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after seeing the attack in India today just curious of how you guys might handle it say you are in a restaurant 4 or 5 shooters come in blazing? 
multiple shooters
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These terrorists make me sick
I would take cover and return fire as much as I could. This is where those extra magazines would come in handy because 15+1 rounds would not last very long against multiple attackers.
I do think returning fire would throw the attackers off balance because they probably won't expect anyone to shoot back at them. They might assume everyone there is all sheep.
Never sit with your back to the entrance and profile everyone around you and anyone who walks through the door. Profiling people will save your life.
I would take cover and return fire as much as I could. This is where those extra magazines would come in handy because 15+1 rounds would not last very long against multiple attackers.
I do think returning fire would throw the attackers off balance because they probably won't expect anyone to shoot back at them. They might assume everyone there is all sheep.
Never sit with your back to the entrance and profile everyone around you and anyone who walks through the door. Profiling people will save your life.
Way to many variables to consider in the scenario you present. My first action would be to take cover. After that, it becomes dependant upon the tactics being used by the BGs.
As a side note, I don't agree that profiling as a primary method of identifying BGs is the way to go. Just because a person fits in a preconceived mold of how a BG looks or acts doesn't make them a BG and then of course the opposite is also true... all BGs don't look like BGs. Additionally, a threat you see coming is normally easier to handle than one that blindsides you. For me, It's the BGs that fit in with everyone else and have a hidden agenda that concern me. I believe profiling leads to a false sense of security and can easily just present a distraction from the real task of just being observant and ready to act.
Once again, sorry for the thread creep.
RS
As a side note, I don't agree that profiling as a primary method of identifying BGs is the way to go. Just because a person fits in a preconceived mold of how a BG looks or acts doesn't make them a BG and then of course the opposite is also true... all BGs don't look like BGs. Additionally, a threat you see coming is normally easier to handle than one that blindsides you. For me, It's the BGs that fit in with everyone else and have a hidden agenda that concern me. I believe profiling leads to a false sense of security and can easily just present a distraction from the real task of just being observant and ready to act.
Once again, sorry for the thread creep.
RS
RckShrk,
I try to keep an eye out on who is around me. I "profile" the people around me.
Here is a scenario, not a true life example.
Let's say I just finished Christmas shopping and I'm leaving the store with plenty of packages in my arms. 3 males of around 20 years of age with their pants hanging down their butts are smoking outside the store. I cross the traffic lane and enter the parking area. They drop their smokes and cross behind me 10 seconds after I do.
I'm going to profile them as bad guys based upon their actions. I don't know they are out to rob me but I'm going to assume they're up to no good. I wont draw and fire. I will key myself up and do something. Perhaps I'll put my bags on the ground and face them. Perhaps I'll make a loop and head back to the store.
Or a terrorism scenario, perhaps?
I'm in a hotel lobby. 6 people come in wearing long coats, all young males some of which are sweaty with a far away look in their eyes. Two go towards each door then stop near the doors and the remaining people walk to the walls and just stand around.
Maybe they all have really bad breath and don't want to be near one another. Maybe they're terrorists.
I'm going to assume they're terrorists or robbers. Maybe I'll try to head to the door when I see it starting. Maybe I'll try to find cover to stand near. Maybe I'll try to hide my weapon somewhere they wont likely find it. I don't know what I would do but I'll assume they're bad guys. I'll profile them.
You can't run around at a high alert level with the adrenaline dumping all the time. What you can do is try to keep an eye on who is around you and profile them.
There is nothing wrong with profiling people.
I try to keep an eye out on who is around me. I "profile" the people around me.
Here is a scenario, not a true life example.
Let's say I just finished Christmas shopping and I'm leaving the store with plenty of packages in my arms. 3 males of around 20 years of age with their pants hanging down their butts are smoking outside the store. I cross the traffic lane and enter the parking area. They drop their smokes and cross behind me 10 seconds after I do.
I'm going to profile them as bad guys based upon their actions. I don't know they are out to rob me but I'm going to assume they're up to no good. I wont draw and fire. I will key myself up and do something. Perhaps I'll put my bags on the ground and face them. Perhaps I'll make a loop and head back to the store.
Or a terrorism scenario, perhaps?
I'm in a hotel lobby. 6 people come in wearing long coats, all young males some of which are sweaty with a far away look in their eyes. Two go towards each door then stop near the doors and the remaining people walk to the walls and just stand around.
Maybe they all have really bad breath and don't want to be near one another. Maybe they're terrorists.
I'm going to assume they're terrorists or robbers. Maybe I'll try to head to the door when I see it starting. Maybe I'll try to find cover to stand near. Maybe I'll try to hide my weapon somewhere they wont likely find it. I don't know what I would do but I'll assume they're bad guys. I'll profile them.
You can't run around at a high alert level with the adrenaline dumping all the time. What you can do is try to keep an eye on who is around you and profile them.
There is nothing wrong with profiling people.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with profiling, which is why I underlined and bold-ed the word primary.... as in "primary method of identifying BGs" in my first reply.
My point is simply that while you are distracted by the baggy/saggy pants gang, it's the guy that looks like you who gets you from behind... or in the case of guys rushing into a hotel lobby, it's the two guys who were planted in advance who notice you hide your weapon.
Overt acts and dumb BGs are far easier to deal when compared to covert acts, seemingly nice people with hidden agendas and BGs with smarts.
My point is simply that while you are distracted by the baggy/saggy pants gang, it's the guy that looks like you who gets you from behind... or in the case of guys rushing into a hotel lobby, it's the two guys who were planted in advance who notice you hide your weapon.
Overt acts and dumb BGs are far easier to deal when compared to covert acts, seemingly nice people with hidden agendas and BGs with smarts.
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I was thinking of this just today. I agree that in the case of terrorists the BG is probably not going to be a gang banger type or any typical BG type we see in the US. I think they will look like Euro trash which will make them stand out like a sore thumb in the FL panhandle. I think they would probably be very well organized, orchestrated and trained. There will be several and probably some spotters. I have every intention of fighting back in that scenario. I know quite well I probably won’t survive for long but if I can throw them off their game long enough for my family if they are with me and other innocent people to get away then it will make my 57 years on this earth worth while.
Now here is something I have been mauling over. Here in the FL panhandle I sincerely do not know anyone who is not gun friendly. Of everyone I know and have met probably 95% own guns, hunt, carry guns on them or in their vehicle. The rest either want to own but can not afford a gun or have decided not to own for other reasons. So the chances of having more than one CCW carrier and probably others without the CCW in a place that is being attacked is pretty good. Here is my question: How do we identify ourselves to each other? If bad guys dressed in plain clothes open fire and several armed citizens respond. How do we know who the bad guys and good guys are? I would bet on the guys with assault rifles being the bad guys and concentrate on them. I have thought of this and can’t come up with a way to indicate to others around me that I am a good guy without yelling it out.
Now here is something I have been mauling over. Here in the FL panhandle I sincerely do not know anyone who is not gun friendly. Of everyone I know and have met probably 95% own guns, hunt, carry guns on them or in their vehicle. The rest either want to own but can not afford a gun or have decided not to own for other reasons. So the chances of having more than one CCW carrier and probably others without the CCW in a place that is being attacked is pretty good. Here is my question: How do we identify ourselves to each other? If bad guys dressed in plain clothes open fire and several armed citizens respond. How do we know who the bad guys and good guys are? I would bet on the guys with assault rifles being the bad guys and concentrate on them. I have thought of this and can’t come up with a way to indicate to others around me that I am a good guy without yelling it out.
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If there are 4 or 5 guys, all of which are shooting, you've got some bad odds if you stay and fight. My suggestions would be to take cover, if your family is with you protect them and find a way out. If you can't get out, move to a defensive position and do just that, go on the defensive. Unless you're trained to handle that scenario and can do so in a manner that doesn't endanger anyone else, you're better off not going on the offensive. Just my opinion.
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Actually I was thinking of a place like a bank or office building. Not many places to hide there. You are probably right though. It might just make things worst. But what can be worst than a group of guys that want to kill everyone in the building? They will search out and kill everyone in the building. The terrorists in Mumbai did not take hostages that I know of. They just started killing everyone they thought was a Westerner. In the USA they don't have to pick them out they just have to kill everyone in the place. We are all Westerners. That's why sometimes I think it would be a waste of man power for them to do that in the USA. A suicide bomber in a HS football game can take out many more and only loose one fighter. The same suicide bomber in a WalMart parking lot during a black friday sale can do even more damage. Especially if he waits till close to opening when everyone is packed tight against each other.
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I'm of the mindset that my family are top priority if I'm with them. In that case, my first goal is to help them make a safe escape if possible. If not, to defend them from behind the closest/best cover immediately available. If the attackers are hell bent on killing everyone in the place, I suppose I might have to go on the offensive and try to draw fire away from my family while they continue to try to escape or stay behind cover.
Fortunately, "family" right now is just my wife and me. I'll have to hope if I ever find myself in that situation that she's carrying too. I've been encouraging her to carry more often. We'll see how that works out.
At the moment, of course, I'm still waiting on my license. So if we encounter multiple shooters anywhere other than my office, house or car, my best option may be to throw my nice hard tactical flashlight and run like hell.
- Str8Shooter
Fortunately, "family" right now is just my wife and me. I'll have to hope if I ever find myself in that situation that she's carrying too. I've been encouraging her to carry more often. We'll see how that works out.
At the moment, of course, I'm still waiting on my license. So if we encounter multiple shooters anywhere other than my office, house or car, my best option may be to throw my nice hard tactical flashlight and run like hell.
- Str8Shooter
Interesting question with no foolproof solution. Sounds like the law abiding citizen will more than likely have to go defensive, taking cover until they can make a decision they are willing to live or possibly die with. Perhaps simply focusing on saving their own butt and that of their family and friends accompanying them which means taking out potential BGs is secondary.
Maybe it should be mandated that all BGs have to wear a BG tag for easy identification.:thumsup
Looking forward to the post that are generated in response to your question,
RS
And we can all whip out our concealed carry badges? :rolf
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LMAO. :rolf You could run like hell and hope you make it out w/o eating lead
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