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I love the look of stainless and its ease of maintenance, but I also like the traditional look of brass combined with case hardened steel. I will carry my 1851 Confederate

Navy Sheriff when the time comes.

I Iike the look of the brass, too, but I'd heard from numerous sources that it isn't as durable as stainless. Similarly, I'd also been informed that the frames that do not have the top strap over the cylinder are not as strong. It is for those reasons that I chose the 1858 stainless models for my entry into this realm.

I do plain growing my collection, however, and a Navy is on the list. They're so inexpensive, comparatively speaking, and with being able to have them shipped right to my door, why not?! :grin

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That looks nice! Which one is it?
I Iike the look of the brass, too, but I'd heard from numerous sources that it isn't as durable as stainless. Similarly, I'd also been informed that the frames that do not have the top strap over the cylinder are not as strong. It is for those reasons that I chose the 1858 stainless models for my entry into this realm.
Mine is a Pietta replica of the Remington 1858. I prefer the stainless or carbon steel over the brass for strength. I might want to put a conversion cylinder in it some day and shoot 45 LC - and from what I've read the brass framed guns aren't strong enough for that.

Regarding the 1858 versus any other replica BP pistol - before getting into BP pistols I did a bit of research and found that the 1858 is far and away superior to any other black powder revolver ever produced. As with any such sweeping generalization there are certainly those that disagree. :)

  • The top strap of the 1858 makes for a much stronger frame. I've read tales of guns with no top strap actually breaking in half if dropped - not that I plan to drop mine, but still.
  • Quick change cylinder - though carrying around a loaded spare cylinder on your belt isn't a great plan, I bet some folks did it. Also handy for easily swapping in that "research cylinder" to shoot some .45 LCs.
  • No loose parts to lose (drop your Colt wedge into the grass and you're toast).
  • Superior sights
  • Some say better trigger
  • The nipples on the 1858 cylinder are better recessed/shielded which is an extra safeguard if the gun (or a loaded cylinder) were dropped - though it does make capping the nipples a tad more tedious.
  • The hammer on the 1858 is not full width all the way to the face - it has a reduced-width face that passes through a slot in the frame. With the full-width-hammer-faced guns it is possible, and not uncommon, for the spent caps to come off and pass back into areas where you don't want them and potentially bind the gun up. Since the slot in the 1858 is narrower than the cap this is unlikely on an 1858.
  • The 1858 has intermediate hammer-notches between each chamber of the cylinder so you can rest the hammer in an intermediate notch instead of it sitting on top of a chamber. This means that (as long as you put the hammer into one of the intermediate notches) you can load all 6 chambers on the 1858 and carry it that way without having to worry about an unintentional discharge if bumped, etc.
I'm not saying I'll never get one of the Colt replicas, but my next BP pistol will be a Pietta 5.5" stainless "Sheriff" model. I have a blued 5.5" and greatly prefer the balance of the 5.5" gun over the 8".
 

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In addition to the 1851 Navy Sheriff, I have the full size 1851 Navy, as well as the 1858 Army which is my shooter.

As a former sailor I had to have the 1851 Navy and the Sheriff was just to cute to pass up.

Anyone who puts enough rounds through their BP revolver, to worry about the strength of the frame, has more patience than me. For me, an afternoon of BP is about 24 rounds.

I will admit that when cleaning time comes, SS would be nice.
 

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Anyone who puts enough rounds through their BP revolver, to worry about the strength of the frame, has more patience than me. For me, an afternoon of BP is about 24 rounds.
I don't think the strength is a big deal for "normal" shooting. But if you're going to run a conversion cylinder in your gun then you need a steel framed gun.
 

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I don't think the strength is a big deal for "normal" shooting. But if you're going to run a conversion cylinder in your gun then you need a steel framed gun.
This! I'm looking for the link where I read that from a respected authority on these BP pistols.
 

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I don't think the strength is a big deal for "normal" shooting. But if you're going to run a conversion cylinder in your gun then you need a steel framed gun.
Agreed!

I have a Ruger Single Six Blackhawk in 45Colt but it has adjustable sights and that strange Ruger profile and does not look like a cowboy gun. I really want a 45Colt in the "cowboy gun" style.

You are to young to remember Saturday morning westerns.

Since the popularity of cowboy action shooting, the price of even a reproduction gun is more than I want to pay. I had a Ruger Vaquero that I got for a steal but it was chambered in 44 mag and I wanted a 45Colt. I sold the 44 mag before I priced the 45Colt and ran into sticker shock. In 6 years that I had the gun, the price had more than doubled. It was just when everyone wanted to be a cowboy.
 

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You are to young to remember Saturday morning westerns.
Whilst before my time, I am currently watching the old Kung Fu series with Kwai Chang Caine. On season two, episode 10. Gives me my kung fu movies and westerns all wrapped up in a nice li'l package! :grin

@Brian--Thanks for all that BP info. Appreciate it!! :thumsup


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This! I'm looking for the link where I read that from a respected authority on these BP pistols.
Some of the sites that sell the conversion cylinders will mention that they are only to be used on steel framed guns. The one at the link I provided does:

These conversion cylinders convert various Uberti & Pietta steel frame Remington revolvers from black powder to smokeless ammunition.
 

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I would modify the above to say "if discovered and asked to leave". Mere discovery does not prompt the requirement to leave.
Brian, just wondering? How do we know Gun Buster signs have no force of law in Florida? Is there something in a statute stating that.
 

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Brian, just wondering? How do we know Gun Buster signs have no force of law in Florida? Is there something in a statute stating that.
There's no statute giving the signs power.
There's a specific list of places we can't carry. Everywhere else is legal.
In this state, places with signs are not listed as prohibited.
 

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Brian, just wondering? How do we know Gun Buster signs have no force of law in Florida? Is there something in a statute stating that.
Well, that's the great thing about the way the law works in this country. Anything that isn't specifically illegal is legal. So you never have to prove something is legal (because that would mean proving that there is no statute), the burden is always on the other side to prove something is illegal (that there is a statute).

Some states like Texas give gun buster signs the force of law so long as the signs meet certain requirements. Texans refer to their laws on this topic as the 30.06 and 30.07 laws (after their section numbers). These laws state that if a sign meeting the requirements is posted and a carrier carries there anyway, the carrier has committed a crime.

There is no such law in Florida. Absent such a law these signs merely display the wishes of the property owner. But their wishes do not create criminal liability. That said, if you are asked to leave the premises by the owner or their authorized agent, and do not, then you commit the misdemeanor crime of trespass. If you are armed with a firearm then you commit the felony crime of armed trespass.

We had a member here once upon a time (now perma-banned) who averred that it would be possible to create a sign that was worded in such a way that one would automatically commit armed trespass by carrying in a place that was so-posted. That person never posted the language that they thought could generate that liability without the requirement of the owner or authorized agent having to communicate a warning to the person first. Most of us were dubious that it would be possible to generate criminal liability under Florida's trespassing statute (F.S. 810.08) without an actual warning from the owner or authorized agent.
 

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Well, that's the great thing about the way the law works in this country. Anything that isn't specifically illegal is legal. So you never have to prove something is legal (because that would mean proving that there is no statute), the burden is always on the other side to prove something is illegal (that there is a statute).

Some states like Texas give gun buster signs the force of law so long as the signs meet certain requirements. Texans refer to their laws on this topic as the 30.06 and 30.07 laws (after their section numbers). These laws state that if a sign meeting the requirements is posted and a carrier carries there anyway, the carrier has committed a crime.

There is no such law in Florida. Absent such a law these signs merely display the wishes of the property owner. But their wishes do not create criminal liability. That said, if you are asked to leave the premises by the owner or their authorized agent, and do not, then you commit the misdemeanor crime of trespass. If you are armed with a firearm then you commit the felony crime of armed trespass.

We had a member here once upon a time (now perma-banned) who averred that it would be possible to create a sign that was worded in such a way that one would automatically commit armed trespass by carrying in a place that was so-posted. That person never posted the language that they thought could generate that liability without the requirement of the owner or authorized agent having to communicate a warning to the person first. Most of us were dubious that it would be possible to generate criminal liability under Florida's trespassing statute (F.S. 810.08) without an actual warning from the owner or authorized agent.
That makes sense, thank you
 

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Protecting?
Fair observation. I should have put the word "protecting" in quotes. The statute as a whole would probably be seen as a protective one however.

258.157 Prohibited acts in Savannas State Reserve.—
(1) It is unlawful for any person, except an on-duty law enforcement or conservation officer, to operate a vehicle or A.T.V. in the Savannas unless such person is using the provided ingress or egress to a private holding within the described boundary or using the vehicle or A.T.V. to transport a boat to a public boat ramp accessible only through state reserve property, or unless the vehicle or A.T.V. is being used in conjunction with a permitted or supervised educational field trip, a wildlife survey, or state agency natural resources management activities.
(2) It is unlawful for any person, except a law enforcement or conservation officer, to have in his or her possession any firearm while within the Savannas except when in compliance with regulations established by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission applying to lands within the described boundaries.
(3) Any person who violates this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.​
 

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Fair observation. I should have put the word "protecting" in quotes. The statute as a whole would probably be seen as a protective one however.
BP for the win! :grin

Carried at a school this morning. :)

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BP for the win! :grin

Carried at a school this morning. :)
Just to play devil's advocate, I wonder if you're OK carrying a BP arm at a school?

F.S. 790.115(2)(a) in relevant part:
(2)(a) A person shall not possess any firearm, electric weapon or device, destructive device, or other weapon as defined in s. 790.001(13), including a razor blade or box cutter, except as authorized in support of school-sanctioned activities, at a school-sponsored event or on the property of any school, school bus, or school bus stop;​

F.S. 790.001(13):
“Weapon” means any dirk, knife, metallic knuckles, slungshot, billie, tear gas gun, chemical weapon or device, or other deadly weapon except a firearm or a common pocketknife, plastic knife, or blunt-bladed table knife.​

One might wonder if the BP gun qualifies as "or other deadly weapon". Just using plain English it most certainly would. But as I understand statutory construction in Florida, when the legislature decides to place an item within the purview of a specific definition, then it is excluded from broader, general definitions.

In this case the BP arms in question fall under the definition of "antique firearm" under 790.001(1) (the very first definition in the section), which reads:
“Antique firearm” means any firearm manufactured in or before 1918 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar early type of ignition system) or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1918, and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1918, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.​

Since these BP arms are specifically defined as antique firearms I do not think that the phrase "or other deadly weapon" can be read to include them.

If that is true then it would be lawful to carry a percussion cap revolver openly or concealed on a school campus (though concealed would probably be 1000 times smarter than openly if one were going to do so).

Of course I'm not an attorney and none of this is legal advice. If one was going to do this one would want to make sure they had a CWFL so that if you are wrong and you are convicted at least it will only be a misdemeanor instead of a felony.
 

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But as I understand statutory construction in Florida, when the legislature decides to place an item within the purview of a specific definition, then it is excluded from broader, general definitions.

In this case the BP arms in question fall under the definition of "antique firearm" under 790.001(1) . . . Since these BP arms are specifically defined as antique firearms I do not think that the phrase "or other deadly weapon" can be read to include them.
That is how I understand it, too.


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I agree with Racer88 back in post #5
Agree with all the above. I rarely see them. If I do, I just smile and ignore (with the exception of legally prohibited places, in which case the sign is superfluous because I already know it's a prohibited place).

On a side note... how many people here have been "discovered" in a place with a posted sign? Me? Never (in 24+ years of carry).
I never see anyone's eyes go to my hip and even then they would really have to study my hip to see anything...
No one does that, plus if caught looking there you could be mistaken as checking something else out and look like a pervert LOL!
Gotta be careful checking out peoples privates in this morally correct society.
 
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