is new, new as of August. The management is, in effect, requiring universal background checks and gun registration. And they are doing it voluntarily. That is a big difference IMHO. Not the action of a friend of the Second Amendment I think.
 

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I agree - great initiation for first-time gun owners.
They can fondle a bunch of different handguns to see which ones "feel right", and at least get an idea on pricing.
Since they most likely won't have a CCW, they'll have a waiting period before they can accept delivery.
Also, if the show is reasonably crowded (many are), it may reinforce a sense of "safety in numbers", or a "get on the bandwagon" mentality - either way, reassuring feedback regarding their ownership decision.

As for private sales, personally, I'd like to see a system where Buyer and Seller walk into any FFL, pawn shop, gun show, etc..., and there's a fixed pre-determined price to handle the transaction.
If it is really in the government's interest to eliminate private transactions, then the government can make those in-person background checks FREE. Let the local gun store (etc..) keep 100% of the pre-determined (and reasonable) fee. Consider it a cost of doing business / being licensed. And a chance to make a new customer in a lot of cases.

The FFL / local gun store (etc..) doesn't have to be a party to the transaction. They just oversee the process (i.e., background checks).
They collect a small fee for their trouble, and in the end, hand each party a certificate from the government stating that the government authorizes the sale.
The two leave, and that's that.

I'm sure there will be all manner of objections, and implementation problems (i.e., mandatory waiting periods, etc..), but conceptually, I believe the approach could be made to work.

I'd put my flame suit on, but I wonder just how many folks here would agree with the above (conceptually), even though it'll never happen in reality.
I agree as long as records are not kept at the store.

For all the moaning and groaning about background checks you'd think that performing one would be easy for anyone, even a non-FFL holder. Wrong. You, as a citizen can sell a gun but you cannot do a background check.
 

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I think that this goes way way beyond an annoying issue. Annoying issues are inflated gate prices and parking fees and crappy food. What they are doing is new, new as of August. The management is, in effect, requiring universal background checks and gun registration. And they are doing it voluntarily. That is a big difference IMHO. Not the action of a friend of the Second Amendment I think.
I merely used your word "annoying" from post #6.
 

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The management is, in effect, requiring universal background checks and gun registration. And they are doing it voluntarily. That is a big difference IMHO. Not the action of a friend of the Second Amendment I think.
That's a HUGE stretch. I see it as eliminating their competition while simultaneously engaging in a bit of virtue-signaling.
 

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I see gun shows as primarily a place for newbies to buy guns. There's nothing "new" there, and the prices are usually HIGH. But, newbies don't know any better. I used to be one! Ammo is ALWAYS over-priced there in my experience.

If you know what you're looking for, and you know what the price SHOULD be, you MIGHT find a deal at a show. But, mostly... it's just an extension of retail brick-'n-mortar stores showing their wares under the guise of "better gun show deals" (again targeting newbies). I'd rather just go to their store front on a regular day... not pay to get in.... and not deal with the crowds.
^^^ Agree
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Of course he is eliminating competition somewhat, there are other dealers there after all. What he is doing is enhancing the margin of an average sale. But the consequence of his actions is registration. And that cannot be a surprise to him and that is bad, IMO of course.

Frankly, I am a bit surprised at the general lack of outrage about this move of his.
 

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Of course he is eliminating competition somewhat, there are other dealers there after all. What he is doing is enhancing the margin of an average sale. But the consequence of his actions is registration. And that cannot be a surprise to him and that is bad, IMO of course.

Frankly, I am a bit surprised at the general lack of outrage about this move of his.
The consequences of HIS actions are REGISTRATION??? LOL! BIG leap. More than a big leap... flatly and logically incoherent.

I guess I didn't realize the owner of SS had such powers. He can enact gun registration? Did someone one crown him King?? Last I checked, my vote is as good as his.

But, yeah... I'm not surprised that used guns have a higher profit margin than new guns. The same is true of cars, and just about every other durable good.
 

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While I agree his actions make him a feminine hygiene product one might use on a summer's eve, as well as the bag it came in, does not force a registration issue..

Florida has no firearms registration. A 4473 background check is not a registration form. The FFL is required to hold it for 20 years. If the FFL goes out of business, they send their 4473s to the ATF, where they sit in a storage facility.

FDLE is not allowed to keep detailed lists or records of background checks after a certain period of time. As I recall, it is somewhere between 30 - 90 days. (If other have better information, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.) Otherwise, at least in FL, the only record they keep is the FFL and the control number that is recorded on the 4473.

Tracing a gun through 4473s takes a fair amount of time under normal circumstances. It takes even longer if all the records are sitting in the ATF warehouse.

Finally, realize that there here are very few ways to purchase anything completely anonymously anymore. Order a 80% receiver online, or anything else for that matter, there is a trail. Use a credit card online or in a store, there is a trail. Use a gift card, there is a trail.

Your only real options are cash only/local/private party purchases.

Even in a private party sale, many gun owners will have a bill of sale with the buyer's name, even if only in the unlikely event the ATF comes knocking on their door asking about it.
 
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