[Timbal]

Hey, all!

My first range report, so please be merciful. LOL

Okay, a bit of background information first, it'll be relevant later. First, I have pretty limited firearms experience, all of it stemming from my time in the Army. Even then, I'm more familiar with the M-16 than say the Beretta 92FS, since I used the M-16 far more than the Beretta. On top of that, all of that experience was back in the mid-90's, so I'm quite rusty. At this point, I'm pretty much starting over again.

Okay, that out of the way, on to my report!

As some of you know, I picked up a S&W Sigma 9MM at the Orlando Gun Show the last time they were in the area, back in late November. For various budgetary reasons, I haven't been able to get it to the range until Wednesday, the 31st (Talk about ending the year with a bang! LOL).

I met up with my wife's cousin at The Shooting Gallery, across the street from the Orange Co jail. The staff there are really good guys even if the range itself is a bit meh. Decent prices, though.

I had picked up a box of 250 Remington UMC cartridges over at Walmart previously, so I had planned to put 200 of them downrange, keeping the remaining 50 for later. The general idea was to get a feel for my new battle buddy, get re-acquainted with shooting, and the like, not to mention have a bit of fun in the process.

My wife's cousin had brought with him his Taurus 24/7 9mm and his 12 gauge, plus a few boxes of cartridges (The brand names escape me at the moment).

We set up shop, and start to let them fly. He starts off by shooting the Taurus off first, and the first clip goes by quite nicely, and gets a pretty decent grouping. The second clip starts to give him a bit of problems, as the slide isn't quite returning back to where it should return to (Sorry, don't know the technical term for that), requiring him to push the slide the rest of the way back to the ready state with his thumb. It's odd, but it only happened once, so we shrug it off.

It was my turn, and I let my own cartridges fly. The target is about 20 feet away, and my grouping isn't the best in the world, to say the least. =D

I'm pretty sure it's my grip, so I experiment around a bit, and my grouping improves some. Finally, the grouping gets somewhat consistent, but it's shooting a bit high and to the right, and that is consistent shot after shot. At this point I think the sights might need a slight adjustment, but then we get distracted by shooting the 12 gauge downrange with birdshot, buckshot, and solid slugs. =D

After the 12 gauge action is done and over with, we get back to shooting the Taurus. It starts to give him some serious trouble, eventually causing a cartridge to get stuck in the chamber and the action refusing to open. I tell him to just leave it pointing downrange and get the range master. He does, and the range master manages to clear it, noting that we might want to try a different brand of cartridges that he was using. I offer him my Remington cartridges, which works flawlessly. I then try his cartridges in my Sigma, and they all work flawlessly.

I ask him to take a few pictures of me putting several downrange, mainly so I could get a critique of my grip:





While taking these pictures, the cousin said that he saw that as soon as I compensated for the slight right and upward drift, it was steel on target.

Then I set the camera on the shelf, set it to video mode, then set it to record:



This video showed a great deal for the after-action review as to my grip. Apparently it's not 100% straight, as it's twisted a tiny bit. Also, after each shot, I don't return back to the same spot, and I drift quite a bit, especially while firing the second clip. Oh, the last few rounds in the second clip weren't being shot for any sort of accuracy, I just wanted to shoot them as fast as I could. =D

The cousin tried the Sigma, and in his hands, it was dead on-target, completely telling me that I need some work to do. We tried a mix of ranges, and out to 40 feet, it can get challenging to hit the X ring, especially with the factory sights, but it can certainly hit center body mass at that range just fine.

Overall, I'm more than quite pleased with it. Essentially out of the box, it shot just fine, with no problems whatsoever. I'm probably going to have to wait another month and a half to recover enough funds to head back to the range, so that's a bummer. On the plus side, I had loads of fun (Especially when we had a small audience when that 12 gauge was going off =D), and can't wait to go back.

As an afterward, I showed my sister-in-law the video, and she was surprised that you can shoot at a range without any sort of license or permit. So the next time I go to the range, she wants to tag along. =D

 

[NkmG19]

Thanks for the report Timbal. For me the more I shoot and practice the right technique the better I do. I don't think I'm qualified to critique your grip but your thumb on the supporting hand should be below the thumb on you shooting hand. All in all you are getting rounds downrange and that's a good thing. :thumsup

 

[Red Dawg]

As NKM pointed out, your thumbs look a little awkward but you have to be comfortable with your grip as well. I noticed a couple of things you could work on. 1. You should be using more of your finger tip (i.e. first digit of your trigger finger). 2. You look to be slapping the trigger rather than squeezing the trigger. 3. You also need to make sure that the webbing between your hand is as high as you can comfortably get it on the back of the pistol and still control it. 4. Make sure that your wrist and forearm are ligned up as straight as possible (this helps to diminish recoil). 5. Check your stance to make sure you are putting weight on your front foot (lean into the shot a little). 6. And, can't quite tell by looking at the video but you should have a little push pull going on (push with your gun hand forward and pull with your support hand backwards.

Maybe Brownie, Swamprat, or Deadeye can chime in and give your more pointers.

 

[brownie]

Timbal was basically using the grip I have used and continue to use since the early 70's.

I use "thumbs locked down" as he was, but I know SwampRat uses the more modern "flagged thumbs" where both thumbs are pointed downrange and the support thumb is under the strong thumb.

Timbal,

Try that same grip, complete Iso stance, and use equal pressure with both hands on the gun. If you are squeezing the gun with X force, use the same force with the support hand. In the video, it appears you have good control of the firearm under recoil. If the gun is shooting high and right consistently, the rear sight may need to be drifted a little. Shooting high could be the gun is not regulated for that bullet weight, but more likely you need to use a 6' O clock sight picture with that gun.

As long as you know where it hits, and it's not that far off the intended point of impact, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Brownie

 

[Timbal]

Big thumbs up!

NkmG19, Red Dawg, Brownie, thank you all for the feedback!

So far, that grip is the most comfortable, but I'll take your suggestions in mind since I'm positive that if I change it a bit, I'll get better accuracy. Interesting how just a slight grip change can change your accuracy!

Once I can get back to the range, I'll test the suggestions out and report results.

Thanks again, hopefully this thread will be helpful to another newbie down the road! :thumsup :drinks

 

[Cthulhu]

I also use the "thumbs forward" grip. However, that grip is generally a Bad Idea (TM) when shooting revolvers. Timbal's grip looks pretty good for revolver shooting, and I'm wondering if that's where his shooting background lies.

Even if he doesn't point the support hand thumb forward, it may be helpful to cam the wrist forward a little, to get more of the support hand palm supporting the left side of the grip.

As far as linking your grouping with your grip, the grip is part of it, but the main factor is CONSISTENCY of your grip. You can have what looks like the goofiest grip in the world to everyone else, but as long as you can acquire that grip consistently, then your groupings be better.

-JT

 

[Ghost]

Timbal, I had a Sigma back a few years ago. It looks to me like you're used to shooting a revolver so I think your putting your finger too far into the trigger. Try just putting the pad of the tip of your finger on the trigger. That should help put you back towards the center of the target. If it doesn't just adjust the rear sight. The other thing I'll mention is my Sigma would shoot high if I used 115 grain bullets. It was much better w/ 124 grain. If memory serves me I believe they were setup by S&W to use 124 grain self defense ammo. For target shooting I used to set the sights under the spot I wanted to hit and not use the dots. Good luck and keep practicing.

 

[Timbal]

Cthulhu, Ghost, it's funny that you mention revolvers. I actually have never used one before, but now I'm curious to use one at the range to see if it "fits" me better.

I've printed out the suggestions everyone has given me for my next time at the range, which at this point is probably sometime in February. I'll definitely come back and report results! :drinks :thumsup

 

[user7483]

I too have a Sigma SW 9ve and I love the gun. I bought mine in December and since then I have put roughly 1800 rounds through it with no FTE or FTF's. I can get pretty tight groupings at 25 - 30 yards. With most Sigma owners I was concerned about the trigger at first but believe it or not after you have fired the gun a lot the trigger gets lighter and you also start to get a better feel for it. If you still feel it is a bit heavy you can send it to the authorized repair shop listed on the back of your owners manual in Texas and they will lighten it up for you. Shipping is on them both ways and it usually takes less than a week to get it back. I am currently in the process of purchasing a M&P compact .40 and will use it as my carry weapon but I have no reservations at all carrying the Sigma as a defensive weapon. It has served me quite well.

 

[Timbal]

Yep, I agree that the trigger does get lighter with use. At first I had problems with field stripping the weapon, as the spring was really stiff. 200 rounds later, and it field strips just fine.

Personally, I like the fact that the trigger is that long, it seems like a "safety" feature to me.

 

[ZO6Vettever]

What helped me shoot my Sigma on target was forget the "sqeeezzze" and just "pull" the trigger. Try it, works for me. The more you shoot it the more you'll like.

 

[Timbal]

Z06, I think I understand what you mean. I was planning to go to the range today and work on the suggestions in this thread, but I got diverted. :thumbsdwn

Maybe next week sometime, but when I do, you folks will be the first to know! :thumsup

 

[groundfighter]

Sigma

Hey everyone. I'm new to the forum. I just bought a Sigma 9mm. I was reluctant at first because I bought the very 1st model when they first came out and I hated it! I bought this newest model last weekend and I'm glad I did. The trigger pull is a little heavy but with good control and a good grip it shot GREAT! I was really impressed. My brother and I kept very tight groups at about 7yds. After about 10 rounds I started to find that sweet spot in the trigger after each shot was fired. I really enjoyed shooting it. It's reliable and accurate. You cant beat the price! I picked mine up for $280 with 2-16rd magazines.
Groundfighter...

"those that live by the sword get shot by those that don't"
---NON VICTIM:ak

 

[Veper]

I had a Sigma as well for a few years, and I sold it when my collection started to grow! It was one of those things I will regret forever I suppose! I wish that I kept it, as it went bang every single time I pulled the trigger! The Sigma Series of pistols is based on a great design, and is very ergonomic. I found that once used to the trigger it was as accurate as anyone could expect a pistol to be. Mine was a .40 S&W, and apart from the price of ammo I miss everything about it! For those whom are looking for a great Weapon at a FAIR price I would highly recommend the Sigma!