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When I was a teenager in high school back in the Islands I remember on many occasions where a thief or burglar would get cornered by all the folks in the neighborhood and he got what was coming to him :smack. In America things are different because we don't do vigilantism and we fear lawsuits and the like. Now added to that we can carry a weapon which has specific rules regarding it's legal use.

With theft and crime in general on the rise I would like to find out from the members here. Now that you are armed, are you reluctant to get involved in fighting crime in your neighborhood, corner store, supermarket etc unless it's immediately affecting you. We definitely are not LEO's so do we just dial 911 or do we get involved and risk a dreaded escalation if things get beyond our control.

I'm asking this question based on the conversation in this thread http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1036
 

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That's a real good question NK. I suppose we can have a basic idea in our heads where we draw that line, and still each situation will be unique to itself and you will hopefully make the wise and correct decision at the time.

For me, the first thing I would try to be is a good witness. I would look at two groups of crimes, violent and property. Property crime would make me call the police or notify store personnel if I saw something blaring. I personally would not care to be responsible for another person's death over a property crime.

Violent crime would be much more difficult, as you want to balance your response of trying to save a victim from grave and imminent danger or death, yet not interjecting yourself wrongly into a situation.

Things are not always clear and understandable and interjecting oneself into a situation is really a last resort for me at least. We had some spirited discussion in a recent thread concerning getting involved in a domestic dispute, and the legal lines get blurry very quickly.

It was a simpler time growing up 40-50 years ago. We see how police are scrutinized over every action they take, so when we choose to get involved, we as private citizens are subject to the same legal scrutiny.

If you choose to get involved, be cognizant of the possibilities.
 

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Speaking only for myself, I carry not because I am looking for trouble, but because it is out there. I live in Orange County. We are doing great in the murders department once again this year. Great numbers. I never go into a pharmacy anymore without a firearm. Ain't gonna happen. I worry more about parking lots than the stores. Even before I could carry legally, I had a loaded firearm in the car. Twice, I pulled it out, waiting for the worse. Both times the problem dissipated, but I was ready and hadn't shown it to anyone. When I bought my wife a handgun, I told her, "If the fecal matter hits the ventilator, I'll worry about getting you out of jail if you are still alive. Use it if you think your life is at risk."

I saw a video of a guy that walked into the deli at a Super Wal-Mart, pulled out a huge knife and started trying to carve up his ex-wife like a Christmas turkey. An older guy looked over the counter, pulled out a large piece and popped this guy 3 times. That ended the guy's turkey carving days forever. The lady said afterwards that the man was an angel sent by God. Pretty moving stuff. From this I learned 2 things:
1. Carry whenever possible
2. Don't shop at a Super Wal-Mart :D

The guy in Texas that shot the two dudes with a shotgun in the back: He got off because experts can prove that a guy can turn around faster than the trigger can be pulled. So, if they had been confronting him and turned to run, he could have already been pulling the trigger but they turned faster. The prosecutors knew there was no way they could nail this good citizen even if they wanted to. BTW: One of the guys had a crowbar in his hand. I'm not sure what the other guy was carrying, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a Rosary. As an afterthought, the guys were both illegals and convicts. ta ta dudes.

And then there's the 11 year old girl in Montana that saw two evil looking dudes heading for the house right after her dad left for work. She grabbed a 12-gauge, shucked one in the barrel and dropped to her knee as they kicked in the front door. Shot the first guy right in the berries. He was DRT: dead right there. The other guy, after being shot, staggered out to the front yard where he also expired. These guys were illegal aliens that had already broken into another, stabbed the homeowner to death and stolen his 45acp handgun. Little did they know that she had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine years old. :thumsup

And if you pay close attention to the news, as crime increases and people defend themselves more, the DA's are a lot more reluctant to put an honest citizen away. I get the feeling they are looking for reasons to not prosecute. Of course, there will be exceptions. But once again, those appear to be pretty obvious.

The bottom line: I hope I never have to shoot someone. I do not know what my 230gr hollow points will do to a human body. I can only imagine what might go through my mind if I did. But I have to look at the other side too: what if I could have saved an innocent victim's life but did nothing? That would be very hard to deal with and would stay with me for the rest of my days. I keep seeing that old guy at Wal-Mart, pulling that pistola out of nowhere and going to work... Talk about a Good Samaritan.

Remember: 911 - When Seconds Count, the Police are only Minutes Away

They just can't be everywhere all of the time. They're busy catching people going 8 over the limit or responding to false alarms at someone's house for the umpteenth time.
 

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Wow NK thats a hard one to even think of,I guess I would have to wait for the time to arise but i do wonder about certain situations and I don't believe i could stand by and watch someone get hurt I don't think i could live with myself s said if it were a property factor Items could be replaced a life could never be replaced.
 

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I always find it interesting that some people are more willing to get involved because they have a concealed carry license and have a gun with them. I kind of compare that to the old courage in a bottle saying. For me I'm not more or less likely to get involved, my level stays the same. There will be times I'll step right in the middle of things. There will be times that I dont' have a dog in the fight and will not get directly involved although I might make a good witness. There will be times that my direct involvement could make the situation worse and I stay out of it which is something you rarely hear anyone talk about. This applies whether I'm carrying or not.

You can say whatever you want when you type on here, but when you're in the situation you have to evaluate each one. That license isn't going to make you bullet proof and it isn't going to make up for other skills you might lack. Like I said I'm amazed at some of the people that get a license and can take on any BG. It's like the guy that's never taken a punch, you can say it's can't be that bad but if you have ever taken a good shot you know better.

Do yourself and your loved ones a favor regardless of what you choose to do. Be smart about it and be careful so they don't have to worry every time you go out.
 

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I always find it interesting that some people are more willing to get involved because they have a concealed carry license and have a gun with them.
Or maybe they carry because they're already the kind of people who are willing to get involved.
 

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This is the kinda question that makes you go, "Hmmmm."

I don't think I could stand by knowing someone was being physically hurt by BGs. Can't say for sure here what my response would be, though, depending largely on the instant situation. We all go through various scenarios in our heads but I really wonder what we'd actually do. It's never exactly like what we picture in our minds simply because no one can predict what others will do.
 

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anyone remember that subway beating where a man was beaten with a claw hammer while others just sat there? what about the gray hound deal where the man was beheaded while other passengers just sat there? i dont think i could just sit by armed or not but i dont think i would get between a man and his gf or wife argueeing in a parking lot i would probably just do as others have said and be a good wittness. just my 2 cents
 

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. I do not know what my 230gr hollow points will do to a human body.
I unfortunately do know what it will do....... first hand...... AND it is not pretty... Buck Shot is worse. Even worse than the sight, is the smell..... Copious amounts of blood has an odor that is never forgotten. That said, if a BG needs shooting, don't let the gore worry you. BUT make sure that image is one you can live with.

I have no problem with the "image" if the alternative is seeing my loved ones (or myself) in a similar state of leakage. As far as a complete stranger goes.. dunno... If I were at a very close distance as opposed to 100 feet i would think more prone to act. I guess it is a wait and see thing.
 

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Just be sure what you are getting yourself into and that you can truly handle the situation.

Real life story..

Many years a go a former employee of mine (I had fired him two days before this incident) was having an argument with his girlfriend in front of the resteraunt in which she worked. Two good Samaritans walking past see him trying to pull the girl from her car and step in to help her out. The good Samaritans now have their hands full with a very pissed off Marine trained in the finer points of hand to hand combat. The Marine kills both Samaritans in the struggle after one of them pulls a knife.

The Marine was found not guilty at trail due to the fact that the good Samaritans jumped him. It did not matter that they were trying to help a damsel in distress.
 

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I'm with FLRon on this. Property damage etc. I'm a good witness for tag numbers, descriptions and sequence of events.

Altercations between spouses or partners are best left alone. You'll usually end up with two angry people wanting to beat on you. Call the LEOs and let them intervene.
 

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Just be sure what you are getting yourself into and that you can truly handle the situation.

Real life story..

Many years a go a former employee of mine (I had fired him two days before this incident) was having an argument with his girlfriend in front of the resteraunt in which she worked. Two good Samaritans walking past see him trying to pull the girl from her car and step in to help her out. The good Samaritans now have their hands full with a very pissed off Marine trained in the finer points of hand to hand combat. The Marine kills both Samaritans in the struggle after one of them pulls a knife.

The Marine was found not guilty at trail due to the fact that the good Samaritans jumped him. It did not matter that they were trying to help a damsel in distress.
An excellent example of people interjecting themselves into situations that should be left alone, and just call 911 and be a good witness.

They messed with the wrong guy, and when they were getting their arses kicked physically, one pulled a knife and escalated the situation to deadly force.

The Marine made them pay for their poor judgment, and did us proud:drinks

The Marine was found not guilty at trail due to the fact that the good Samaritans jumped him. It did not matter that they were trying to help a damsel in distress.


There's a HUGE lesson in that scenario here. Hope everyone can find it. Thanks for sharing it dually

Brownie
 

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Or maybe they carry because they're already the kind of people who are willing to get involved.

There's a time and place for everything, the possessing and carrying of a firearm should not dictate actions [ to include those who are ones to get involved with or without a firearm on them ].

Brownie
 

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With theft and crime in general on the rise I would like to find out from the members here. Now that you are armed, are you reluctant to get involved in fighting crime in your neighborhood, corner store, supermarket etc unless it's immediately affecting you. We definitely are not LEO's so do we just dial 911 or do we get involved and risk a dreaded escalation if things get beyond our control.
That is indeed a good question.

It is all going to depend on the individual and the situation.

If I am in a parking lot and a person is being mugged, there is no question that I am going to come to their aid.

I am doing so NOT to be a crime fighter, but to aid another human being who is in trouble from a predator, and possibly in fear of their life.

My main goal will be to act as a deterent if possible, use my experience to order him to the ground to wait for a LEO to respond. If nothing else I will scare him off so the victim can go home safe.

As far as property crime, if I see someone stealing from a store, I will be a good witness and call the LEO's.

If I see someone kicking in my neighbors back door ... that is going to be a question that I will have to answer when the time comes.

At this time though I will have to say that I would act, as I hope my neighbors would act. I will call LEO's and observe, but if I see them coming out with property BEFORE the LEO's arrive, I will intervene with the intent on getting them to drop the property and driving them off.

I know I am going to get flamed here but, I have the prior experience and I know what I am doing. I have caught someone in the act of a business burglary, confronted them inside the building at Oh-Dark-Thirty in the morning, did what was necessary, made the arrest, and got the conviction.

The mistake the guy in Texas made was .... once the BG turns to run or flee, deadly force is no longer an option. You have accomplished what you wanted by being a deterent and driving the BG away.

Now, I am talking for me. I am not suggesting that everybody is experienced or qualified enough to do so. I recommend that if you are not, that you do as FLRon stated, be a good witness and call the LEO's.
 

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I know I am going to get flamed here but, I have the prior experience and I know what I am doing. I have caught someone in the act of a business burglary, confronted them inside the building at Oh-Dark-Thirty in the morning, did what was necessary, made the arrest, and got the conviction.

That word in bold is one of the biggest differences between the various answers and how people should be considering their actions.

I don't see a flame starting with that answer TampaSsgt, it's a well thought out response based on ones prior experiences in similar circumstances.

To answer the OP's question as well-----------

If you have the conviction to get involved, you have to have the conviction to see it through to the end, good, bad or ugly. Once it starts you are IN IT and need to stay focused. Now that I'm older, I pick and choose my fights very carefully. Once upon a time that might not have been the case looking back on things. Fortunately, experiences also kept me ahead of the curve most of the time.

Brownie
 

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I have a fun story about getting involved in a domestic dispute...

My roommate and I were watching TV one afternoon when his dog started barking. We looked outside to see one of our neighbors beating his wife on her mother's front lawn directly across the street from our house...and when I say beating, I mean she's suppine on the ground and he's kneeling over her striking her with a closed fist. Well gentlemen, if you want to slap your woman around in the privacy of your own home, I have no power to stop you...but when I see some guy assaulting a woman in public (in front of God and everyone, as my Dad would say), you just made it my business.

We both armed ourselves with handguns (concealed) and went outside with the dog (a 90 lb. Akita). We then instruct this individual to cease and desist, to which he replies we should mind our own : censored business. He then yanks his wife up off the ground by her arm and starts dragging her back to their house (which is three doors down from our home) and they both go inside.

We then knock on the door of their next door neighbor, who happens to be a bomb squad tech with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, and tell him what just happened. While he goes inside to call for a beat car, Mr. Wife Beater exits his residence with a shotgun in hand and my roommate and I both immediately draw down on him.

At this point we have a Mexican standoff...we both have our pistols trained on him and he's alternately pointing the shotgun at each of us. I guess he figured he could only get one of us before we got him, so he told us to : censored ourselves, jumped in his car and took off.

Months later, after a stint in rehab, Mr. Wife Beater turns out to be fairly normal person and came over to our house to apologize...and to thank us for not killing him. We both assured him that we were in no hurry to do so.

Looking back now, I realize that, from a strictly tactical standpoint, we should have shot him, and that our hesitation could have cost us our lives. But I feel pretty good that we all came out of that situation unscathed.
 

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Now that I'm older, I pick and choose my fights very carefully. Once upon a time that might not have been the case looking back on things. Fortunately, experiences also kept me ahead of the curve most of the time.

Brownie
Couldn't have said that better myself!
 

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Looking back now, I realize that, from a strictly tactical standpoint, we should have shot him, and that our hesitation could have cost us our lives. But I feel pretty good that we all came out of that situation unscathed.

You read the situation correctly, your instincts were good, and everyone got to stay above ground just a little longer sir.

Could have gone the other way, everyone got lucky that day.

Brownie
 
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