[capngeo]

I am a member of a few fraternal organizations. One recently had a doofus who had a CCL, and was sitting at the bar. His weapon was never exposed, but did "print" and was noticed. The Pres is a buddy of mine who knew I had a CCL and asked me about the legalities. I told him of the relevant statutes off the top of my head, but wasn't sure it applied to a private club as well....

So, I go look at the statutes this morning, and nada! A Private club's bar isn't mentioned. The private club does not fit the "business" mold. In fact, our club is not regulated by the "blue laws" of no alcohol sales on Sunday before noon, as well as has a different "license" to sell liquor than does a bar

 

[deadeyedick]

I'm not sure what your question is...are you trying to prevent anyone from carrying a concealed weapon in the bar?

If your organization is concerned about people carrying and drinking, I don't think it's necessary for the law to prohibit it...the fraternal organization you belong to can establish any rules it so desires that are legally binding on its members as a condition of membership. If a member (or non-member, for that matter) refused to obey such a policy and also refused to leave, you could have them arrested for criminal trespass.

If you're concerned about someone being harassed or arrested for illegally carrying a firearm in your 'bar', I believe you rightly pointed out that the law only appears to apply to establishments that are licensed to serve alcohol...again, your organization can establish any rules it likes either allowing or prohibiting concealed carry on its private property.

 

[SwampRat]

Couple of years ago I used to go into a private clubhouse (motorcycle club). They have a regular bar setup and sell liquor..so I asked a SWAT commander one time about carrying concealed in there...He told me if I was going in there, I had better be carrying if not I was a fool...He knows everyone in there did and most if not all were illegally doing so..but they weren't going to mess with 'em..unless of course trouble started. Which late at nite you would usually have some fool out back doing target practice on lord knows what...:drinks

I know that didnt answer your question but a private club is a "Private Club"

 

[Clamper]

printing????

there is no law in Florida in regard to printing.... what you think is a gun could be just about anything...

concealed from ordinary sight that's what the law says...

 

[T.S.]

I think there might be a problem with carrying in a bar of a private club that is licensed to sell or dispense alcohol ......

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec06.HTM

Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS

790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.--

(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

 

[SGB]

TampaSsgt hit it square on the head.

any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;

The way in which the law is written he can not be at the bar. Drinking or not.

 

[Rvrctyrngr]

Playing Devil's advocate....

The operative word from the statute is 'licensed'...i.e., a bidness selling/dispensing alcoholic beverages.

Not sure whether 'private clubs' fall into this category or not.

Do the Elks, Moose, Masons, VFW, American Legion, etc., have licenses to dispense alcoholic beverages? I know I've patronized several of the above both as a 'member' and a guest...

Interesting question I'd not thought about before.

Capnego, I'd venture to say that if your organization possesses a license to dispense alcohol, sitting at the bar would be a no no.

Back to lurk mode.

 

[SuperTrkrE2812]

Playing Devil's advocate....

The operative word from the statute is 'licensed'...i.e., a bidness selling/dispensing alcoholic beverages.

I've got another observation, or another angle.
Do they give the drinks away for free, or sell them at a profit?
If they sell them for a profit, I feel it would be considered as a business.
If alcohol is served, you are prevented from sitting at the bar, as per Gutmacher's book, or from what i got from reading his book.

Just my lowly opinion.

 

[Rvrctyrngr]

That was my initial thought, as well....BUT Capngeo they do have a license of some sort. Also, the statute says 'dispensing' not 'selling'.

 

[T.S.]

I believe these statutes show that even a private club must have a license to sell or dispense an alcoholic beverage.

IMHO, this then brings the law against carrying concealed in private clubs that sell or dispense alcohol into effect.

The 2008 Florida Statutes

Title XXXIV
ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES AND TOBACCO Chapter 562
BEVERAGE LAW: ENFORCEMENT

562.06 Sale only on licensed premises.--Each license application shall describe the location of the place of business where such beverage may be sold. It is unlawful to sell, or permit the sale of such beverage except on the premises covered by the license as described in the application therefor.
History.--s. 11, ch. 16774, 1935; CGL 1936 Supp. 4151(237); s. 1, ch. 20830, 1941; s. 1, ch. 57-327; s. 2, ch. 72-230.

562.12 Beverages sold with improper license, or without license or registration, or held with intent to sell prohibited.--

(1) It is unlawful for any person to sell alcoholic beverages without a license, and it is unlawful for any licensee to sell alcoholic beverages except as permitted by her or his license or, to sell such beverages in any manner except that permitted by her or his license; and any licensee or other person who keeps or possesses alcoholic beverages not permitted to be sold by her or his license, or not permitted to be sold without a license, with intent to sell or dispose of same unlawfully, or who keeps and maintains a place where alcoholic beverages are sold unlawfully, is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(2) It is unlawful for any person to operate as an exporter of alcoholic beverages within the state without registering as an exporter pursuant to s. 561.17. Any person who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(3) Upon the arrest of any licensee or other person charged with a violation of this section, the arresting officer shall take into her or his custody all alcoholic beverages found in the possession, custody, or control of the person arrested or, in the case of a licensee, all alcoholic beverages not within the purview of her or his license, and safely keep and preserve the same and have it forthcoming at any investigation, prosecution, or other proceeding for the violation of this section and for the destruction of the same as provided herein. Upon the conviction of the person arrested for a violation of this section, the judge of the court trying the case, after notice to the person convicted and any other person whom the judge may be of the opinion is entitled to notice, as the judge may deem reasonable, shall issue to the sheriff of the county, the division, or the authorized municipality a written order adjudging and declaring the alcoholic beverages forfeited and directing the sheriff, the division, or the authorized municipality to dispose of the alcoholic beverages as provided in s. 562.44 or s. 568.10.

History.--s. 11, ch. 16774, 1935; CGL 1936 Supp. 4151(237); s. 1, ch. 20830, 1941; s. 1, ch. 28069, 1953; s. 1, ch. 61-218; ss. 16, 35, ch. 69-106; s. 564, ch. 71-136; s. 2, ch. 72-230; s. 20, ch. 79-11; s. 23, ch. 91-60; s. 860, ch. 97-103.

 

[ElBoricua]

A private club that is only for members and their guests dosnt require a license I am the VP of an MC and in our private club we dont require a license to serve alcoholic beverages, also we dont sell them we get donations for them. In my Clubhouse the only two people allowe to carry is me becuase i open, close and run the place, and the Sgt @ arms. No one else is allowed to carry, exeptions are made for some members but no for outsiders unless they are LEO's.

 

[Baldy]

Having belonged to a private club I can tell you the laws apply the same there as they do everywhere else. TampaSsgt has it right. They might not be enforced as much, but if something happens they will be or could be.

 

[capngeo]

The club is NOT an establishment.... It is of course licensed to dispense beverages as a private club. Although alcohol is "sold", it is sold at cost + overhead, without profit.

As a private club the rules are different. For instance, sales hours are not set by law, nor is there a prohibition of sales on sunday before noon, smoking is permitted even though food is served etc. etc. etc.

The club can certainly make a rule, and may well do so. The Pres just asked me because he knows I have a CCL. He wanted to know where he stood before he approached the member in question. I told him to ask a lawyer!

 

[T.S.]

I could find no statute for private clubs, but 561.01 (9) states that "Sale" and "sell" mean any transfer of an alcoholic beverage for a consideration. Also 561.12 (1) says that it is unlawful for any person to sell alcoholic beverages without a license.

So if you have a private club that gives alcoholic drinks away, you may not have to have a license, thus the concelaed carry law against carrying in a bar might not apply.

I have been a member of American Legion clubs and I know they do not give alcoholic drinks away.

http://www.flsenate.gov/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0561/SEC01.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch0561->Section%2001#0561.01

The 2008 Florida Statutes

Title XXXIV
ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES AND TOBACCO Chapter 561
BEVERAGE LAW: ADMINISTRATION

561.01 Definitions.--As used in the Beverage Law:

(9)"Sale" and "sell" mean any transfer of an alcoholic beverage for a consideration, any gift of an alcoholic beverage in connection with, or as a part of, a transfer of property other than an alcoholic beverage for a consideration, or the serving of an alcoholic beverage by a club licensed under the Beverage Law.

(11) "Licensed premises" means not only rooms where alcoholic beverages are stored or sold by the licensee, but also all other rooms in the building which are so closely connected therewith as to admit of free passage from drink parlor to other rooms over which the licensee has some dominion or control and shall also include all of the area embraced within the sketch, appearing on or attached to the application for the license involved and designated as such on said sketch, in addition to that included or designated by general law. The area embraced within the sketch may include a sidewalk or other outside area which is contiguous to the licensed premises. When the sketch includes a sidewalk or other outside area, written approval from the county or municipality attesting to compliance with local ordinances must be submitted to the division to authorize inclusion of sidewalks and outside areas in licensed premises. The division may approve applications for temporary expansion of the licensed premises to include a sidewalk or other outside area for special events upon the payment of a $100 application fee, stipulation of the timeframe for the special event, and submission of a sketch outlining the expanded premises and accompanied by written approval from the county or municipality as required in this subsection. All moneys collected from the fees assessed under this subsection shall be deposited into the Alcoholic Beverage and Tobacco Trust Fund.

14) "Licensee" means a legal or business entity, person, or persons that hold a license issued by the division and meet the qualifications set forth in s. 561.15.

562.12 Beverages sold with improper license, or without license or registration, or held with intent to sell prohibited.--

(1) It is unlawful for any person to sell alcoholic beverages without a license, and it is unlawful for any licensee to sell alcoholic beverages except as permitted by her or his license, or to sell such beverages in any manner except that permitted by her or his license; and any licensee or other person who keeps or possesses alcoholic beverages not permitted to be sold by her or his license, or not permitted to be sold without a license, with intent to sell or dispose of same unlawfully, or who keeps and maintains a place where alcoholic beverages are sold unlawfully, is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

 

[capngeo]

The 2008 Florida Statutes

Title XXXIV
ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES AND TOBACCO Chapter 561
BEVERAGE LAW: ADMINISTRATION

561.01 Definitions.--As used in the Beverage Law:

(9)"Sale" and "sell" mean any transfer of an alcoholic beverage for a consideration, any gift of an alcoholic beverage in connection with, or as a part of, a transfer of property other than an alcoholic beverage for a consideration, or the serving of an alcoholic beverage by a club licensed under the Beverage Law.

I do believe you found what I was looking for! A club is specifically mentioned! THANKS!

 

[T.S.]

I do believe you found what I was looking for! A club is specifically mentioned! THANKS!

I completely missed that about the clubs

, good catch capngeo!

 

[mrengles]

Looks like a question for Jon H. Gutmacher. You can send an email from his website. He's answers past questions of mine with a quick response.

http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/