Thanks for posting this question, Franklin! I carry 185 grain +P Federal Hydra-Shok in both of my .45s and wonder (worry about) the same. It would be great if someone could point us to real-world data.
+p 45 Jhp
Should we be concerned with over penetration in a 45 caliber +P JHP, 185-230 grain bullet, shot from 3-20 ft., if we shoot center mass? Is it highly probable that the bullet will exit the attacker with enough energy to kill or injure an innocent person behind them?
Thank you
Franklin
Thank you
Franklin
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Good info hereThanks for posting this question, Franklin! I carry 185 grain +P Federal Hydra-Shok in both of my .45s and wonder (worry about) the same. It would be great if someone could point us to real-world data.
http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2213
These results were from a 5" and then 4" barrel. I only listed the 185 or lighter loadings tested, there is a lot of data in the link for your review.
Rem.Golden Sabre 185gr.+P
Veloc: High 1299 /Avg:1265 High: 1045 /Avg: 1007
Pene: 15 inches 16 1/2 inches
Expan: Max:0.729 /Avg:0.7045 Max:0.707/Avg:0.696
Rec.Wt: 184grs. 184.3grs.
Hornady XTP 185gr
Veloc: High 999/Avg:949 High:930/Avg:904
Pene:16+inches 16+ inches
Expan:Max:0.579/Avg:0.549 Max:0.510/Avg:0.506
Rec.Wt:178.1grs. 180.3grs.
Federal Hydra Shok 165gr.
Veloc:High:1099/Avg:1078 High:944/Avg:944
Pene:12 inches 12 1/4 inches
Expan:Max:0.744/Avg:0.733 Max:0.744/Avg:0.7225
Rec.Wt: 163.1grs. 155.9grs.
Double Tap 165gr.HP
Veloc: High:1261/Avg:1125/ High:1084/Avg:1067
Pene:9 3/4 inches/ 10 inches
Expan: Max:0.897/Avg:0.881/ Max:0.7025/Avg:0.694
Rec.Wt:165.4grs./ 164.6grs.
Taurus Hex 185gr. Barnes X
Veloc:High:941/Avg:931/ High:856/Avg.831
Pene: 9 3/4 inches/ 10 1/2 inches
Expan:Max: 0.861/Avg:0.857/ Max:0.851/Avg:0.799
Rec.Wt:184.6grs./ 184.1grs.
Brownie
These results were from a 5" and then 4" barrel. I only listed the 185 or lighter loadings tested, there is a lot of data in the link for your review.
Rem.Golden Sabre 185gr.+P
Veloc: High 1299 /Avg:1265 High: 1045 /Avg: 1007
Pene: 15 inches 16 1/2 inches
Expan: Max:0.729 /Avg:0.7045 Max:0.707/Avg:0.696
Rec.Wt: 184grs. 184.3grs.
Hornady XTP 185gr
Veloc: High 999/Avg:949 High:930/Avg:904
Pene:16+inches 16+ inches
Expan:Max:0.579/Avg:0.549 Max:0.510/Avg:0.506
Rec.Wt:178.1grs. 180.3grs.
Federal Hydra Shok 165gr.
Veloc:High:1099/Avg:1078 High:944/Avg:944
Pene:12 inches 12 1/4 inches
Expan:Max:0.744/Avg:0.733 Max:0.744/Avg:0.7225
Rec.Wt: 163.1grs. 155.9grs.
Double Tap 165gr.HP
Veloc: High:1261/Avg:1125/ High:1084/Avg:1067
Pene:9 3/4 inches/ 10 inches
Expan: Max:0.897/Avg:0.881/ Max:0.7025/Avg:0.694
Rec.Wt:165.4grs./ 164.6grs.
Taurus Hex 185gr. Barnes X
Veloc:High:941/Avg:931/ High:856/Avg.831
Pene: 9 3/4 inches/ 10 1/2 inches
Expan:Max: 0.861/Avg:0.857/ Max:0.851/Avg:0.799
Rec.Wt:184.6grs./ 184.1grs.
Brownie
Thank you SGB and Brownie
That was great stuff! I guess +P's may be over kill. If we are forced to fire and hit only soft tissue, we may get over penetration. Though, if we hit bone, cartilage and tendons, we probably won't.
Thank you
Franklin
That was great stuff! I guess +P's may be over kill. If we are forced to fire and hit only soft tissue, we may get over penetration. Though, if we hit bone, cartilage and tendons, we probably won't.
Thank you
Franklin
More than welcome Franklin,
I use standard velocity loads in every caliber I carry myself. That would be the 9mm, 45acp, 38spl and 357Sig.
Brownie
I use standard velocity loads in every caliber I carry myself. That would be the 9mm, 45acp, 38spl and 357Sig.
Brownie
Some interesting results have come out of a couple of recent cadaver tests, one in 1996, and several forensic reports on gunshot victims. They suggest that higher velocity rounds, expanded hollow and soft point included, show a greater tendency to exit a human body after impact. In addition, wounding, which is the purpose of a defensive handgun round, seems to be more dependent upon the frontal cross-section of the bullet rather than velocity. Bigger being better. What I found a little surprising was the reported tendency for the 230 gr FMJ .45acp round to remain in the torso almost all of the time.
Gelatin testing is a good basis for comparison, though it does not offer a one-to-one comparison with living tissue. The FBI requires gelatin penetration of at least 12" to certify a cartridge as an effective fight stopper, with 18" being deemed even better. Yet, the depth of the average adult male torso is 10". If the gelatin tests exactly corresponded to real world data, virtually every handgun round would have penetrated both sides of a human torso, if it didn't strike large bones, such as the spine or the scapula. Terminal ballistics is a fascinating field of study. There is quite wealth of information on this field on the internet, if you choose to look into it more deeply.
One little reminder. Statistically, almost 80% of rounds fired, in a firefight, miss the intended target.
Here's an assessment of the cadaver/live pig tests run in 1996:
http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/pigboard.html
Enjoy.
Gelatin testing is a good basis for comparison, though it does not offer a one-to-one comparison with living tissue. The FBI requires gelatin penetration of at least 12" to certify a cartridge as an effective fight stopper, with 18" being deemed even better. Yet, the depth of the average adult male torso is 10". If the gelatin tests exactly corresponded to real world data, virtually every handgun round would have penetrated both sides of a human torso, if it didn't strike large bones, such as the spine or the scapula. Terminal ballistics is a fascinating field of study. There is quite wealth of information on this field on the internet, if you choose to look into it more deeply.
One little reminder. Statistically, almost 80% of rounds fired, in a firefight, miss the intended target.
Here's an assessment of the cadaver/live pig tests run in 1996:
http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/pigboard.html
Enjoy.
Great stuff Mac45
I guess with this info thrown into the mix, I have an even greater desire not to use my weapon. It was good to hear that based on the gelatin goals by the FBI, they must know there is not a 1 to 1 correspondence between flesh and gelatin. Glad I am going to carry a 45 and will be even more happy if I die (of old age) and am never able to give you a report based on my personal statistical findings!
Gratefully
Franklin
I guess with this info thrown into the mix, I have an even greater desire not to use my weapon. It was good to hear that based on the gelatin goals by the FBI, they must know there is not a 1 to 1 correspondence between flesh and gelatin. Glad I am going to carry a 45 and will be even more happy if I die (of old age) and am never able to give you a report based on my personal statistical findings!
Gratefully
Franklin
Brownie,http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2213
These results were from a 5" and then 4" barrel. I only listed the 185 or lighter loadings tested, there is a lot of data in the link for your review.
Brownie
Since you did not list 230 grain, is that an indication that you would not recommend carrying a 230 grain round for self-defense?
TSsgt
No sir, in fact I prefer the heavier bullets in most calibers with the right loads.
230 Ranger T 45's; 147 Ranger T 9mm's are my preference [ standard velocity in both ].
There are plenty of loads in 230grain at were tested on that link: http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2213
The OP asked for the lighter load data, that's all I provided initially.
Brownie
230 Ranger T 45's; 147 Ranger T 9mm's are my preference [ standard velocity in both ].
There are plenty of loads in 230grain at were tested on that link: http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2213
The OP asked for the lighter load data, that's all I provided initially.
Brownie
Sorry about that, I did not see his request for lighter loads.No sir, in fact I prefer the heavier bullets in most calibers with the right loads.
230 Ranger T 45's; 147 Ranger T 9mm's are my preference [ standard velocity in both ].
There are plenty of loads in 230grain at were tested on that link: http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2213
The OP asked for the lighter load data, that's all I provided initially.
Brownie
Here I thought I was going to have to throw out all of my Federal 230 grain Hydra-Shok Jacketed Hollow Point Ammo .... not!!
If you decide to throw it out, let me know :drinksSorry about that, I did not see his request for lighter loads.
Here I thought I was going to have to throw out all of my Federal 230 grain Hydra-Shok Jacketed Hollow Point Ammo .... not!!
Brownie
I saw a post on another forum on how a particular guy loaded his mags with specific rounds. He said he loaded it where the first few rounds fired were JHP's and then the remaining were FMJ's. His opinion on it was that "most" people being shot at normally try to duck behind something for cover after the shooting starts. Obviously a JHP will do more damage to a person's insides then a FMJ but the FMJ will penetrate further as it may have to go through a car door or whatever the person is taking cover behind. Makes sense in his reasoning.
Sir, I have heard about the size of your ammo stash ... mine would only be a drop in the bucket compared to it!If you decide to throw it out, let me know :drinks
Brownie
230gr HP for daily.
230gr round nose for when life sucks and the environment is target rich.
:dancingbanana
230gr round nose for when life sucks and the environment is target rich.
:dancingbanana
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Florida Concealed Carry
A forum community dedicated to Florida’s concealed firearm owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about every day carry, optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Top Contributors this Month
View All
brownie
271 Replies
7.62Kolectr
127 Replies
Lautermilch
123 Replies
Recommended Communities
