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Poll: Do you carry a knife
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I've carried a knife for years, but never really viewed it as a defensive tool until recently; the only training I've had so far is Brownie's Unarmed Defensive Skills class, but I'll be taking his Edged Weapons class in November as well. I'm currently toting a CRKT Crawford Kasper...it's the easiest one I own to do the Brownie Pop with. 
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By golly, that's exactly what I have. I wouldn't want to get stuck with one either.There are times when I carry my folding Buck knife.
The blade is several inches long and I have placed a good edge on it from my sharpening stone.
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I wouldn't want to get stuck with it ...
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I carry this knife with at least one gun every day. I also carry a folder occasionally but only for a few weeks before a class to get back into the swing of them for class and to brush up on the Brownie Pop for demonstrations.
Can't be teaching the small folder skills and look like a novice from not carrying one for a long time :rolf
what kind of edge weapon training they have.
James Keating of Combat Technologies from 93-2002, one of his Riddle of Steel camps for 6 days on the Snake River in Idaho, and a weekend with Mike Janich along 5 days at his annual skills camp in Denver.
Can't be teaching the small folder skills and look like a novice from not carrying one for a long time :rolf
what kind of edge weapon training they have.
James Keating of Combat Technologies from 93-2002, one of his Riddle of Steel camps for 6 days on the Snake River in Idaho, and a weekend with Mike Janich along 5 days at his annual skills camp in Denver.
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I'd answer that with "none of the above"..I've ALWAYS carried a knife since I was about 10 years old and learned how to play mumbletypeg..and for those dont know what that is..Mumblety-peg is generally played between two people with the aid of a pocket knife. In one version of the game, two opponents stand opposite one another with their feet shoulder-width apart. The first player then takes the knife and throws it to "stick" in the ground as near his own foot as possible. The second player then repeats the process. Whichever player "sticks" the knife closest to his own foot wins the game.
If a player "sticks" the knife in his own foot, he wins the game by default, although few players find this option appealing because of the possibility of bodily harm. The game combines not only precision in the knife-throwing, but also a good deal of bravado and proper assessment of one's own skills.
Another variant of the game called Split or Split the Kipper involves each player throwing the knife at the other player.
Mumbletypeg involves tossing a pocketknife into the ground in a progressively more difficult competition usually limited to two players. If the knife tossed by a player does not stick in the bare ground, the player loses his/her turn. Beyond these basics, the rules varied greatly according to location.
If a player "sticks" the knife in his own foot, he wins the game by default, although few players find this option appealing because of the possibility of bodily harm. The game combines not only precision in the knife-throwing, but also a good deal of bravado and proper assessment of one's own skills.
Another variant of the game called Split or Split the Kipper involves each player throwing the knife at the other player.
Mumbletypeg involves tossing a pocketknife into the ground in a progressively more difficult competition usually limited to two players. If the knife tossed by a player does not stick in the bare ground, the player loses his/her turn. Beyond these basics, the rules varied greatly according to location.
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Oooh Oooh, Mumblety-peg. I remember that game
Had a lot of sneakers with punctures in the tops of them when I was a kid. The variation we played was throwing it at the other guys foot, as far from him as possible and he had to stretch one foot to the blade if it stuck and throw from that position.
When you knew you were going to lose, you'd throw it at his foot and if he moved, he lost..How to hell we still had all our toes was simply amazing
We've got off topic already here a little, but that's not unusual for this place, carry on with the poll.
Had a lot of sneakers with punctures in the tops of them when I was a kid. The variation we played was throwing it at the other guys foot, as far from him as possible and he had to stretch one foot to the blade if it stuck and throw from that position.
When you knew you were going to lose, you'd throw it at his foot and if he moved, he lost..How to hell we still had all our toes was simply amazing
We've got off topic already here a little, but that's not unusual for this place, carry on with the poll.
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Anyone Know how to play ROOT THE PEG Start at the hanad flip the knife & make it stick in ground & then to elbow,shoulder,nose,top of head & back down other side, If you miss you get a chance if miss Start over if you want to game chance & miss YOU GOT TO ROOT THE PEG other player hits peg 3 times & you root So winner got to get 3 good hits on peg PS YES I CARRY A KNIFE
PS YES I CARRY A KNIFE
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We played all those games and many more. That is probably why I have an 4' X 8' knife and axe throwing target in the back yard. I got some strange looks from the neighbors when it first went up, but after they got to know me many of them wanted to learn how to throw. At least the kids stop cutting through my yard. Then I put up a 3D deer target. People would actually slow down thinking it was a real deer for a few weeks. The same people who wanted to learn to throw also wanted to learn archery. I got good neighbors. I always carry at least one knife, usually two, not including my two multi-tools that I EDC. I have had formal training from a friend who is a vingtsun (wing chun) Sifu. I made him a 5'X9' target and taught his students how to throw in exchange for vingtsun butterfly sword lessons. I really don't think of any of my knives as "tactical" even if they look like it. To me calling a knife tactical is like calling a gun an "assault rifle/pistol". All of my guns and knives are just tools.
. I always carry at least one knife, usually two, not including my two multi-tools that I EDC. I have had formal training from a friend who is a vingtsun (wing chun) Sifu. I made him a 5'X9' target and taught his students how to throw in exchange for vingtsun butterfly sword lessons. I really don't think of any of my knives as "tactical" even if they look like it. To me calling a knife tactical is like calling a gun an "assault rifle/pistol". All of my guns and knives are just tools.I carry a knife, not 'tactical' or 'tacticool', but a good, working man's lock blade knife that could be pressed into service as a weapon, if need be.
Why do you think it's not a good idea to have a knife without 'training'? If pressed, I'll use ANYTHING as weapon to save my skin!
Why do you think it's not a good idea to have a knife without 'training'? If pressed, I'll use ANYTHING as weapon to save my skin!
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Yup... still have a scar in my right foot from that:drinks
I've carried a knife since I was 9 years old. If I've got my pants on, I've got a knife. I use my knife as a tool. I've always used a folding knife, some with lock blades and some without locks.
If absolutely necessary, I would use it as a self defense weapon. I have been trained, but I must admit the training was not advanced.
If I were to carry a knife as a weapon, and wanted to depend upon it to save my life or take another, I would want to have a fixed blade designed for such activities.
If absolutely necessary, I would use it as a self defense weapon. I have been trained, but I must admit the training was not advanced.
If I were to carry a knife as a weapon, and wanted to depend upon it to save my life or take another, I would want to have a fixed blade designed for such activities.
I too am curious why it would be a bad idea to carry a knife with no training. Especially having just returned to Jax via air and having a decent walk through the airport economy parking lot obviously naked of any "weapon" but holding longest key on my keychain in case I was surpised by anyone. Nice thing about that is draw time, nobdy looks at you funny holding your keys. Although I have had some knife training there are many things I have not been "trained" to use, but have been taught and believe in constantly assesing what my options are at any given point. That said I do prefer my .40 to the key to my wifes car.
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Two things:
"Tactical" was used tongue-in-cheek. Everything is tactical nowdays; I'm waiting to see the "tactical" toilet seat :laughing:laughing:laughing.
Like a gun, a knife can be used as an SD tool. Would you carry a gun without any training ? It can be done, but you would take a chance that the BG could take it from you.
I have never studied the "art of the knife"; of course, if SHTF, in last resort, I'd rather have a knife than nothing, but I don't count on it, except maybe as a deterrent.
Actually, everyone should carry a knife. Knives are, probably, the most useful tool in the world. But, when you speak of tactical carry and employment of a knife as a SD weapon, the issue becomes more complicated. As Brownie points out, training begins with knowledge of a suitable SD knife [size, shape, material, mechanism, etc.]. It then proceeds into methods of deployment, grips, stances, defense, offense, and the legal aspects. This all takes time.
On the other hand, the knife is probably the easiest weapon to use, if not necessarily to use well. No, everyone should carry a knife. You just have be aware of your limitations in its use.
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Here's an article I wrote back in 2002 on the "Tactical/Fighting Folder Definition" for a web site I tested knives for over several years.
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I have been asked for a description of what a fighting or tactical folder is. Lets start with definitions given for these words found in the American Heritage Dictionary.
Fight: To participate in combat; To contend with physically or in battle; To make ones way by or as if by combat; To quarrel or conflict and, A physical conflict between two or more individuals.
Tactical: Of or pertaining to tactic
Tactic: An expedient for achieving a goal; maneuver
Folder: One that folds
We can determine that a Fighting/Tactical folder would be a knife that folds as opposed to a straight blade; a knife that one may use physically in combat or battle; a folding knife used to achieve a goal [in this case, self defense].
From the common jackknife your grandfather carried [which did not have a locking mechanism to lock the blade in the open position] to the current genre of folders being manufactured by various companies and individual custom knife makers could all be considered under the right conditions to be a "Fighting/Tactical Folder".
Your grandfather's pocketknife could be considered a fighting/tactical folder if he used it to defend himself against an attack on his person. Would that old Uncle Henry folder with the nail nick in the blade he carried be the best tool for the task in this scenario? I would not think so, as that knife was not designed with these tasks in mind. It could be used in defense of ones person thereby making it, in this scenario, a fighting/tactical folder.
Various manufacturers and knife makers are constantly designing and redesigning their knives to enhance the ability to defend oneself from an aggressor. They are tasked with creating a folding knife that lends itself, through design and execution, to more effective means of defending ones person. Some form of criteria must be established which acts as a guideline for their fighting/tactical folders.
The criteria could be the designer's idea of what this type of tool should look like and what materials should be used. It could also be input from martial artists who have some background in defensive knife techniques. Each maker uses a different set of criteria that he or she feels is more important to the task of defense.
My own criteria for a Tactical/Fighting folder will probably differ from yours. What I want in a folder for its intended purpose may not fit what you feel is critical for you. Hence, we have numerous models to choose from making the selection process more difficult.
The following is the order of importance [for myself] when it comes to selecting a folding knife that I may use to defend myself from an attack. These may not be in the order you would choose and that's why we have the array of products on the market today which we can choose from.
My criteria from most important to least important:
1. The locking mechanism and the materials it is made from
2. The steel used for the blade and the Rockwell hardness of that steel
3. The ability to access the knife with either hand in an emergency
4. Handle material and grip shape
5. Blade design
The reasons behind my choices of most important attributes in a fighting folder:
The locking mechanism on a folder has to be strong so that under extreme use the lock does not fail. If I am to carry the folder with personal defense in mind I want the blade locking mechanism to be the strongest I can find. All other concerns are useless unless the knife can be depended on to stay locked open and not collapse onto my tender fingers. [If they weren't tender at the start they sure would be once they were stumps from the blade collapsing under stress].
Once we are confident that the lock won't fail, we are set to the task of which steel to have the blade made from. I want steel that can be hand sharpened easily. A steel that won't be brittle but has been heat treated properly for that particular alloy. I am not concerned with whether the steel is stainless or not as this is a personal defense weapon and will be carried always and probably never used for it's intended purpose. I have the luxury of time to care properly for the steel and will have the necessary tools to keep it at razor blade sharp.
If the first two criteria are met we next want to be able to access the tool of choice with no delays. If the knife is there for possible defense and you can not access it immediately it is useless. I want my defensive folder to have a pocket clip so that I can attach it to my pocket or waistline for immediate access in an emergency.
Handle material is a matter of personal choice. I make decisions on handle material based on how slippery the handle becomes when my hands are wet. Handle shape? I prefer the grips to have a flat profile instead of rounded grip design. You will certainly have your own preference and I do not profess one over the other to anyone. Personal choice based on your own experiences will serve you well without my interjecting here. What works for me may not work as well for you.
Blade designs are too numerous to list here or explain the benefits or detractions of each. As I have stated earlier in this article knives and their design are a personal preference. What you like I may not consider and what I like you may not. I tend to stay with the clip point blades in non-serrated guise for my defensive needs.
The best defense knife I could own would be one that meets my defensive criteria above and that feels comfortable in my hand to start. Some have the best materials and locks yet do not "feel" right for some reason. Others may be minimally acceptable as to materials but just feel "right" for my hand.
Just carrying a folding knife for defense does not mean you will be able to access it in time to defend yourself or be able to escape injury. You will need to practice your defensive skills sets in "the draw drills" until you can access and open the knife one handed in less than 1 second from your preferred carry position. This is not as difficult as it seems. What most people find difficult is allocating the time necessary to become proficient with their chosen tool for self-defense.
You can have the most expensive fighting folder made on your person when troubles arise and without the knowledge base and skills sets from practicing and training for such possible encounters you may as well be carrying nothing.
If you are interested in obtaining defensive knife instruction or are in need of a fighting/tactical folder please feel free to contact me from the links on this site.
"Draw straight, keep your steel sharp and watch your back"
______________________________________________________________
A few of my opinions have changed since I wrote that piece, yet overall it still presents ideas for the members to consider in their personal choice of a folder carried with SD in mind. I'll see if I can't find some of the other articles I wrote and get them up for members as well here in the next few days.
______________________________________________________________
I have been asked for a description of what a fighting or tactical folder is. Lets start with definitions given for these words found in the American Heritage Dictionary.
Fight: To participate in combat; To contend with physically or in battle; To make ones way by or as if by combat; To quarrel or conflict and, A physical conflict between two or more individuals.
Tactical: Of or pertaining to tactic
Tactic: An expedient for achieving a goal; maneuver
Folder: One that folds
We can determine that a Fighting/Tactical folder would be a knife that folds as opposed to a straight blade; a knife that one may use physically in combat or battle; a folding knife used to achieve a goal [in this case, self defense].
From the common jackknife your grandfather carried [which did not have a locking mechanism to lock the blade in the open position] to the current genre of folders being manufactured by various companies and individual custom knife makers could all be considered under the right conditions to be a "Fighting/Tactical Folder".
Your grandfather's pocketknife could be considered a fighting/tactical folder if he used it to defend himself against an attack on his person. Would that old Uncle Henry folder with the nail nick in the blade he carried be the best tool for the task in this scenario? I would not think so, as that knife was not designed with these tasks in mind. It could be used in defense of ones person thereby making it, in this scenario, a fighting/tactical folder.
Various manufacturers and knife makers are constantly designing and redesigning their knives to enhance the ability to defend oneself from an aggressor. They are tasked with creating a folding knife that lends itself, through design and execution, to more effective means of defending ones person. Some form of criteria must be established which acts as a guideline for their fighting/tactical folders.
The criteria could be the designer's idea of what this type of tool should look like and what materials should be used. It could also be input from martial artists who have some background in defensive knife techniques. Each maker uses a different set of criteria that he or she feels is more important to the task of defense.
My own criteria for a Tactical/Fighting folder will probably differ from yours. What I want in a folder for its intended purpose may not fit what you feel is critical for you. Hence, we have numerous models to choose from making the selection process more difficult.
The following is the order of importance [for myself] when it comes to selecting a folding knife that I may use to defend myself from an attack. These may not be in the order you would choose and that's why we have the array of products on the market today which we can choose from.
My criteria from most important to least important:
1. The locking mechanism and the materials it is made from
2. The steel used for the blade and the Rockwell hardness of that steel
3. The ability to access the knife with either hand in an emergency
4. Handle material and grip shape
5. Blade design
The reasons behind my choices of most important attributes in a fighting folder:
The locking mechanism on a folder has to be strong so that under extreme use the lock does not fail. If I am to carry the folder with personal defense in mind I want the blade locking mechanism to be the strongest I can find. All other concerns are useless unless the knife can be depended on to stay locked open and not collapse onto my tender fingers. [If they weren't tender at the start they sure would be once they were stumps from the blade collapsing under stress].
Once we are confident that the lock won't fail, we are set to the task of which steel to have the blade made from. I want steel that can be hand sharpened easily. A steel that won't be brittle but has been heat treated properly for that particular alloy. I am not concerned with whether the steel is stainless or not as this is a personal defense weapon and will be carried always and probably never used for it's intended purpose. I have the luxury of time to care properly for the steel and will have the necessary tools to keep it at razor blade sharp.
If the first two criteria are met we next want to be able to access the tool of choice with no delays. If the knife is there for possible defense and you can not access it immediately it is useless. I want my defensive folder to have a pocket clip so that I can attach it to my pocket or waistline for immediate access in an emergency.
Handle material is a matter of personal choice. I make decisions on handle material based on how slippery the handle becomes when my hands are wet. Handle shape? I prefer the grips to have a flat profile instead of rounded grip design. You will certainly have your own preference and I do not profess one over the other to anyone. Personal choice based on your own experiences will serve you well without my interjecting here. What works for me may not work as well for you.
Blade designs are too numerous to list here or explain the benefits or detractions of each. As I have stated earlier in this article knives and their design are a personal preference. What you like I may not consider and what I like you may not. I tend to stay with the clip point blades in non-serrated guise for my defensive needs.
The best defense knife I could own would be one that meets my defensive criteria above and that feels comfortable in my hand to start. Some have the best materials and locks yet do not "feel" right for some reason. Others may be minimally acceptable as to materials but just feel "right" for my hand.
Just carrying a folding knife for defense does not mean you will be able to access it in time to defend yourself or be able to escape injury. You will need to practice your defensive skills sets in "the draw drills" until you can access and open the knife one handed in less than 1 second from your preferred carry position. This is not as difficult as it seems. What most people find difficult is allocating the time necessary to become proficient with their chosen tool for self-defense.
You can have the most expensive fighting folder made on your person when troubles arise and without the knowledge base and skills sets from practicing and training for such possible encounters you may as well be carrying nothing.
If you are interested in obtaining defensive knife instruction or are in need of a fighting/tactical folder please feel free to contact me from the links on this site.
"Draw straight, keep your steel sharp and watch your back"
______________________________________________________________
A few of my opinions have changed since I wrote that piece, yet overall it still presents ideas for the members to consider in their personal choice of a folder carried with SD in mind. I'll see if I can't find some of the other articles I wrote and get them up for members as well here in the next few days.
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Ditto.
But without the fixed blade option, I carry my Kershaw blackout.
Depends a lot on the definition of "training" then, I guess... I carried a rifle when hunting when I was a boy, no 'tactical' training, but I sure would have used it to defend my life! When I first got my CCW license, the only training I had was from the Army, nothing at all on 'tactical' or fighting for retention, just taught how to hit what I aim at at up to 50m. Yep, I carried. I did get some training on tactical pistol shooting later, & feel more confident for having done so though.
However, my knife, keys & every OTHER tool & item I might be forced to use to fight for my life are primarily not for that. I don't feel I need to 'tactically' train to be Jackie Chan. If I ever am put in that situation, I may wish I had, but that's why I carry a gun & train with it, so I don't have to use lesser means. I put more effort in aviodance, myself.
Since you quoted and asked: Personally no I wouldn't carry a gun with out training, but back to my theory on using what is available. I haven't trained with a torque wrench but I'll take it over nothing. As for "deterrents" I guess I don't understand. If I feel the need to pull gun/knife I have already crossed the line in my head to using it. (I guess the exception is as I mentioned the keys in hand at the airport.) I may open distance or do any number of things to dissuade a wanna be BG or prepare for the potential use of a weapon, but don't know where you are going with deterrent. My opinion best deterrants are awareness and vigilance. I would prefer not to allow the BG to know what cards I am holding until I get a chance to play them.
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Learning the ways of the blade has made me eminently more proficient at my H2H/unarmed skills.
As Mac mentioned, you need to be aware of your limitations with that tool. Come up against an ex-con or some of the criminal element who come from blade cultures and train the blades from the time they are small and you better have more than just that folder in your pocket with little or no training. Otherwise you are going to get eaten alive and not know it till you've been put through a meat grinder in less than 3 seconds taking multiple stabs and slashes which will end your day at the very least and likely end with your demise before you could react to the attack.
You don't know who you're facing with a knife, and if you underestimate your opponent, you could be in deep doo doo RFN and never know how it happened, it will be that fast.
You train with the tools you carry so you KNOW how to use them effectively or you don't. The blade is a high art, and there just isn't time to think when it's "game on" and you are the prey up against a real predator.
Your blade work better be instinctive from training or have the best luck in the world at that moment in time. You can be gutted, shived, and slashed 4-5 times a second from every conceivable angle and in that one second be walking dead, no matter what happens after with your own response.
You have to survive the first second of the attack with a blade or it's not going to matter, lethal damage can be inflicted in that time. Something to think about, it's called forethought, and it goes a long way.
As Mac mentioned, you need to be aware of your limitations with that tool. Come up against an ex-con or some of the criminal element who come from blade cultures and train the blades from the time they are small and you better have more than just that folder in your pocket with little or no training. Otherwise you are going to get eaten alive and not know it till you've been put through a meat grinder in less than 3 seconds taking multiple stabs and slashes which will end your day at the very least and likely end with your demise before you could react to the attack.
You don't know who you're facing with a knife, and if you underestimate your opponent, you could be in deep doo doo RFN and never know how it happened, it will be that fast.
You train with the tools you carry so you KNOW how to use them effectively or you don't. The blade is a high art, and there just isn't time to think when it's "game on" and you are the prey up against a real predator.
Your blade work better be instinctive from training or have the best luck in the world at that moment in time. You can be gutted, shived, and slashed 4-5 times a second from every conceivable angle and in that one second be walking dead, no matter what happens after with your own response.
You have to survive the first second of the attack with a blade or it's not going to matter, lethal damage can be inflicted in that time. Something to think about, it's called forethought, and it goes a long way.
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