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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just read an article about an early morning Dennys robbery. Two BGs walked in, brandished a firearm and robbed the register and patrons. It got me thinking:

Who would you take down first? The BG with the gun possibly further away or the BG w/o a gun who is wanting ur wallet, watch etc?

What type of liability do you assume by protecting yourself at the expense of others being hit?

The obvious media mentality is be passive and give them what they want.

How far do you let things go before you protect yourself?

Carrying a weapon has far more consequences than most realize.
 

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Heres what i would do.

1st. I would keep an eye out for the one with the gun, since that is the main threat.
2nd. I would keep a second eye out for the other one just so i woulld know where he is at all times.
3rd. If the one with the gun made a threatening gesture toward me or my family, i would immediately drop him where he stood, no questions asked.:pistols
4th. After i took out the gunman, then i would turn around and give the other BG a look at my smoking barrell and order him to the ground, if he refused and made a move toward me, i would drop him.

Unless the BG's popped one off as soon as they came in, like in the ceiling to get everyones attention, then i would drop the gun holder as soon as i could get a shot. Once the gunholder goes down, the other BG should run off, if he doesn't and makes a move for the gun, he goes down then and there.

Just my 2 cents worth.

My job is not to talk the BG's out of comitting a crime, thats the PoPo's job.
my job is to protect myself and my family when and if i feel threatened...And thats what i'm gonna do!!!!!:thumsup
 

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Sprtrkr

Your plan sounds VERY realistic and doable, should the need arise.


:drinks:drinks
 

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Two comments.

I hear a human body makes a pretty good bullet stop. You may keep that in mind when trying to determine who should be dropped first.

If the bad guy already has his weapon drawn I'm going to consider him a threat. I will not ask him to drop his weapon after I've shot his buddy.
 

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I'd be interested in knowing the legal aspect of it. Is it considered self defense if the guy w/o the gun demands you wallet? Obviously the intent is there and if you resist, what then? I've been contemplating this question/scenario lately.
 

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let me clarify a little, LOL

I may not have made that point very clear, but my plan is to always drop the one with the gun first, since he is the bigger threat.
If one has a gun, and one does not, once you drop the one WITH the gun, for some reason, the one without the gun is no longer quite as cocky as he was when his buddy had the gun:rolf
 

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My apologies, I misread the earlier post and thought they were both armed.

There are a bunch of ways you could play it depending on a lot of things with one armed and one unarmed.

Can you take the unarmed one hostage? Is the armed one in position to do the same?

If you shot the armed one, could the unarmed one take control of your weapon?
 

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Just read an article about an early morning Dennys robbery. Two BGs walked in, brandished a firearm and robbed the register and patrons. It got me thinking:

Who would you take down first? The BG with the gun possibly further away or the BG w/o a gun who is wanting ur wallet, watch etc?
All you know at that point is that only one of them is visibly armed...from a purely tactical standpoint, it would be prudent to assume that they are both armed. Having said that, there are several variables that would need to be evaluated (and pretty quickly, I might add) such as angles of fire, the presence of and relative position of bystanders, availability of cover, etc.

What type of liability do you assume by protecting yourself at the expense of others being hit?
You are completely responsible for every bullet that leaves your barrel, so DON'T MISS!

The obvious media mentality is be passive and give them what they want.
F*** that. :D

How far do you let things go before you protect yourself?
Up to the point that I perceive myself or others as being in mortal danger.

Carrying a weapon has far more consequences than most realize.
Eye opening, isn't it?
 

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The law says you can use deadly force if someone is committing a forceable felony. Armed robbery is definitely a forceable felony so the BG with the gun will get hit first once I have a clear shot with no innocent people close by or beyond the BG. I don't know if I could deal with it if I shot an innocent person so I would make sure that my actions are swift, deliberate and sure. If the other perp decides to run away I would let him. If not and he confronts me then he would suffer the same fate as the other.
 

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"Who would you take down first? The BG with the gun possibly further away or the BG w/o a gun who is wanting ur wallet, watch etc?"

I've been tossing this around in my head. My thinking would be that the one going around grabbing everyone's wallet is not a lethal threat since he is just robbing. However, they guy with the gun is allowing him to rob because he has the restaurant hostage to his gun. Does the guy with the gun need to be pointing at you for it to be considered self defense or is his mere presence with a gun enough to justify self defense? Or would they be seen as a collective threat since they are working in tandem?

I ask because I was being considered for jury duty earlier this year. Apparently, two young men were being charged for holding up a liquor store at gun point. Each of them had their own attorney and they made sure to only charge the one with the gun with extra felony charges. The other guy was back peddling out of that charge because he didn't actually have the gun in his hand and was not going to take the fall for that charge.

If they guy collecting wallets was standing in front of you and you decided not to give him your wallet do you wait for the guy with the gun to get closer then take care of him? Obviously, the guy with the gun is the threat but if he is not in range and the other guy is demanding your wallet, then what? It's not like you can shoot an unarmed man, right? On the other hand he wouldn't be robbing if he didn't have his friend with the gun.

I'm still confused as to what to do.

MamaBear
 

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How's this for a response?

When BG #2 demands my wallet, I'll loudly tell him to go f*** himself while I stick my gun in his face...if he doesn't immediately flee, BANG! One down. Then it's on to BG #1. And that will all take less time than it took you to read this.

FWIW, a somewhat similar scenario (2 BGs, only one actually armed) occurred at a Blockbuster store in Orange City back in '02. They both got shot. :thumsup

Here's a link to the story:

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/Information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=3234
 

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Well, I guess it's only when you keep reading, processing information and getting the mind ready that you feel you would be prepared to react in such a way. Obviously, it is understood that one goes to the range and keeps practicing but the mind needs to play out these scenarios as well.

The story was an interesting read. I was concerned that the shooter's name was published even though on our application our names are supposed to remain protected from such reporting. I thought it was my right to be concealed from such exposure. Maybe I misunderstood what that little filled in dot was all about. I guess I need to go read up on that.

MamaBear
 

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FWIW, a somewhat similar scenario (2 BGs, only one actually armed) occurred at a Blockbuster store in Orange City back in '02. They both got shot. :thumsup

Here's a link to the story:

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/Information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=3234
Thanks for that link Deadeyedick. That was exactly as the scenario in this thread. Check out this statement from the anti's from the article

Arthur Hayhoe, the executive director of the Florida Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, said this case is "a tough call" for a group that favors strict gun laws.

He said he won't "second-guess" a parent defending his son, but Hayhoe is troubled with the second shooting.

"It's still a shooting of an unarmed person, and that's always troubling," he said.And he predicted the story will wind up in the National Rifle Association's publication, The American Rifleman, and its column, Armed Citizen, which recounts the stories of people who use guns to defend themselves.
I guess they wanted the 2nd BG to get the gun and shoot first then it would have been a justified shooting.
 

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2 guys with guns walk into a Denny's... stop me if you've heard this one...

I'm going to assume if one has a gun the other does too. I'm also going to assume there's a third guy outside in the getaway vehicle.

I'm not likely to want to go face down on the floor in the first place. If I'm alert enough - and we all should be alert if we're carrying - when the armed guys come in the restaurant I'm going to try to slip under a table. I want to fire from a concealed position or from behind cover (like a booth) if I can. I'm also going to want to position myself where I can see the door in case the third accomplice (see assumptions above) sees trouble and comes in to assist.

Just my two cents. I thought about this alot when the news story hit. Not that I'd ever be caught in Denny's at 3 AM.

- Str8Shooter
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
My assumption is the guy nearby wanting my watch, wallet etc is armed also. He'll go down first and I'd move to the next nearest threat. Even if he's not armed he could be close enough to cause me bodily harm or interrupt my shot at the other gunman.

A real life scenario to consider.
 

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My main concern is my family. I would want to take down the gunman first but not if I have to leave my family alone with the second guy to do it. The one closest will be the one I drop first. Having said this, I have to admit that chances are that if the gunman is dropped first then the second will flee since he will not have cover. If he tries for the gun he would be stupid, the time it would take for him to run pick it up and aim it would be more than sufficient for me to target his vitals and get off several rounds. If there is one outside he will be gone as soon as he hears the shots fired and his buddies not coming back.
 
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