Older vs new Win. Silvertip 115 grain loads

279 Views 12 Replies 7 Participants Last post by brownie, 20 d ago

brownie

Discussion Starter · 27 d ago

15:58 minutes long, I don't see many here watching it to the end.

I only watched it as I had a bad experience with the older Win ST 115 grain loads back in the day. I fired a 115 grain ST into a 2x4 stood upright from about 12 feet. I expected the wood would be torn up on the back side as it exited.

2x4 didn't move one iota. Checking the back of the 2x4, neat little hole was all that was there. Guy I was with said here, look at this as he picked up the projectile I'd just fired off the ground, a mere 3-4 feet past the 2x4. NO expansion, clogged with pine board material.

I never carried them, preferring the 124's and later on the 147 grainers in 9mm from Winchester and Federal along with Speers offerings in 124 and 147's. Still carry the 124+p Speer loadings in the shorter barrels [ like my G26 which hasn't been carried or shot in near a decade now ] and stay with the 147's from the 3 manu's listed for most all other 9mm pistols.

Pauls testing revealed the newer Win ST 115 grainers performed somewhat better, but still not up to my expectations of a SD load when other offerings from other manu's have superior expansion and penetration. Never been a proponent of high speed light weight bullets to begin with, that may be a prejudice on my end however.

Corbon's high velocity lightweight 115's in 9mm are another load I've never been enamored with. Corbon at one time was touted as THE load to use, nah, I shied away from those high speed lightweights as well.

So in 9mm, my preference is 124's in the +P offering from Speer, and 147's from Speer, Federal and Winchester. Most everyone understands the track record of the military 230 ball where putting enemies down is the subject. That load only moves at a nominal 850 fps, with an energy level at the muzzle of around 371 fpe.

The Federal 124+P 9mm offers up 378 fpe. The federal HST 147 grain 9mm offers up 326fpe. The Winchester 147 ranger T offers up 320fpe.

At one level of fpe does one need to put people down? The US Armed Forces said in WW2 that 36 FT. Lbs of energy in a round was lethal. As of today that number has moved to 59 Ft. Lbs. Many recognize and have reported a minimum of 200 fpe is necessary for stopping errant bipedals.

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OHEng

· #2 · 27 d ago

I watched it all the way through because that's the SD load I use. I've been aware for some time that there are other SD ammo choices that don't have the rep that Silvertips earned in the famous FBI Miami gunfight, and I have at times considered switching - and I still might. I have about 300 rounds of the stuff, and I guess that would make a helluva day at the range shooting it all up. I don't think I own any ammo older than 4 years outside of some .22LR and maybe some .22Mag. I usually shoot what I have left every few years and just buy more. It's not that I think it will go bad or has some invisible expiration date, it's just that every now and then I want to put the guns (and me) through the paces with the actual rounds I'm depending on for protection. Silly habit, perhaps, but one I've always done. Some think that's a waste of cash, and maybe it is, but it works out to maybe $25-30 a year extra, and I figure my life is worth at least that.

Maybe this time out I'll invest in a few boxes of something else and give it a go. The people I shoot with are all +P advocates and have been trying to persuade me for years to join them. Who knows, maybe I will.

Good job on the comparisons in the video. Thanks for posting it.

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BeerHunter

· #3 · 27 d ago

Watched till the end, as well! Good video and thanks for sharing! "Duran Duran generation" or "Reaganomics SilverTips" against his standard meat target covered by a George Orwell 1984 T-shirt. . . Love his very dry sense of humor! 🤣🤣🤣

I had some of those for years that I'd never carried because of the bad rep. I think I shot all of them through one of my P229s during a range trip here just a few years ago with no issues against paper targets! 🤠

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joecarry

· #4 · 27 d ago

I’ve never used the Winchester Silver Tips, I’ve always carried Winchester Ranger T 147 grain.
That said I built a simple back stop at Artemis place in the woods. 4x8 pt pine from Lowes is what they had. 12 of the 4x4x8’ in the center with 4x4x10’ on the outsides and two kickers going backwards.

I was surprised how the 9mm and .45 ball went threw like Swiss cheese stopping in the big oak tree I lined it up with as a precaution. Lots of woods with big trees all behind it.

The Ranger Ts went through mostly but found some on the ground near the backstop. Good expansion on all the ones I found. Also found some of the ball ammo on the ground too and in the oak tree. Barely a mark on them.

I also bought 4 more pt pine 2x4x8’ and screwed them into each other to build them up. The ball ammo was stopping at the 4 th 2x4. Went through the first three and stopped at the fourth. I wanted to see how many layers of 4x4s I would need to build the back stop up.

None of this is scientific testing or proof of anything except what I observed.

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brownie

Discussion Starter · #5 · 27 d ago

OHEng said:
I watched it all the way through because that's the SD load I use. I've been aware for some time that there are other SD ammo choices that don't have the rep that Silvertips earned in the famous FBI Miami gunfight, and I have at times considered switching - and I still might. I have about 300 rounds of the stuff, and I guess that would make a helluva day at the range shooting it all up. I don't think I own any ammo older than 4 years outside of some .22LR and maybe some .22Mag. I usually shoot what I have left every few years and just buy more. It's not that I think it will go bad or has some invisible expiration date, it's just that every now and then I want to put the guns (and me) through the paces with the actual rounds I'm depending on for protection. Silly habit, perhaps, but one I've always done. Some think that's a waste of cash, and maybe it is, but it works out to maybe $25-30 a year extra, and I figure my life is worth at least that.

Maybe this time out I'll invest in a few boxes of something else and give it a go. The people I shoot with are all +P advocates and have been trying to persuade me for years to join them. Who knows, maybe I will.

Good job on the comparisons in the video. Thanks for posting it.

Relative ammo going bad due to age, it's all dependent on how it's stored. I've got ww2 ball ammo I've fired from time to time [ last time maybe 3-4 years ago ] that still goes bang when it's fired. Some Winchester flying ashtray from the 80's, it went bang as well last time I checked an open box of it [ still have several boxes left ].

That ww2 stuff was stored in warehouses in places like Ca. bases for decades with no a/c or heat in metal buildings, but certainly kept dry.

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OHEng

· #6 · 26 d ago (Edited)

I keep all my shotgun ammo, loaded mags, and an extra box of SD ammo for the pistols in my safe inside the house. All my other ammo is in original boxes inside ammo cans (metal and plastic) outside in one of my sheds. Inside the shed I have an old metal truck box I got for a song, the kind that sits behind the cab of a pickup and straddles the bed. I set it up on a 2x4 stand I made. It's convenient and offers another layer of protection, and it locks. Seems to work pretty good, never had a drop of moisture inside there.
Any time I make a mod to a gun (trigger, mag release, etc.) I stick all the original parts in a ziplock, label it, and toss them into a plastic tub I keep in that same truck box in case I ever need them. So far, I haven't, it's just been a dust collector, but it's a convenient place to keep them all so if I have to go find one, I only have to look in one place.

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LabGuy

· #7 · 26 d ago

Well, the official NRA answer is to store your guns and ammunition separately in a manor that unauthorized persons can not access. This can be accomplished in the most secure cases with 2 gun safes one for ammo, one for guns. I personally keep guns in a safe, ammo in a locked cabinet.

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brownie

Discussion Starter · #8 · 26 d ago

LabGuy said:
Well, the official NRA answer is to store your guns and ammunition separately in a manor that unauthorized persons can not access. This can be accomplished in the most secure cases with 2 gun safes one for ammo, one for guns. I personally keep guns in a safe, ammo in a locked cabinet.

Following their advice, I'd need 50 big safes to store the ammo. That's not very realistic. Sounds like it came more from their legal dept than anywhere else.

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OHEng

· #9 · 26 d ago

The NRA should be more worried about keeping LaPierre and his wardrobe expenses in separate safes.

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Calimwulf

· #10 · 25 d ago

brownie said:
15:58 minutes long, I don't see many here watching it to the end.

I only watched it as I had a bad experience with the older Win ST 115 grain loads back in the day. I fired a 115 grain ST into a 2x4 stood upright from about 12 feet. I expected the wood would be torn up on the back side as it exited.

2x4 didn't move one iota. Checking the back of the 2x4, neat little hole was all that was there. Guy I was with said here, look at this as he picked up the projectile I'd just fired off the ground, a mere 3-4 feet past the 2x4. NO expansion, clogged with pine board material.

I never carried them, preferring the 124's and later on the 147 grainers in 9mm from Winchester and Federal along with Speers offerings in 124 and 147's. Still carry the 124+p Speer loadings in the shorter barrels [ like my G26 which hasn't been carried or shot in near a decade now ] and stay with the 147's from the 3 manu's listed for most all other 9mm pistols.

Pauls testing revealed the newer Win ST 115 grainers performed somewhat better, but still not up to my expectations of a SD load when other offerings from other manu's have superior expansion and penetration. Never been a proponent of high speed light weight bullets to begin with, that may be a prejudice on my end however.

Corbon's high velocity lightweight 115's in 9mm are another load I've never been enamored with. Corbon at one time was touted as THE load to use, nah, I shied away from those high speed lightweights as well.

So in 9mm, my preference is 124's in the +P offering from Speer, and 147's from Speer, Federal and Winchester. Most everyone understands the track record of the military 230 ball where putting enemies down is the subject. That load only moves at a nominal 850 fps, with an energy level at the muzzle of around 371 fpe.

The Federal 124+P 9mm offers up 378 fpe. The federal HST 147 grain 9mm offers up 326fpe. The Winchester 147 ranger T offers up 320fpe.

At one level of fpe does one need to put people down? The US Armed Forces said in WW2 that 36 FT. Lbs of energy in a round was lethal. As of today that number has moved to 59 Ft. Lbs. Many recognize and have reported a minimum of 200 fpe is necessary for stopping errant bipedals.

So where does a .22 to the back of the head fall into the equation?

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brownie

Discussion Starter · #11 · 25 d ago

Calimwulf said:
So where does a .22 to the back of the head fall into the equation?

Bottom of the pile IMO

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Skeptic 9094

· #12 · 20 d ago

Back in the 1980s the .357 145 gr silver tip was good for pin shooting. I preferred the lighter bullet for home defense. No CCW in Ohio back then.
Geoff
Who has been around awhile.

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brownie

Discussion Starter · #13 · 20 d ago

Skeptic 9094 said:
Back in the 1980s the .357 145 gr silver tip was good for pin shooting. I preferred the lighter bullet for home defense. No CCW in Ohio back then.
Geoff
Who has been around awhile.

That's when I started shooting pin and plate matches myself in 3 states in New England for a decade. Rare to see a revolver shooting them unless it was an previously announced revolver shoot only.

About as rare as a double stack 9mm shoot only match [ which they held maybe once a year at each venue ]. Then they'd add 3 plates or pins on the table so 9 to shoot out of a 13-17 round mag to start. Pins were mostly duck pin shoots, but on the 9mm shoots they would swap them out to candlepin.

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