Florida Concealed Carry banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/opinion/fl-concealed-weapon-forum-0831-20100831,0,3152565.story

Above is a link to an article that the Sun Sentinel printed for me today. I wrote it and submitted it late one night last week. There are some great links on the FCC that I should have looked up first to verify the statutory information before submitting the article, but the message conveyed is what is most important.

In Broward County, there is a mandatory 5 day waiting period before a legal purchaser of a firearm can take the gun home. Florida State Law states that the waiting period is 3 days.

However, Florida Law also states that the mandatory waiting period is inapplicable to Floridians with a Florida concealed weapon carry permit. The inapplicability of the law to holders of a CCW is a great victory for the second amendment of the constitution. However, the article I wrote was asking why the mandatory wait is not also inapplicable towards a LEO who has sworn an oath to protect the US constitution and who professionally qualifies regularly for firearm proficiency.

I feel that it is a slap in the face to our oath keepers. If you agree with me, please post a comment below the sun sentinel article I've written. I'm planning on sending e-mails to the president of the Broward PBA, to several politicians and I plan on giving copies of the article to some police and sheriff deputies I know to see if anyone can help get sworn police officers and deputies added to the inapplicability list to the mandatory wait.

If this doesn't work, I'm planning to prepare a petition. I’d love to have any feedback from my friends here on the FCC and I appreciate any support you can give.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,669 Posts
I support your effort. There is absolutely no reason that a certified LEO shouldn't be exempt from the waiting period, as CWFL holders are. The only criticism I could possibly make is an administrative one, in that the statute to which you refer would more correctly be referred to as §790.0655 Florida Statutes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,690 Posts
I think you are a little confused here.

Sections 18-98 and 18-99, 18-97, and 18-96 are local Broward County Ordinances. They are not part of the Florida Statutes. These ordinances are authorized by a Constitutional amendment approved in the 11-3-1998, election. Don't blame them too much, they could not legally exclude Police Officers if they wanted to.

This amendment came about because the Florida Legislature refused to bow to the Brady Group's pressure to address what they call the "Gun Show Loophole". Since the Legislature did not react to their ‘doom and gloom, blood in the streets’ rantings, the Brady Bunch got some money together got the amendment on the ballot, then flooded radio and TV with a highly slanted story, and the stupid (err, uninformed) public bit.

Now, way back in the 11-6-1990 election another Constitutional amendment was adopted by the voters that established the State-wide three-day waiting period. It also exempted CWFL holders and failed to do so for Police. Codified as Florida Statute 790.0655.

This is one of the biggest problems with Constitutional amendments; they are designed to circumvent the legislative process and appeal directly to the emotion of the public.

So, why do cops have to wait 3-5 days to pick up a personal firearm they purchased? Because the public assumed the new amendments would not apply to them - seems so reasonable doesn’t it?

Your contempt should be directed to the voters of Florida, not the County nor the State. Well maybe the county, because they did not have to pass this ordinance, but then the Police officers would still be subject to the state-wide three day wait.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for replying to the post at the Sun Sentinel too Brboyer. I posted a response to you there before realizing that you are from the FCC. You are correct about my error. I only realized it after reading the posted article.

I sent an e-mail to the president of the Broward Police Benevolent Association to see if there is anything that the PBA could do to help get sworn law enforcement added to the list of those that the mandatory wait do not apply to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,690 Posts
Thanks for replying to the post at the Sun Sentinel too Brboyer. I posted a response to you there before realizing that you are from the FCC. You are correct about my error. I only realized it after reading the posted article.

I sent an e-mail to the president of the Broward Police Benevolent Association to see if there is anything that the PBA could do to help get sworn law enforcement added to the list of those that the mandatory wait do not apply to.
Yeah, I use a different handle and junk e-mail address for posting in blogs and newspaper editorials.

Here is the reply I just posted.

This would have to be accomplished with another Constitutional amendment, amending Article 1, Section 8(b) (codified in 790.0655, FS) as well as Article 8, Section 5(b) of the Florida Constitution, by adding LEO's to the list of exemptions and adding language that requires all municipal ordinances to be modified to comply with the new language.

A simple legislative change to 790.0655 would not be enough as the 3-5 day waiting period language (without a LEO exception) exists solely in the Constitution and not available for legislative modification.

Proposals for inclusion into a ballot initiative to amend the Florida Constitution can be initiated in several ways, including:
  • Proposal by Legislature with joint resolution.
  • Proposal by a Constitution Revision Commission that meets every 20 years, next meetings start in 2017.
  • Proposal by citizen initiative, which requires a petition signed by as many voters as 8 percent of the votes cast in the state’s congressional districts during the last presidential election.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,792 Posts
Just to stir the puddin' a little....

790.33(1)(d)(3) states that LEO and corrections officers are exempt from 'any' waiting periods.

Now...does that mean they are exempt from any waiting period the city/county adopts in addition to to the state mandated 3-day waiting period (which they are allowed to do under 790.33), or does it mean they are REALL exempt from ANY waiting period?

:popcorn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,690 Posts
Just to stir the puddin' a little....

790.33(1)(d)(3) states that LEO and corrections officers are exempt from 'any' waiting periods.

Now...does that mean they are exempt from any waiting period the city/county adopts in addition to to the state mandated 3-day waiting period (which they are allowed to do under 790.33), or does it mean they are REALL exempt from ANY waiting period?

:popcorn
It's actually 790.33(2)(d)(3), but it is superseded by the Constitution because the Constitution is the supreme law of the land. :dancingbanana

And 790.0655, passed in 1991, supersedes 790.33(2)(d), passed in 1987, because in 1994, the Florida Supreme Court ruled:
(W)hen two statutes are in conflict, the later promulgated statute should prevail as the last expression of legislative intent.

McKendry v. State, 641 So. 2d 45



:nangel
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,792 Posts
What jackass put 1 right next to 2 on the keyboard, anyway???? :drinks

...such being...790.33(2)(d) should have been written out when 790.0655 was passed....just more t-town knee-jerk idiocy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,690 Posts
What jackass put 1 right next to 2 on the keyboard, anyway???? :drinks

...such being...790.33(2)(d) should have been written out when 790.0655 was passed....just more t-town knee-jerk idiocy.
Well the new local option, 3-5 day, County waiting period did not go into effect until the '98 amendment and there was no legslative action stipulated in that amendment (unlike the 1990 amendment - i.e. 790.0655) So the Legslature being the dopes that they are, did not take it upon themsleves to clear things up! :smack
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
I'm not a politation or lawyer but I personally feel that a Low Enforcement Officer is not exempt from a law just because they are a Law Enforcement Officer. Before I got my CCW Permit I had to wait to pick up my handgun. Why is an officer better than me?

I was at my local dealer one time when a local Police Officer came in in his uniform on duty and bought a personal gun. He didn't have a CCW permit and hit the roof yelling and carrying on when he was told he had to wait. My thinking is a cop who enforces the law should understand and respect why a dealer has to abide by the law. Being a cop doesn't make someone above the law.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I'm not a politation or lawyer but I personally feel that a Law Enforcement Officer is not exempt from a law just because they are a Law Enforcement Officer. Before I got my CCW Permit I had to wait to pick up my handgun. Why is an officer better than me?

I was at my local dealer one time when a local Police Officer came in in his uniform on duty and bought a personal gun. He didn't have a CCW permit and hit the roof yelling and carrying on when he was told he had to wait. My thinking is a cop who enforces the law should understand and respect why a dealer has to abide by the law. Being a cop doesn't make someone above the law.
Sworn Oath keeper law enforcement officers are not above the law. However, a Florida State certified law enforcement officer should be equal with a civilian who holds a Florida concealed weapons license as far as being qualified to not have to wait a rediculous mandatory waiting period.
I've been told that Florida state law states that the 3 day mandatory wait does not apply to law enforcement officers as well as to a holder of Florida CCW. I'm being told that the mandatory wait for sworn law enforcement is required by municipal codes in Broward, Dade and Palm Beach Counties. People are researching different ways of having these gun right violating codes nullified.

Full site: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.065.html

790.065
Sale and delivery of firearms.


(d) Received a unique approval number for that inquiry from the Department of Law Enforcement, and recorded the date and such number on the consent form.
However, if the person purchasing, or receiving delivery of, the firearm is a holder of a valid concealed weapons or firearms license pursuant to the provisions of s. 790.06 or holds an active certification from the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission as a “law enforcement officer,” a “correctional officer,” or a “correctional probation officer” as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), (3), (6), (7), (8), or (9), the provisions of this subsection do not apply.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,669 Posts
I'm not a politation or lawyer but I personally feel that a Low Enforcement Officer is not exempt from a law just because they are a Law Enforcement Officer. Before I got my CCW Permit I had to wait to pick up my handgun. Why is an officer better than me?

I was at my local dealer one time when a local Police Officer came in in his uniform on duty and bought a personal gun. He didn't have a CCW permit and hit the roof yelling and carrying on when he was told he had to wait. My thinking is a cop who enforces the law should understand and respect why a dealer has to abide by the law. Being a cop doesn't make someone above the law.
But you must take into consideration why there is a waiting (or cooling off) period. If it is meant to prevent someone who is in a "fit of passion" going out, buying a gun, then immediately killing someone with it. In the case of a CWFL holder OR a LEO, they already have posession of a weapon so the waiting period serves no real purpose. That's the way I understand it, anyway. If anyone else has another interpretation, please chime in...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,719 Posts
But you must take into consideration why there is a waiting (or cooling off) period. If it is meant to prevent someone who is in a "fit of passion" going out, buying a gun, then immediately killing someone with it. In the case of a CWFL holder OR a LEO, they already have posession of a weapon so the waiting period serves no real purpose. That's the way I understand it, anyway. If anyone else has another interpretation, please chime in...
The only other thing I can also think of: What does it take for us to obtain a CWL? Take a 2 hour class about the carry laws in Florida and a proficiency test that my 10 year old grandson could have passed. Well, that and cost involved, that is.

Taking in consideration that an officer attends the academy, I would assume that at least 2 hours are covered in the subject. Additionally, they are required to qualify with their weapon.

Would it be logical to assume their training should meet those required of CWL?
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
653 Posts
I am going to throw this out there even though I have not researched it thoroughly because I am sure I am correct:

Florida Statute prohibits any county/municipality from regulating firearms and that should include waiting periods or who has to wait. The Florida Legislature has held that gun control is the sole responsibility of the legislature and all county and municipal regulations dealing with firearms are hereby null and void. I will look up the Statute or Constitutional Amendment and put it below when I find it.

Ok, I take it back. I found the Constitutional Amendment that gives counties the right to impose a waiting period within their county. Sucks in my opinion and I am not a LEO. I think its stupid to exempt LEOs from getting a CWFL and then give the CWFL holders an exemption to the waiting period and not the LEO. I think it can be corrected and should be. I will vote for that correction to the Constitution. LEOs carry a gun anyway. The whole idea of the waiting period is for a background criminal check. Hello, already done. Also to keep guns out of the hands of persons that are angered at the moment. Hello again, they already have a gun strapped to their waist. I think it was just an oversight. But I am surprised it hasn't been addressed till now.

If it will give you any comfort, many gun dealers are making every one go through the three day waiting period whether you have a CWFL or not. At least that's what I have been told.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
The mandatory wait is nonsense anyways. It is just another dent put into our second amendment rights.

I understand that people may have different mixed feelings about law enforcement and I don't like the example used of an officer in uniform, making a stink at a store because of the mandatory wait. I can imagine that his behavior appeared unprofessional. I can however, understand his frustration.

I often hear people complain about police who don't respect their rights. What kind of an example to law enforcement is a community that doesn't respect the rights of law enforcement?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Just to toss this in: An active (working) certified law enforcement officer can obtain his CWFL for free. That would solve the problem.

However, I do disagree with the need for a waiting period for law enforcement. Heck, I disagree with the need for a waiting period for anyone.

If I were to be pissed off enough to want to kill someone, I'd just go buy a shotgun or rifle that has no "cooling off" period inherent in its purchase.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
FHP dude-

I hope I have not misinformed officers in the past by telling them that the application fee to the department of agriculture is reduced to $75. Are you sure that officers get their ccw for free? I don't have my resources with me because I'm on the road. It won't be the first time I have made an error in life, but I want to get my facts straight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
FHP dude-

I hope I have not misinformed officers in the past by telling them that the application fee to the department of agriculture is reduced to $75. Are you sure that officers get their ccw for free? I don't have my resources with me because I'm on the road. It won't be the first time I have made an error in life, but I want to get my facts straight.
Apparently I am wrong....no fee for background checks or fingerprinting, but a basic license fee is required.

My wife must have sent in my renewals.....
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top