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IF your application is denied you have the right to request a hearing before an administrative judge. The is no charge but if it gets to that point hire a lawyer familiar with administrative law, and preferably one that knows gun law.
 

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The assumption you have a gun would NOT be legal and I doubt any Judge would issue a search warrant based on a license application.

Florida is NOT a registration state so there wouldn't be a reference to cross for your name ALTHOUGH if you have doubts as to your legal status to own, it would serve you well to be clear on the law and correct any mistakes in your record. IF you have a felony conviction, rights restoration may be possible but will take a lawyer and some time.

IF , OTOH, you are unaware of why you are denied or disagree with the accuracy of the information relied upon for the denial, you may be able to secure court records to prove you are eligible and the information used is faulty without an attorney by writing to the clerk of the court in the reporting jurisdiction.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks, FriDaddy

Thanks. It's been over 4 mos since check was cashed. I called T'hassee and was told my app was "in review." I don't know why and don't know how long review takes, but needless to say being in limbo sucks.
 

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You should ask for a supervisor and explain the length of time. He/she will at least tell you why. You may have to be on eternal wait but it might prove worth it. IF it is a mistaken id (you have a name similar to someone who has bad record or alias') or an old minor ajudication without conviction, they are waiting for confirmation from the home jurisdiction. IF you have been able to buy a firearm in Fl. and passed the Federal check, you should be good.
 

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Thanks. It's been over 4 mos since check was cashed. I called T'hassee and was told my app was "in review." I don't know why and don't know how long review takes, but needless to say being in limbo sucks.

So it hasn't been denied?
If it hasn't, great and welcome to the world of government. A long long time ago, the government worked for you and me (really just a fable I hear). Now, we work for the government.
I work with the gov. on a regular basis and I'm always left in awe and shaking my head.
Good luck. Fight the good fight.
Ho ho ho
Franklin
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the advice to speak to a supervisor. No, it hasn't been denied. As for working with the govt, do you mean to tell me that the govt can be slow/
non-responsive/mistaken? I'm shocked I tell you, shocked...
 

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The assumption you have a gun would NOT be legal and I doubt any Judge would issue a search warrant based on a license application.

Florida is NOT a registration state so there wouldn't be a reference to cross for your name ALTHOUGH if you have doubts as to your legal status to own, it would serve you well to be clear on the law and correct any mistakes in your record. IF you have a felony conviction, rights restoration may be possible but will take a lawyer and some time.

IF , OTOH, you are unaware of why you are denied or disagree with the accuracy of the information relied upon for the denial, you may be able to secure court records to prove you are eligible and the information used is faulty without an attorney by writing to the clerk of the court in the reporting jurisdiction.
Just a point of clarification...it wouldn't matter if they did assume he had a gun. You don't have to have a CWFL to own/possess/use a firearm. One can be denied for lots of reasons that would not preclude firearm possession.

Even if they denied someone for a felony conviction, DOACS is not a LE agency, and couldn't petition a warrant if they wanted to. Felons get denied all the time...they never end up in jail because of it.

Heck...even felons that DO get busted for having a firearm in their possession rarely, if ever, go back to prison because of that charge alone.

Where's Henryher when you need him???? :D
 

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Applications for any license in the State of Florida are "reviewed" for completions and then "reviewed" for issuance or denial. If you are denied then you receive a letter telling you of their intent to deny your application. The letter will also give you the information necessary with the Statutes to file for an administrative hearing.

In other words, they are still processing your application and nothing has been determined as of yet. My son called Monday Dec. 21st because he sent his application on September 1rst and has not received his permit yet, he is active military and has a squeaky clean record. They told him they are still working on the August applications and to be patient they will get around to his. I have the same advice for you. Be patient they will get around to yours eventually. My son was told that the FBI finger print check is the bottle neck. You never know if that is correct or a canned excuse they are using. In either case when they told you it was under "review" I am sure they meant they are still working on it and not that there is a problem. If unsure just be frank and ask if there is a problem with your application.

The State is overwhelmed with applications and they do not want to make any mistakes by rushing the process. Any responsible person would want the process to be done correctly rather than quickly. If the State makes mistakes and issues to persons they shouldn't it is going to give ammunition to the anti CWFL liberals. They are already introducing legislation to make it easier to revoke our licenses we don't need to help them by making mistakes during permit processing.

As to possession of a gun. They are non law enforcement bureaucrats trained to process an application and nothing else. They are not payed nor interested in anything other than your application so don't worry about your gun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I appreciate the many informative responses. Will follow-up with T'hassee by phone. If they're just now getting to August apps, I'll be patient awhile longer.
 

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I am immensely frustrated by this advice to be patient. The law is clear, 30 days to review for completeness, and 90 days to review for approval. At 90 days they should issue, and seek revocation proceedings if a problem is discovered. Alternatively if they receive a default issuance notice, they should immediately issue the license.

Overwhelmed is no excuse. They have millions of dollars in a trust fund for licensing. Politicians have attempted to seize that money for other purposes, and have refused to spend it for its designated purpose.

Tell me one other organization or group that would tolerate such blatant lawbreaking regarding their issue. Why are we?
 

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I am immensely frustrated by this advice to be patient. The law is clear, 30 days to review for completeness, and 90 days to review for approval. At 90 days they should issue, and seek revocation proceedings if a problem is discovered.

Revocation of what? you can't revoke something that doesn't exist. You mean deny the application.

Alternatively if they receive a default issuance notice, they should immediately issue the license.

Overwhelmed is no excuse. They have millions of dollars in a trust fund for licensing. Politicians have attempted to seize that money for other purposes, and have refused to spend it for its designated purpose.

Tell me one other organization or group that would tolerate such blatant lawbreaking regarding their issue. Why are we?
You can try that and see if you get the license that way. It might work.
 

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I am immensely frustrated by this advice to be patient. The law is clear, 30 days to review for completeness, and 90 days to review for approval. At 90 days they should issue, and seek revocation proceedings if a problem is discovered.

Revocation of what? you can't revoke something that doesn't exist. You mean deny the application.

Alternatively if they receive a default issuance notice, they should immediately issue the license.

Overwhelmed is no excuse. They have millions of dollars in a trust fund for licensing. Politicians have attempted to seize that money for other purposes, and have refused to spend it for its designated purpose.

Tell me one other organization or group that would tolerate such blatant lawbreaking regarding their issue. Why are we?
You can try that and see if you get the license that way. It might work.
I believe Fridaddy meant
At 90 days they should issue, and seek revocation proceedings if a problem is discovered after the permit is issued.
 

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Let me clarify something for every one here. I worked in different capacities from processor to administrator for a State agency in permit processing. The rules that apply to the concealed weapons permit are the same and the process has to be very similar since the same rules apply. I am certain of the nomenclature used by the agencies and also the time frames and process because they are consistent througout the State agencies. There are things that may differ in the way the agency handles problems with applications. Let me give you a for instance.

Check processing - The agency I worked for had a seperate group of persons trained to recieve the permit application fees. All checks were removed from the package and processed within 48 hours of receipt. The database was updated at the time and the fee included as complete. In other words no check was left hanging around till the processor got around to it. The time clock started the moment the application entered the door and the fee was correct. In other words, if the fee was correct then the application was entered into the database with the receive date of the day the application was received which was stamped on the application by the receiveing clerk. Any one could look at the dabase screen and tell if the money was receiced and on what day the application was received.

I don't know how DACS deals with the checks.

Completeness reviews - all applications were reviewd for completeness within 30 days. There was absolutely no tolerance for going beyond the 30 days. If the application had all the information and the check was received in the right amount the application was deemed complete and the database updated to reflect the application was complete. If it was not complete a letter was sent to the applicant requesting that the application be completed and the clock was stopped at this point.

Application - once the application was deemed complete and all information was received the processor reviewed the application package for permitting criteria. Meaning that the requirements of the Statutes were met. If there was a problem with meeting the permit criteria then a letter was sent requesting that the applicant explain the deficiency in the application. The applicant was given 30 days to respond. If the applicant satisfied the discrepancy then the permit was issued. If the applicant could not satisfy the requirements or failed to respond in 30 days an intent to deny was mailed to the applicant. This intent gave the applicant a second chance to come up with the requirements before the actual denial. Of course any denial can be challenged in an administrative hearing. Always keep in mind that the administrative judge can not order the agency to issue a permit. The judge can only give his recommendations. The agency can always go against the judge. Rare but it happens. At this point the applicant would have to file a law suit against the agency. On a slow year it takes about 6 months to get on the docket for a hearing and about another three months to get a finding by the judge. Then you have to wait for the agency to issue the permit if they decide to follow the judge's recommendation.

Default permits - I do not like to recommend to anyone to request a permit or license by default. The reason is because I don't know how seriously the agency takes the defaults and how they are going to react. I can tell you that the agency I worked for took default permits very seriously and in the 15 years I worked there I never had a permit go default on me or my staff. On the rare occasions that someone requested a permit by default the agency refused to give it. Once the request came in the process for the permit came to a hault and the clock was stopped. The application was then sent to the main office in Tallahassee to the Office of General Council and it became a legal matter. If the processor told the attorneys that the person would have gotten the permit anyway then they were told to issue the permit and that was that. If the processor had any questions at all about the application then the attorneys sat on the permit and the applicant was denied and given a chance to challenge the agency at an administrative hearing. You can not act as though you have a permit by default till you have a physical permit or license in hand. So you are stuck waiting till the legal process unfolds which can take over a year without guarantee the agency will issue at the end. And I don't care how many rules or what claims of legality you have or can make. If you are caught carrying without a physical permit in hand and are arrested the judge you will go before can not issue you a permit or make a decision based on the permit. He will request the agency to tell him if you have a default permit and the agency will say no we don't think he meets the criteria for a default permit and the administrative process to determine the outcome has not been satisfied. At this point you are in violation. I know this because we enforced in court against developers that felt they should get a permit by default but did not have one in hand because they had not gone to administrative hearing. I can remember at least four of them and the judge ruled against them in every case. Carrying a concealed gun without the physical permit in hand is a lot more serious than clearing a lot for development without the permit. So I can't see the outcome being in favor of the applicant if they have to go to court.

Now DACS may not take a default permit as seriously as my agency did. I don't know. It is obvious that they do not take the statutory clock as seriously by the fact they are exceeding it consistently with every application. The agency I worked for would fire a processor if they had more than three applications go default. It was the most serious offense in permitting. DACS told me a few months ago that they had an exemption from the Statutory clock. I don't see how they could but I don't have a compelling reason to challenge them on that.

So if some one wants to request a license by default they can try it. I heard that some folks have had positive results on this with DACS. I would venture to say that they probably felt they would issue the permit anyway. I would also venture to say that if they feel there may be a disqualifying factor in the application they will entrench and not issue without a legal hearing.

As for me and my son who is waiting on his permit I can tell you this. It took DACS about four months to issue my CWFL and it seems it is going to take over six months for my son to get his. I am 58 years old and have been without a concealed weapons permit for 57 years. Waiting a few months for it was no problem. If I did without it for 57 years what is a couple of months more or less. I told my son the same thing, be patient, you did not have a permit all this time so what does it matter if you have to wait a while longer for it.

If they don't see a problem with the application and would issue anyway chances are you will get it right away. But if they have any problems with the application or feel you do not qualify for the permit for some reason I would think they would challenge your right to a default permit. If they act like my agency did then you are not afforded the chance to clarify any discrepancies (like redoing the fingerprints) in the application so they can issue it. Instead, the application will become a legal matter and you will have to go to a hearing to get it which will take about another year. Then again DACS may decide that letting someone that doesn't qualify for a carry permit have the permit is not that big of a deal. But I doubt it.

As for revocation. My agency revoked only one permit in south Florida that I can remember in the 15 years I was there and it took over two years to do it. By that time the damage was done. It is not as easy to revoke a permit as people think. There are legal proceedings and a bunch of hurdles before an agency can revoke a permit. Also the burden of proof falls on the agency once they issue the permit. While the application is still in process the burden of proof falls on the applicant.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Arrived Today!

My permit arrived today, after more than 5 months. No info as to why it was under review, but that's not important. Thanks again to all who responded.
 

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My permit arrived today, after more than 5 months. No info as to why it was under review, but that's not important. Thanks again to all who responded.
Happy for you! :thumsup
 

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My permit arrived today, after more than 5 months. No info as to why it was under review, but that's not important. Thanks again to all who responded.
Wow, unfortunately you must have been one of the end guys in last years disasterous backlog. Now I had a freind who went to the DOA office where they took his info on a computer, did the prints there and ten days later he had his permit in hand (before you got yours at five months). I know my renewal took less than two weeks.

However, in any case ... CONGRATULATIONS!:drinks
 

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Congratulations!
The world, it's now a safer place.:drinks
 
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