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Discussion Starter #1
I'm wondering whether the following scenario (however improbable) would sway some of these (I don't even know what to call them..):

You're not the aggressor or instigator, but someone with an attitude/agenda comes at you with a knife.
You're armed, and a good aim in a crisis.
The ONLY way to prevent getting cut is to shoot the attacker, and if you shoot, (under this scenario) the attacker will die right there at the scene.

Here's the wrinkle:
The outcome is guaranteed that you're going to get cut, but that cut won't be life threatening, won't get infected, and will definitely need fewer than 10 stitches to patch you up. You will have a permanent, ugly scar on your person to memorialize the encounter - but otherwise no lasting issues whatsoever. Your insurance will cover the hospital costs, and your premiums won't go up.

Question:
Do you shoot (and thereby kill)?
Or are you willing to trade a small scar to "save" the attacker's life?

To me, (and I've only thought though this "what-if" scenario for barely a few hours, so it may have some problems), but I think it gets to the core of "personal defense".
When it's somebody else, especially a stranger on TV, it's easy (for some) to armchair referee what "should" be done, and what the outcome "should" be.
(* Here, I'm specifically thinking about the allegedly drunk guy in the Wendy's parking lot who got shot twice in the back by police after (again, allegedly) resisting arrest, forcefully taking one of the officer's weapons (a taser), and then (allegedly) firing, or attempting to fire said weapon at the officers.)

Now I guess, depending on how the discussion goes... there are modifiers that could be added.
It might tease out some interesting (yet flawed) beliefs that people unconcerned with personal defense might harbor.

For example: Let's say....
1) The scar wouldn't be visible to most people, in ordinary life situations (work, play, etc...)
2) Or - The scar would be on your face.
3) Or - The attacker's rap sheet shows a long history of violent assault
4) Or - What if the attacker is a teenager?
5) Or - What if that teenager is pregnant?
4) Or - Fill in the blank ???

It would be interesting to see how some of those armchair referees / media pundits wiggle around a scenario like this.

Comments anyone?
 

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Here's the wrinkle:
The outcome is guaranteed that you're going to get cut, but that cut won't be life threatening, won't get infected, and will definitely need fewer than 10 stitches to patch you up. You will have a permanent, ugly scar on your person to memorialize the encounter - but otherwise no lasting issues whatsoever. Your insurance will cover the hospital costs, and your premiums won't go up.
The premise is impossible. There's no way to "guarantee" the outcome of a knife attack being a small cut "requiring fewer than 10 stitches."
 

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For example: Let's say....
1) The scar wouldn't be visible to most people, in ordinary life situations (work, play, etc...)
2) Or - The scar would be on your face.
3) Or - The attacker's rap sheet shows a long history of violent assault
4) Or - What if the attacker is a teenager?
5) Or - What if that teenager is pregnant?
4) Or - Fill in the blank ???
Equally preposterous arguments or hypotheticals that have no bearing or relevance to the situation of a LETHAL threat involving an attacker armed with a knife.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I agree with you - but this is a "what if" - and I've purposely tried to structure it as a discussion starter for people who might actually think it's OK, given the guaranteed outcome.
After all, it's only a little scar..... Right?

Sort of like that joke about the prostitute, and would you "do it" for a million bucks.
After which, you're just negotiating on price. (or something like that.)

Here, I'm attempting to push the (obviously ridiculous) envelope as to what's "acceptable" to people who don't think like you and me.
That's the set of facts - and the outcome is guaranteed.
No easy outs for being hypothetical / non-real world situation.

I would just about bet you that most (ok, "many"?) left-wing snowflakes / soy-boys would opt for the scar.
This latest generation (age 20-35-ish) is awfully soft, in a kumbaya sort of way. (Of course, we did kind of screw them over multiple times, but that's another topic for later.)
What happened to PERSONAL responsibility, and personal action? Seems nobody's prepared for anything and they want it all handed to them on a platter.
Well, I was hoping to nail it down to a DECISION. A position.
 

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I've been hearing people saying, "Why can't the cops shoot them in the leg?" a lot lately. UGH!
 

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The premise is impossible. There's no way to "guarantee" the outcome of a knife attack being a small cut "requiring fewer than 10 stitches."
Yes,how can you know in advance how badly you will get hurt?
 

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Can we all practice Tueller rule safe distancing?
 

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Can we all practice Tueller rule safe distancing?
I was in Brownie’s Force on Force class where we did this. Everyone was able to get a shot off because we were expecting the attack. But some of us barely got the shot off.

In the real world a man with a knife who is coming at you in attack mode will most likely get a lot closer to you than Brownie did in our class, so you better be prepared with non gun based evasion techniques that lead you to a firing solution.
 

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I was in Brownie’s Force on Force class where we did this. Everyone was able to get a shot off because we were expecting the attack. But some of us barely got the shot off.

In the real world a man with a knife who is coming at you in attack mode will most likely get a lot closer to you than Brownie did in our class, so you better be prepared with non gun based evasion techniques that lead you to a firing solution.
This..^^^^^^


Also, there is no way to know if you are only going to have a scar or pushing up daisies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I was in Brownie’s Force on Force class where we did this. Everyone was able to get a shot off because we were expecting the attack. But some of us barely got the shot off.

In the real world a man with a knife who is coming at you in attack mode will most likely get a lot closer to you than Brownie did in our class, so you better be prepared with non gun based evasion techniques that lead you to a firing solution.
One of the best exercises of those classes chocked full of extremely useful self-defense techniques, IMHO! Getting off the line of attack at just the right moment helped! (y)
 
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Hypothetically, of course if you had ever seen the light go out in a person’s eyes up close. If you contemplated whether their spirit just drifted away. If you realized that when you got older and more mellow that the image of that would replay as you try to stay asleep, you would take ten stitches.

I think Edgehill and Beerhunter are correct. In the most likely knife attack it’s going to come down to hand to hand avoidance. Your motivation was good for the scenario but, respectfully, doesn’t seem to have a corollary in real life.
 

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Someone attacks me with a knife (or anything else); I’ll do my best to end the threat.

In my experience, there’s no time for what ifs, multiple choice, or time to take a deep breath and “get ready.”
Rick, I understand exactly what you are saying. I feel that it should be qualified, shark1007 point not withstanding as it is a good point, that in our self defense training classes we are developing techniques based on a "what-if' mindset. My favorite instructor, Brownie, brings to the table his experience, which we, as a class, treat with a "What-if" component.

I would expect that if, or when, it is real, one uses every resource to end the threat. In my case it is with a complete lack of regard to the outcome which is my personally developed perspective.

[just hoping to clarify]
 

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I will gladly retreat if I can do so safely in order to avoid using deadly force. I would even refrain from shooting someone who has injured me with an edged weapon if I felt that my attacker no longer represents an ongoing threat and I'm not in danger of bleeding to death. But I'm not going to assume that I'll only be slightly injured; I once drew down on a guy that came at me with a fork. Sure, a fork is not exactly the most imposing weapon one can wield...but would you want one jammed into your eye socket?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hypothetically, of course if you had ever seen the light go out in a person’s eyes up close. If you contemplated whether their spirit just drifted away. If you realized that when you got older and more mellow that the image of that would replay as you try to stay asleep, you would take ten stitches.

I think Edgehill and Beerhunter are correct. In the most likely knife attack it’s going to come down to hand to hand avoidance. Your motivation was good for the scenario but, respectfully, doesn’t seem to have a corollary in real life.
Literally everyone here has missed the entire point of my original post.
Frankly, I'm disappointed about that as I truly thought we had a brighter bunch of folks here -- or, maybe I just did too poor of a job explaining it.

I'll withdraw the scenario (which was NEVER even remotely intended to be anything like "real life"), and just let this thread drift wherever it pleases.

But for those now scratching their heads wondering "WTF?, Did I miss something?...."
The original point was to lay out a scenario (for discussion purposes only) to probe just how far people on the left are willing to put up with social injustices (like ANTIFA, looting, assault, etc...)
When it's the "other guy", it's one set of rhetoric / outcomes. But when it's personal (i.e., a scar), do people change their minds?
Or are that still that dense?

But like I said - I'm done here.
If it's too much trouble to explain it, I guess it wasn't worth talking about it in the first place.
So, my apologies. :)
 

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Rick, I understand exactly what you are saying. I feel that it should be qualified, shark1007 point not withstanding as it is a good point, that in our self defense training classes we are developing techniques based on a "what-if' mindset. My favorite instructor, Brownie, brings to the table his experience, which we, as a class, treat with a "What-if" component.

I would expect that if, or when, it is real, one uses every resource to end the threat. In my case it is with a complete lack of regard to the outcome which is my personally developed perspective.

[just hoping to clarify]
Hey Fred!
I, along with several others here, in addition to Beerhunter and Andy, participated in the FoF training. Some of us were able to get plenty of rounds on target during the Tueller and other movement/moving target drills in the live-fire stages of the training. We were also trained to elude a real adversary barehanded, and create the distance necessary to respond, during the FoF afternoons. Same with multiple attackers, my wife being held hostage by Brownie, and quite a bit more.

You missed a good one!
 

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Literally everyone here has missed the entire point of my original post.
Frankly, I'm disappointed about that as I truly thought we had a brighter bunch of folks here -- or, maybe I just did too poor of a job explaining it.

I'll withdraw the scenario (which was NEVER even remotely intended to be anything like "real life"), and just let this thread drift wherever it pleases.

But for those now scratching their heads wondering "WTF?, Did I miss something?...."
The original point was to lay out a scenario (for discussion purposes only) to probe just how far people on the left are willing to put up with social injustices (like ANTIFA, looting, assault, etc...)
When it's the "other guy", it's one set of rhetoric / outcomes. But when it's personal (i.e., a scar), do people change their minds?
Or are that still that dense?

But like I said - I'm done here.
If it's too much trouble to explain it, I guess it wasn't worth talking about it in the first place.
So, my apologies. :)
I thought that I answered your original question in my first post; #8.
 
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