[RadTek]

I recently posted in the "why I started carrying" thread my story where I'd like to think I did everything right OTHER than the fact that I wasn't carrying.

However, a good friend of mine just reminded me last night of another scenario where things didn't go quite as well.

Many, many years ago..around 20, that same buddy and I had just picked up his g/f from a major mall near downtown Orlando after she got off work. It was late. Mall was empty as were the parking lots. I was driving, and as I was waiting at the end of the driveway to turn left onto the highway, about 4 or 5 older teenagers approached my window. I smoked back then, and so I always kept my window cracked a few inches. As they approached, they asked a question. We don't remember what it was, but, before I could even respond, one of them lurched forward and pointed, what was probably a .38 snub nosed into that cracked window.

I immediately dropped the clutch and stood on the gas. Had another car been coming, we'd have all been killed I'm sure. But, it was a reflex reaction.

We stopped at a c-store, called the cops and made a report. Naturally, they found nothing and we were horrible witnesses. None of us could give a very good description.:smack

Here's the thing, even 20 years later, my buddy and I can't really decide if that was probably the dumbest thing I've ever done. Had that gun gone off poking through my window who knows who it would have hit. It was pointed at the dashboard due to the odd way he had to jack the gun through the window. I'll be honest, I'd love to say I was "clear" enough at that moment to realize that fact and made the tactical decision to retreat knowing the gun wasn't pointed at any of us.....but, I wasn't. It was a dumb panic move to "run" at best.

So, was that a dumb move to "bolt" or not? And, even in clearer minds, and I know there are always a lot of variables, but, what would have been the appropriate response, generally speaking?


I have always taken my responsibility for others lives seriously. Even as a youngster with buddies in my vehicle. This is a scenario that used to haunt me a lot. I'll have to whop my buddy good later for reminding me of this one.:smack:smack I had managed to put it behind me for a while. :thumbsdwn

 

[Al Lipscomb]

People can second guess this to no end, but they did not find your body in a burned up car in an Orange Grove and here you are today. What you had happen is an example of what a real world, life or death self defense situation looks like.

The bad guy used distraction to close distance.

You were at less than five feet.

You were in a bad time crunch.

Getting out of the kill zone was the highest percentage move you had. There is no reason to not think the guy was going to pull the trigger and you had an out. Don't second guess success. You would be amazed at how many factors the brain can include in such a decision in that split second.

 

[airhead]

Adrenaline dump causes "fight or flight" responses. You chose flight. Looking back it worked. Staying and fighting would probably not have worked as well. Even if you had a CC, you probably could not have got it out and done anything before he had a chance to shoot you.

I say you did good.

Too bad you didn't roll the window up and take his revolver away from him. That would have almost been funny.

Someone with Brownie's training would/could have directed the barrel/disarmed him and give him the butt whoppin he needs. Most of us mere mortals however are better off with the option you chose.

 

[Rvrctyrngr]

Have to agree with Al.

Your instinct took over and you reacted...you didn't freeze up when a weapon was stuck in your face. Think about THAT for a second.

Most folks will never know how they will react in a life/death situation.

Now you know, and the lesson didn't cost you a thing (and those lessons seldom come for free, believe me).

You can 'what if' and MMQB yourself to death, and not be any better for it. Accept that what you did worked, and you're here to tell us about it. :thumsup

 

[Uechi]

If you read numerous scenarios on car jackings alone you'll see that the best thing you can probably do is hit the gas and get out of there. Could the BG have shot at you, yup sure could have. What's better to be in this situation a moving target or one standing still. You did the right thing. If it happen again would you do the same thing? Who knows every time anybody gets in a bad situation we react with instinct first. You can make learned self defense reactions instinctual too it's called practice and more practice. I'm just glad you and your friend are around to tell the story.

 

[J T]

IMHO, a very good move.

 

[RadTek]

...Too bad you didn't roll the window up and take his revolver away from him. That would have almost been funny...

:rolf You're right. That would have been good!!

Thanks all. As I say, I had, up till now, almost forgotten about it. But, I guess I've just always wondered.

And you're right, I'm alive to talk about it. So, in the end, right or wrong. It worked at the time, and that's all that matters I guess.

Like I say, it's just something a buddy and I got to talking about over a game of darts the other night during the course of discussing some range time prior.

Speaking of range time...I tried out a Glock 30..I think..does that sound right? It was a .45.

VEERRY nice!! It's the first 45 I've ever shot, I've always been a 9mm guy. I decided to rent one at the range. The recoil really wasn't nearly as bad as I had expected. Accuracy wasn't my best, but, far from my worst. I'm confident that some practice could fix that.

I may just have to reconsider my everyday carry plans. :thumsup I'm still far more comfortable with 9mm, been shooting that for years. But, I may very well look into one some day.

 

[Steve48]

I'll just chime in and agree with everyone else. You did fine. :thumsup

 

[sgtlogan]

You did great. Stop and think.....if you had stopped and tried to disarm him...didn't you say there was 3-5 of them....very bad odds to start with unless you were a current UFC fighter. And if your friend keeps pestering you bout it, ask him what he did to help....besides crap his pants....you did the correct thing sir.

 

[RadTek]

... unless you were a current UFC fighter.....

Hardly...while I was in better shape then, I was no athlete by any stroke of the imagination. :rolf I've always been a rather large guy. Even when I played football in HS I was stocky. (sadly, as the years went by, stocky melted into soggy..) However,I learned, after many hard lessons in my careless youth, :doh that there will always be someone bigger.

Thanks again all. Not something that we're letting get under our skin after all these years. As I say, more to the point of a discussion in which we could never really resolve a good answer.

So, I thought I'd pop in here and ask you guys. Really just curious as to how those of you with far more training, experience, skill, etc.. would interprit the scenario.

Thanks again.

 

[Konrad]

I agree with everything that has been said here.

The only way to know if what you did was right was to look at the results.

Results = no loss of life, no physical injury and least importantly no damage to physical property.

As I read your story I started thinking of the possible options:

1. Drive like a bat out of hell and take the gamble that traffic was clear. Possible result:
A. If no traffic then no collision and perp can't shoot or doesn't shoot, or does shoot and MIGHT hit something. Result:
no harm and or possible harm.
B. If traffic then collision might ensue resulting in possible injury to occupants of both vehicles and possibly more. Safety of vehicle may mitigate injuries. Perps not likely to have any interest in disabled vehicle, though they may rob injured parties. Police likely to be called and pose further deterrent to perps.
Result, possible harm

2. Don't drive:
A. Cooperate with perps, hand over personal property including gun.This could arm the perps further. However you might be able to get a description of the criminals to report to police (If you get a good look). Perps may or may not shoot or harm you and your passenger(s).
Result, possible harm to you and your passenger.

B. Attempt to shoot it out despite perp having drop on you.
Result, probable harm to you and passenger and bystanders


There are hybrids of these two scenarios such as initially cooperating and then shooting or driving, but thats missing the point.

The point is: You and your passengers are alive and well and there was no physical harm done.

Your options were limited and none were devoid of possible danger.

As I see it, "Flight" had the lowest percentage of risk to you and your passenger and the facts bear out the point that you did the right thing. I would give yourself a mental pat on the back and thank your lucky stars that your instinct kicked in so effectively. Many people would have frozen in place.

While none of the options were perfect, in my eyes you were in a strategically inferior position and "Fighting" would probably have risked the most harm to yourself and your party.

I feel that in situations where "It could have gone horribly wrong" its best not to wonder what would have happened or why it didn't because that can cause all manner of mental anguish.

Know that the worst DIDN't happen and thats all there is to it. It just wasn't your time and sometimes there isn't any good reason its just life.

Further, I can only see the risk of harm increasing exponentially as the amount of contact with the perps increases.

Unless you separate yourself immediately, the perps could gain confidence in knowing that they have forced you to submit to their will. In my mind that is dangerous. After that initial moment any manner of thing could happen such as hostage taking, accidental firearm discharge, intentional discharge to dispose of witnesses or out of anger etc...


I am no expert but every piece of advice I've ever heard from professionals who teach self defense is that the victim needs to get away from the threat ASAP X 1million.

And really...once the gun is pointed at you've really got nothing much more to lose.

Good job I am convinced you handled the situation in the BEST way you could have!

FWIW
Konrad

 

[RadTek]

...And really...once the gun is pointed at you've really got nothing much more to lose....

As I said, I'd love to be able to sit here and say that my mind was clear enough at the time and I made a tactical decision based on that logic alone.

Unfortunately, it was more of a "Oh : censored!! " panic move!!

However, it's just been one of those life's experiences that's made me think, and been part of the seed that has forced me over the years to evaluate my thinking and force myself to develop a higher situational awareness.

For example, my story I posted up about the likely near miss my wife and I had in Denver a few years ago, if THIS scenario had never happened many years ago...flash forward to Denver... I wonder if I would have recognized the potential danger and moved appropriately to get my wife and I into a safer posture and position.....

Given those years of practicing higher awareness....If this mall parking lot situation were to happen today, same circumstances...I'd have more likely seen them coming, rolled up the window, and probably risked a move into traffic sooner, but, with more control. Or as it was late night, there was nothing behind me, a quick move backward and to another end of the parking lot would also be an option.

The situation basically woke me up and taught me that the only one I can count on to keep myself safe, is myself, causing me to begin to teach myself to watch my surroundings more, and, in the end, as a result, could have easliy saved our lives in Denver not long ago. Who knows...but, I'll take the credit for it anyway...:laughing

 

[Al Lipscomb]

You always have to balance things with "what did I know at that moment." The things you can recall today are the things you used to make a choice then. Your knowledge, the things visible to you, and your training (if any) were what you had to work with.

I was in the passenger side of a cruiser when we pulled over to check a vehicle stopped on the side of the road (just past a major bridge). We pulled up next to the driver and rolled down my window to ask if he was OK. He was acting a bit strange but said he was about to leave so we moved on and watched him pull out.

I commented that I had my left hand on my backup gun as the guy seemed very nervous. The trooper I was working with, a very experienced LEO, said that it would not have mattered: at the first sign of trouble he had his foot on the gas and we would have been out of there.