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muzzle energy

683 Views 34 Replies 18 Participants Last post by  Trackoffools
9mm 124 grain s/v about 364
9mm 147 grain s/v about 320
45acp ball [ military loading since ww2 ] about 365
45acp 230 grain HP's about 404

The 45acp replaced the 38's in military service around 1900 due to the 38's not putting Moro's down reliably enough. That 230 ball load the GI's liked over their 38's only developed 365 fpe. The 9mm 124 grain produces nearly identical fpe as the standard 230 ball GI loads.

The best 45 HP's s/v expand to about .72 in ballistic gel. In one flesh test, the HST expanded to .870.
The best 9mm HP's expand to roughly .60 in gel.

Best 45 loads dig 14", the best 9mm loads dig 16". But I'm not convinced that anything over 12" of penetration makes any difference for most SD scenarios.

Organs in a normal human facing us can be as shallow as 3.5" and as deep as 6".

I'm reminded of the full time firearms instructor for San Jose PD citing their first 6 street shootings COM with the 9mm Winchester ranger T 147 grain loads, were one shot stops. They had previously used a 9mm that wasn't giving them the results they wanted to see on the streets.

Are there 9mm loads acceptable for SD? Yes
Are there 45acp loads acceptable for SD? Yes.

Are there loads in each caliber that aren't as acceptable for SD? Yes

Thus, it's not the caliber that matters, it's the load chosen on those calibers that's important. I could show 45acp loads that don't dig as deep or expand as much as a best 9mm load. Can also show 9mm loads that don't dig as deep or expand as much as the best 45acp loads.

All this banter about caliber is a waste of time. Ones time is better spent on researching the best loads for each caliber, not which caliber to carry along with not relying on one round to stop a imminent threat no matter what caliber you're carrying.
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I like the 9 because of the ability to carry lots of rounds. I鈥檝e always chosen the Winchester Ranger Ts. With that said I also have a Rock Island Armory .45 that holds 14+1. Problem is the thing is a beast. Very heavy and if you run out of rounds it makes a great club. 馃槅
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So what are members carrying for SD calibers today?

380/9mm/40/45acp?

and why?
Mostly 9mm with occasional .380 as a pocket carry when needed. I used to carry .45 but prefer the higher round capacity as the round technology of 9 has caught up. I did buy the Rock Island Armory .45 with 14+1 and really like the gun, it just weighs a lot. I like .45s a lot, but I like more rounds on tap a lot more.

Eta: I did carry the 40 about twenty years ago when it came out and was popular. I liked the 鈥渃ompromise鈥 of larger bullets than 9 and more capacity of the 45 at the time. When the 9mm round technology improved a good deal, I switched to the 9mm for more rounds and softer recoil.
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I used to carry a .45 Commander. Now I carry a 9mm. Mainly because, with the arthritis I have in my hands, the recoil of the 9mm is more manageable for me.
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For .45 ACP EDC, loads are:
1a) 230 gr Fed HST or
1b) 230 gr Winchester Ranger T

For 9mm EDC, loads are:
2a) 147 gr Fed HST
2b) 147 gr Winchester Ranger T

Why? Because those loads are often issued by LEAs and have been proven effective against BGs on the streets.
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9mm with 115g Silvertips. I've shot the 9mm a lot more than I've shot my .45 and am much more comfortable (confident) with it. Number of rounds is also a consideration, but for me that's a minor one. Cost of ammo was certainly a factor over the years, now not so much. As your original post points out, there's good to be had in either caliber and I've never really gotten too much into the caliber debates. If either one will do the job, to me it doesn't matter which one is on the belt.
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. 45 acp with Wilson Custom ammo. 230 grain Barnes solid copper HP bullet, low flash VV powder
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9mm 124gr Federal HST

Why? Because I can carry 15+1 in a pistol smaller and lighter than an Officer sized 1911.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Mostly 9mm, for the obvious hi-capacity that many guns in that caliber provide.
.45 acp was my favorite chambering in my 1911s for many years; but training and the nightly news have provided much info supporting the need to carry hi-cap pistols. And spare fully loaded magazines (plural).
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357 Sig
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So what are members carrying for SD calibers today?

380/9mm/40/45acp?

and why?
I've ratcheted back to 9mm carry simply because of the prohibitive cost of .45acp training ammo. I used to buy .45+P carry ammo for less than what .45 range stuff currently costs. Fortunately, I still have a lifetime supply of both the .45 and 9mm carry stuff.

I shoot quite a bit. 9mm presents the most affordable practical options for me. I carry what I practice with.
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9mm with Federal HST 124gr
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Yesterday when this thread started and today too:
Glock 17 AIWB with Ranger T 127 +P+ and a Sig 365 with HST 124 +P in pocket.
Yesterday didn't do much, went by Walgreens and picked up a pizza for dinner.
This afternoon I'll walk to the beach with my wife and look at the ocean.

Sometimes I carry a Glock 22 with RDS instead of the 17 which has fixed sights.
I wear glasses driving, but may or may not otherwise; my driving is almost all top down during daylight so I'm wearing prescription sunglasses which I leave in the car or put on top of my head if I go in a store. I can see fixed sights fine without glasses.
My license is not restricted to wearing glasses, but I can read signs further away with them on.
Last weekend I went to a movie and knew I'd be wearing glasses the whole time so I carried the 22 with RDS, glasses make the dot clear.
The 22 is loaded with 180 HST.

Muzzle energy?
I've not chronographed the Glock 17 but I did chrono the 127 +P+ Ranger T from a Glock 19
Glock19: Winchester Ranger T 127 gr. +P+ @ 1,235 fps / 430# KE
Glock 22: Federal HST 180 gr. @ 996 fps / 397# KE
I'd say I'm fairly well protected either way.

I've not chronographed the Sig 365 but I did chrono the 124+P HST in a Glock 43
Federal HST 124 +P @ 1,135 fps / 355# KE
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I carry a .22 without a round in the chamber because the Israelis say it鈥檚 cool.
J/k. People that know me know what I do. And it ain鈥檛 that.
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I carry a .22 without a round in the chamber because the Israelis say it鈥檚 cool.
J/k. People that know me know what I do. And it ain鈥檛 that.
Bob channeling DEAheat, now that is funny! 馃ぃ馃ぃ馃ぃ
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Bob channeling DEAheat, now that is funny! 馃ぃ馃ぃ馃ぃ
I was going to make a similar comment but you beat me to it. ;)
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For .45 ACP EDC, loads are:
1a) 230 gr Fed HST or
1b) 230 gr Winchester Ranger T

For 9mm EDC, loads are:
2a) 147 gr Fed HST
2b) 147 gr Winchester Ranger T

Why? Because those loads are often issued by LEAs and have been proven effective against BGs on the streets.
Same here鈥︹︹︹..though i am considering the Lehigh load for my 380
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For .45, 230gr, I鈥檓 a Federal HST guy.

We both use Federal HST for 9mm in 124gr.

On the rare occasion that I carry the 40 S&W, I use Gold Dots in 180gr.

I haven鈥檛 carried the 380 in a decade but when I did, I carried Hornady Critical Defense in 90gr. If I was going to carry this caliber again, I would have to do a lot of research to make sure the ballistics were good. I鈥檝e heard reports since I quit that Critical Defense doesn鈥檛 reliably expand in FBI tests.
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Have been carrying my Glock 43x for a few years, but started to carry either of the Tisas 1911s I bought. Was carrying the SS Commander, but that thing weighs a ton so I bought a holster for the B45 Duty and so far I have liked it.
Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Gun accessory Everyday carry

rying it.
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