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my thoughts exactly

499 Views 17 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  brownie
"Of course the 1911 is an outdated design. It came from an era when weapons were designed to win fights, not to avoid product liability lawsuits. It came from an era where it was the norm to learn how your weapon operated and to practice that operation until it became second nature, not to design the piece to the lowest common denominator. It came from an era in which our country tried to supply its fighting men with the best tools possible, unlike today, when our fighting men and women are issued hardware that was adopted because of international deal-making or the fact that the factory is in some well-connected congressman's district. Yes, beyond any shadow of a doubt, the 1911 IS an outdated design....and that's exactly what I love about it."

- Rosco S. Benson
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Who to F is Roscoe Benson? 馃槑
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I'm familiar with it.
Air gun Trigger Wood Revolver Gun barrel
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Passingly familiar with them.
Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Rectangle Gun accessory


unlike today, when our fighting men and women are issued hardware that was adopted because of international deal-making or the fact that the factory is in some well-connected congressman's district."
Right or wrong, the US government issuing contracts to various companies has LONG been an aspect of US weapons. The simple fact is the older US Armories (Springfield, Rock Island, and Frankford) were never able to meet the needs of the military after 1914.

Starting in WWI, and continuing until the last of the arsenals was shut down in the 1960s, the government was never able make enough weapons quickly enough. The last US Ordinance Department designed weapon, the M-14 and the M-15 were, while accurate, and well built, ultimately failed, because it still had the two big problems the M1 garand did: it was heavy and awkward, and it had a low ammo capacity, and was difficult to controll under full automatic fire, and was replaced by a commercially designed weapon.

Of note, the 1911 and the M1 Carbine were never manufactured by the US government at any arsenal.
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When I see the words "outdated design" my temp goes up about 5 degrees. So many things in the county ,...and the world are considered Outdated. Simplicity has been replaced with complicated. Inexpensive has to be high dollar, and proven is now good till we finish our on going improvements. The 1911 is not for everyone. It is far from a simple design. It is not like a Glock with fixing a problem is to remove and install like parts and they will fit and operate just fine. "Hand fit" is something many gun owners steer clear of, and to carry with hammer cocked with a safety on ....well some so called gun experts have a heart attack thinking about carrying a firearm in that manner.
To make things worse, people say Glock fan boys are the worst. LOL....not even close. 1911 owners are some of the most brand loyal snobs there are. To mention my Tisas 1911s in some of the 1911 forums will almost get me banned for sure. Show me a $10,000 Glock like a Wilson Combat or a $35,000 Cabot Damascus. ....nope can not do. Poly 80 build......ohhhhh brother not even worth mentioning compared to a custom home built 1911 time and money involved.
Yes folks we will never see another handgun like the 1911...surly will not be replaced by a 2011 type. Glock Perfection??? My Glocks have taken a back.....no, not back seat...rear of the bus position compared to the ....as some call them cheap A$s Tisas 1911s I have.
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I carried S/S milspecs 1911's professionally for near 3 decades on the streets. Haven't carried a 1911 in several years now. 3200.00 Ed Brown sits in the safe along with the AO milspec I had Rick McC replace to better internals, and two other milspecs and then there's the no sights 1911 gov model I used to practice Quick Kill pistol with.

Today and for the last few years, I've carried a S+W shield 45. One less round, 15 ounces lighter than a gov model. Or perhaps the G19x gets the nod but not usually over the shield.

The 1911 platform is outdated, but it's not a platform that's going anywhere soon in the US. Lots of people carry a 1911 of one guise or another. I didn't like cocked and locked [ condition 1 ], so I carried them condition 0 [ cocked and manual safety snicked off once it's nestled nicely into it's hand boned holster/s.

At one time I had a dozen collector grade [ 98% original finish or better ] WW1, WW2 milspecs from makers like Colt, Remington Rands, and Ithaca's. They've been sold off long ago now as well. I moved away from the 1911 platform/s that have gotten me out of a few messes over the years.
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Having bought 2 1911s in the past few months I have carried both of them...full size and the Stainless steel Commander a few times. The SS Commander is like carrying a 16lb bowling ball on my side all day long and the full size B45 is not all that small and light. I still find myself carrying the Glock 43x more often than any other firearm. I carry it with the OEM 10 rd mags not the 15 rd after market ones. I do like going to the range with the 45 cal 1911s though. I have what I want with the guns I own, but....The only firearm I would buy if I can find it is a new (which would be hard as they do not make them anymore) 45 cal, CZ 97BD polished.
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Outdated? I have a .44 caliber, model 1873, Colt revolver. I may not carry it for self-defense, but I can guarantee you that it is not so "outdated" that it cannot do just as much damage today as its predecessors did 150 years ago!
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Outdated? I have a .44 caliber, model 1873, Colt revolver. I may not carry it for self-defense, but I can guarantee you that it is not so "outdated" that it cannot do just as much damage today as its predecessors did 150 years ago!
It's the same idea behind FSP instructors trying to sell the idea WW2 pistol skills are outdated. If the armament of that day did it's job at putting people down, it really suggests it'll do the same thing in the modern world [ unless people have become somehow impervious to lead injections which they have not ]. The pistols skills that worked against adversaries then, work just as well today.

I'd go so far as to say the high end 1911's being made today are superior to their older counterparts. Certainly in steels and heat treating, fit and various finishes not available then.
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1911s are for people who can鈥檛 shoot real guns like Glocks
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1911s are for people who can鈥檛 shoot real guns like Glocks
I tried shooting glocks; but they were too damn heavy for the clothespin to hold them on the wire.
(Never mind that I owned a total of five... a looong time ago.)
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I tried shooting glocks; but they were too damn heavy for the clothespin to hold them on the wire.
(Never mind that I owned a total of five... a looong time ago.)
Try the new Glock chambered in 22 LR. (G44)
When I let Racer fire it, it was so light that he field-stripped it to tap the barrel and make sure it was metal.
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Luv my Glocks, would get rid of a Glock for an XDM. Wouldn鈥檛 get rid of my series 70, 1911, for anything , period. When I do carry my 1911, it鈥檚 saftey off, once it鈥檚 holstered. She has a very smooth trigger, thank you Brett @ Wayne Burgquist in Naples, he also did the machining & installed my Trigicon sites. I put on some awesome G10 grips by LOK. I had a fit, feed & function job done by my old friend (RIP) Walter. Reason I don鈥檛 carry it very often; it鈥檚 heavy, the grip is too long to easily conceal, in today鈥檚 environment it has a low capacity, & the main one 鈥.. although it is not exactly a show piece, I sweat like a pig & don鈥檛 want to trash my baby! My Glock is just a Glock & although it鈥檚 thicker, my G27 is easier to conceal with the shorter grip, even though it only has a few more rounds in it, I carry the 15 round reloads. My Glock doesn鈥檛 care about my sweat or rain or heat, it eats anything and goes boom when I want it to, & I guess the main reason I carry it instead is 鈥 it鈥檚 just a Glock, & does exactly what I count on it to do & they鈥檒l make more!! 馃槅
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I can remember back in the mid/late 70's, if you wanted a high end custom fitted parts 1911 for street work or playing in various matches, one had to send their 1911 to guys like Armand Swenson. Today one can buy a 1911 that's every bit as properly tuned/fitted from several semi and custom makers like Ed Browns and Baer's and Wilsons.

Even some of the SA lineup 1911's today are nearly as well made as a Swenson from the 70's.
I carried S/S milspecs 1911's professionally for near 3 decades on the streets. Haven't carried a 1911 in several years now. 3200.00 Ed Brown sits in the safe along with the AO milspec I had Rick McC replace to better internals, and two other milspecs and then there's the no sights 1911 gov model I used to practice Quick Kill pistol with.

Today and for the last few years, I've carried a S+W shield 45. One less round, 15 ounces lighter than a gov model. Or perhaps the G19x gets the nod but not usually over the shield.

The 1911 platform is outdated, but it's not a platform that's going anywhere soon in the US. Lots of people carry a 1911 of one guise or another. I didn't like cocked and locked [ condition 1 ], so I carried them condition 0 [ cocked and manual safety snicked off once it's nestled nicely into it's hand boned holster/s.

At one time I had a dozen collector grade [ 98% original finish or better ] WW1, WW2 milspecs from makers like Colt, Remington Rands, and Ithaca's. They've been sold off long ago now as well. I moved away from the 1911 platform/s that have gotten me out of a few messes over the years.
I've arranged with Rick, who has agreed to do similar work on my M1911A1 CS as he did on your AO milspec 1911. I just need to get it over to him on one of these trips when I go over to visit my mother living not too far from him. 馃
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Who to F is Roscoe Benson? 馃槑
Mr. and Mrs. Benson's boy.
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Who to F is Roscoe Benson? 馃槑
My google-fu turned up this site with series of quotes and comments about the M1911 and the last quote is attributed to a "Roscoe S. Benson." However, I still have no clue who Mr. Benson is or was. :unsure:
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My google-fu turned up this site with series of quotes and comments about the M1911 and the last quote is attributed to a "Roscoe S. Benson." However, I still have no clue who Mr. Benson is or was. :unsure:
Tom Givens,
"the 1911 is NOT a gun for the casual user, or what we call NDP鈥檚 (non-dedicated personnel). The gun was designed when technology was expensive, but skilled labor was not"

And yet the military adopted it, handed it to soldiers, gave them a few hours on it at the range and set them loose on the enemy. The 1911 is a secondary weapon, a casual weapon for most military personnel. Rarely shot in battles relatively speaking by soldiers with little time on the range with it.

Roscoe Benson
"The gangster era of the 1930s and the two world wars are mythical, archetypal times, and during that time, the 鈥淐olt Automatic鈥 was the butt-kicking pistol. There really wasn鈥檛 any competition over here in auto pistols. Of the great pistols, only the Luger co-existed with the M1911 and they weren鈥檛 very popular in the States. The Luger was feared and respected, but our lawmen, soldiers and hoods didn鈥檛 select it to create their legends. I don鈥檛 know if the Glock or the Beretta will ever get the chance to serve during an era as uniquely suited to the creation of legend and mystique in the way the M1911 did. It鈥檚 a matter of being in the right place at the right time, and getting the job done when the chips were down."

And he decides to carry a Kimber. I'm not impressed with that decision.

Do you think Cooper or Taylor could ever be objective in their opinion on "best handgun for SD"? ;)

I'll tell right now, THE most accurate, reliable easy to shoot pistols I've ever owned were HK P7-m8 and m13's, not my 1911's that'd I put hundreds of thousands of rounds through. The gun is rarely mentioned today.
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