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The front sight post has zero to do with point shoulder shooting?
Any type of aimed fire has zero to do with point shooting of any kind.
 

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The dot cleaned up (refined) my draw.
Took me about 500 rounds to get my dot follow up speed acceptable.
I like being able to be target rather than front sight focused.
I've got suppressor height sights that should be bottom 1/3 visible and provide a "back-up" option.
I'm going to install them and go to the range tomorrow, guess I'll find out.
 

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Please exp
The dot cleaned up (refined) my draw.
Took me about 500 rounds to get my dot follow up speed acceptable.
I like being able to be target rather than front sight focused.
I've got suppressor height sights that should be bottom 1/3 visible and provide a "back-up" option.
I'm going to install them and go to the range tomorrow, guess I'll find out.
Please explain how using a red dot enhances target focused shooting?
 

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The front sight post has zero to do with point shoulder shooting?
The 3 or 4 classes we all took with Brownie, EBL and others point shoulder shooting was still low enough to not see the front sight.
1/2 hip, 3/4 hip and point shoulder were all TFS. We never saw our sights in any of the drills or classes I don’t think. It was focus on target, shoot gun. Instinctual in nature. No sights
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
The 3 or 4 classes we all took with Brownie, EBL and others point shoulder shooting was still low enough to not see the front sight.
1/2 hip, 3/4 hip and point shoulder were all TFS. We never saw our sights in any of the drills or classes I don’t think. It was focus on target, shoot gun. Instinctual in nature. No sights
Interesting. That's not how I recall Brownie teaching point shoulder at the class I attended. Perhaps he could weigh in.
 
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The 3 or 4 classes we all took with Brownie, EBL and others point shoulder shooting was still low enough to not see the front sight.
1/2 hip, 3/4 hip and point shoulder were all TFS. We never saw our sights in any of the drills or classes I don’t think. It was focus on target, shoot gun. Instinctual in nature. No sights
Correct, it's full arm extension to shoulder height but still looking just over the gun, not through the sights.
 

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The 3 or 4 classes we all took with Brownie, EBL and others point shoulder shooting was still low enough to not see the front sight.
1/2 hip, 3/4 hip and point shoulder were all TFS. We never saw our sights in any of the drills or classes I don’t think. It was focus on target, shoot gun. Instinctual in nature. No sights
Because point shoulder is point or index shooting. By confusing the brain and eyes with sight picture, point shooting does not work. That’s why when people talk about sights and index shooting they don’t understand what index/point shooting is.
 
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Point shoulder is the gun below the chin. You cannot acquire sights.
 

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Please explain how using a red dot enhances target focused shooting?
If I'm using fixed sights my focus is on the front sight, target blurry.
 

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If I'm using fixed sights my focus is on the front sight, target blurry.
That would be aimed fire then, not target focused
 

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Point shoulder utilizes the front sight post, at least as it was taught to me. The red dot aperture makes that extremely difficult, as I found out the first time I tried it.
Actually; I think a couple of things may be commingled here, as I’ve experienced the zipper being taught a couple of (minor) different ways, which may be somewhat confusing.

I learned the point shoulder position as being arm extened straight out from the shoulder, at shoulder height, which is below the shooter’s line of sight; sights not able to be aligned for any sight picture. I‘ve always shot point shoulder that way.

Now; the difference. At one of the later classes (which Mike attended); “the zipper‘ was presented as; one shot from 1/2 hip to the abdomen, a shot from from 3/4 hip COM, a shot from point shoulder COM, and the fourth shot to the head, using the sights.
Prior to that; I’d always fired the head shot from point shoulder. It does make sense to use the sights that are so close at that point anyway; I suppose. But; shooting from the point shoulder position is below line of sight, not using the sights.
If I’m not remembering this correctly; hopefully Brownie or EBL will set things straight, and correct me.
 

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Actually; I think a couple of things may be commingled here, as I’ve experienced the zipper being taught a couple of (minor) different ways, which may be somewhat confusing.

I learned the point shoulder position as being arm extened straight out from the shoulder, at shoulder height, which is below the shooter’s line of sight; sights not able to be aligned for any sight picture. I‘ve always shot point shoulder that way.

Now; the difference. At one of the later classes (which Mike attended); “the zipper‘ was presented as; one shot from 1/2 hip to the abdomen, a shot from from 3/4 hip COM, a shot from point shoulder COM, and the fourth shot to the head, using the sights.
Prior to that; I’d always fired the head shot from point shoulder. It does make sense to use the sights that are so close at that point anyway; I suppose. But; shooting from the point shoulder position is below line of sight, not using the sights.
If I’m not remembering this correctly; hopefully Brownie or EBL will set things straight, and correct me.
We did that drill at the class you are remembering. I remember it.
But I don’t think Brownie told us to use the sights for head shot. Least I didn’t. If you did you cheated. 😂
 

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Actually; I think a couple of things may be commingled here, as I’ve experienced the zipper being taught a couple of (minor) different ways, which may be somewhat confusing.

I learned the point shoulder position as being arm extened straight out from the shoulder, at shoulder height, which is below the shooter’s line of sight; sights not able to be aligned for any sight picture. I‘ve always shot point shoulder that way.

Now; the difference. At one of the later classes (which Mike attended); “the zipper‘ was presented as; one shot from 1/2 hip to the abdomen, a shot from from 3/4 hip COM, a shot from point shoulder COM, and the fourth shot to the head, using the sights.
Prior to that; I’d always fired the head shot from point shoulder. It does make sense to use the sights that are so close at that point anyway; I suppose. But; shooting from the point shoulder position is below line of sight, not using the sights.
If I’m not remembering this correctly; hopefully Brownie or EBL will set things straight, and correct me.
Re: 4th shot/head shot using sights. I didn't mention it that I can remember, and as you suggest, at that distance with the gun coming up from the last 3 anyway, sure bring the guns sights on threat as in a type 2 Enos focus, looking through the gun but at the threat. That last shot may also be with pistol QK as soon as the reference point is obtained. So I think I didn't mention using the sights specifically for the head shot, but if it works, it works. It was rare any of the students missed the head shot.

Yup, point shoulder is nose indexed gun at shoulder height and fully extrended, looking out over the gun at the threat
 

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Re: 4th shot/head shot using sights. I didn't mention it that I can remember, and as you suggest, at that distance with the gun coming up from the last 3 anyway, sure bring the guns sights on threat as in a type 2 Enos focus, looking through the gun but at the threat. That last shot may also be with pistol QK as soon as the reference point is obtained. So I think I didn't mention using the sights specifically for the head shot, but if it works, it works. It was rare any of the students missed the head shot.

Yup, point shoulder is nose indexed gun at shoulder height and fully extrended, looking out over the gun at the threat
No Sir; it wasn’t you.
 
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We did that drill at the class you are remembering. I remember it.
But I don’t think Brownie told us to use the sights for head shot. Least I didn’t. If you did you cheated. 😂
Actually; The Zipper‘s been taught at every class of Brownie’s or EBL’s that I’ve ever seen.
Your class was at Okee. Mike’s class was at Volusia.
 

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The dot cleaned up (refined) my draw.
Took me about 500 rounds to get my dot follow up speed acceptable.
I like being able to be target rather than front sight focused.
Please explain how using a red dot enhances target focused shooting?
If I'm using fixed sights my focus is on the front sight, target blurry.
That would be aimed fire then, not target focused


My focus on fixed sights versus the dot is different to me. (terminology picayune)

Suppressor height sights installed but going to the range happening today.
 
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