[JoeSixPack(ing)]

Is ammo production in some kind of jeopardy? I'm looking for a reason behind the obvious price gouging that is going at my ALL of my local gun shops and retailers. I understand supply side economics (a little) and supply and demand controls market forces...but this is CRAZY! Are we being gouged? This is starting to remind me of gas, generators, and bottled water here in Florida when the Hurricanes are coming.

I looked at counter help after he gave me a price on simple everyday .38 specials and I was shocked. I asked him why they were charging so much and his reply was "because we can get it". The whole thing smells of nothing but greed.

The sad part is my 15 year old son has become interested in the gun sport in the last couple of years. He has built himself a nice buba SKS, a Ruger 10/22 and he loves to shoot the .357. We gave him a family membership for the local range for Christmas but now find ourselves not able to really afford to go that much. The very gun range that we have the membership at is making it impossible to enjoy the facilities due to their ammo prices. Am I missing something? It's this just the latest casualty of Obama's war on guns? Am I paranoid or could part of the master plan be to stamp out gun enthusiasts at the youth level?

Scary times for sure. NoBama.

 

[steve66]

The ammo prices are "our" own fault. With all the hype and fear from Obama, people are hoarding. Ammo manufacturers don't want to build new factories for a rush that may only last 1-2 years. It would take a lot more time for the factory to pay off. So the supply isn't going to increase, in particular for rounds that are only used by civilians (.380 for example). With 9mm and .40 there is a bit more room due steady high demand from LE and military.

Meanwhile Obama is doing nothing against guns and is just laughing and doing the happy dance. All that money spent on ammo won't go to any of his oponents election funds. If supplies go up a bit, he just has Pellosi shout "assault rifle" into a random microphone and all of us stop paying attention and get back into line at the closest Walmart ammo counter.

+1. Supply and demand. Eventually everything will straighten out...opcorn Hopefully soon

 

[BobL]

I read some places online doing a fairly balanced look at the ammo shortage. It's one of those situations where a bunch of things converge at the same time.

First off, there's a big military demand for the ammo they use, both practice and "for real". Then there's a surge in towns putting together SWAT teams, and the ammo they use. Metal costs are up compared to, say, 5 years ago, due to the demand for metals out of China. Finally, add in the demand from consumers who are admittedly nervous. I know the mildest-mannered little soccer moms talking about getting guns and CC permits, just in case the SHTF.

Don't forget that in addition to the ammo shortage, many guns are out of stock and the demand for CC permits is very high. Go to some online dealers and look at how many different models of guns are out of stock. Just for grins, while writing this, I went to http://www.impactguns.com/store/ and looked to see how many Glocks were available in stock. Maybe one gun out of 20 of any model I looked at was in stock.

Supposedly, this has been building for over a year. The election combined with the economy has a lot of people concerned they will have to defend their homes. Heck, all you have to do is watch the news to get nervous about a dozen things. Foreign hackers putting bots in place to crash our power grid? The Fed creating money out of thin air to head off total collapse - and making collapse more likely by doing that? The Missouri highway patrol putting out a domestic terrorist alert that basically says I'm a domestic terrorist for saying what I just said?



BobL

 

[jimmills]

Then the Missouri highway patrol needs to be disbanded. Any time a law enforcement agency wants to pretend that the average law abiding citizen is a criminal, they have become a Fascist organization that has no place in a free country.

Hmmmm, maybe I should open my eyes and look around me a bit. There isn't all that much freedom left anymore.

No doubt, the Missouri highway patrol will read this and add me to their list. They may even send a hit man after me in order to repress my freedom of speech by making me push up wild onions from beneath the onions.:zip :rifle

Jim

 

[BobL]

Have a look at the report: http://www.scribd.com/doc/13290698/The-Modern-Militia-MovementMissouri-MIAC-Strategic-Report-20Feb09-


The story I heard was that although this was supposed to be LEO confidential, the actual guys it was sent to realized how wrong it was and leaked it (and thank you to them, whoever they are). Ron Paul talked about it, Glenn Beck talked about it, it was pretty widely reported.

Signs of being a domestic terrorist include:
Ron Paul bumper stickers
Libertarian bumper stickers
Christian identification
Anti-IRS ideologies
Saying that the Federal Reserve policies may lead to the collapse of the economy.

Interestingly, there is no mention of the actual, demonstrable terrorist groups like the Environmental Liberation Front, who have blown up car lots, and killed people. Nor is there mention of Islamic terrorism. So left wing terrorists like ELF are apparently not a threat. Only libertarian/conservative ideas apparently make you dangerous.

Once this started getting widely reported, they retracted the study. Does that make you feel better? Me, neither.



BobL

 

[Prometheus]

I asked him why they were charging so much and his reply was "because we can get it". The whole thing smells of nothing but greed.

This is how a true freemarket economy works. As long as demand is up, prices will be high. If someone offered you $500,000 for your house, would you say, "No, that would be greedy. Just give me $250,000, and we'll call it even"? Of course you wouldn't. The seller charges only what the buyer is willing to pay; no more, no less.

I once thought like that, too, being angry at "greedy" companies for taking advantage of consumers in need. Then I picked up a copy of Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged". Reading it opened my eyes to a whole new way of looking at capitalism. And it scared the hell out of me over what's going on with the economy and government now.

 

[Mac45]

To answer the origiinal question of whether retailers are gouging comsumers; yes and no. Increased demand without and increase in supply causes an increase in the price of any commodity, including ammunition. So if you are paying 15-20% more now than you did last August, that is probably to be expected. If the price has increased by 50% or more, then someone in the supply chain is making a windfall profit.

The level of ammunition manufacturing has not decreased, in fact it has increased a bit. And; as many new firearms owners and many who already own firearms are stocking up, rather than shooting up, their ammo; the availability of ammunition will gradually increase and the prices should come down a little bit. Of course, this could all change if increased government regulation does come to pass.

 

[henryher]

I just posted on a new Kahr CW9 I got as a present and now have no ammunition for. What gets me is, what is stocking up on ammo going to do for those people and what is it they are fearing? If they believe that ammo is going to be outlawed what makes them think the ammo they have is going to be grandfathered in? If they fear that guns will be outlawed then why buy ammo for a gun you can't buy or shoot? That is like going out to stock on bread because toasters will be discontinued. Well, I have bread but I still can't make toast.

 

[Wraith]

I just posted on a new Kahr CW9 I got as a present and now have no ammunition for. What gets me is, what is stocking up on ammo going to do for those people and what is it they are fearing? If they believe that ammo is going to be outlawed what makes them think the ammo they have is going to be grandfathered in? If they fear that guns will be outlawed then why buy ammo for a gun you can't buy or shoot? That is like going out to stock on bread because toasters will be discontinued. Well, I have bread but I still can't make toast.

I'm not sure that I understand your post, henryher.

People buy (and stockpile) ammo for the guns that they have at the moment. They don't look ahead to guns and ammo they MIGHT want in the future. They look to the 'now'. And the current Administration. While they haven't gone after guns yet, they will.

Personally, I can't find .45 Auto JHP anywhere in this town. But buying a few boxes, here and there, I'm up towards 10,000 rds. of 7.62 x 39.

I'm going to a gun show tomorrow, and I'm going to buy up ALL the .45 JHP that I can lay my hands on. Supply and Demand I'm fine with.

Cause and Effect is what this is all about.

-Wraith

 

[steve66]

I'm not sure that I understand your post, henryher.

People buy (and stockpile) ammo for the guns that they have at the moment. They don't look ahead to guns and ammo they MIGHT want in the future....

-Wraith

Not entirely true. I am in the process of building my AR 15 and I buy as much .223 in bulk as I can. I plan on buying 1000 rds today at the gun show if I can find it. As you can imagine these parts are sold out all over the place.

Another point is you can get your money back if you decide to sell it on online because the demand is so high.

 

[J T]

I've also bought a couple thousand rounds of .223 although I don't yet have an AR in that caliber.

 

[DoralJoe]

I have been to 4 Wal Marts here in Miami and there is no handgun ammo 4 sale... they R sold out, their shipments dry out in about 4 hours... most Wally's don't implement a 4 or 5 box max. so the first few shoppers can buy all they want and we have to wait 2 weeks 4 the next truck to bring more...

 

[Wraith]

I have been to 4 Wal Marts here in Miami and there is no handgun ammo 4 sale... they R sold out, their shipments dry out in about 4 hours... most Wally's don't implement a 4 or 5 box max. so the first few shoppers can buy all they want and we have to wait 2 weeks 4 the next truck to bring more...

Yes, I have read above this post and will concur. All I was saying is that people, when they stockpile ammo, are "normally" buying for the weapons that they have in their possession. But you have a valid point, steve66.

So I went to the Gun-Show on Saturday. They had NO .45 Auto JHP. Not at all. They had NO 7.62 x 39. (Except for one guy that had a box of 20 'Wolf', that she was trying to sell for $14.99)

Nope, ain't playing that game.

On the way home I stopped at a local 'Sports Store'. They had two boxes of Remington .45 Auto, JHP, 185 gr. (marked down mind you) to $49.99 a box. I cried, and then bought both boxes.

I could get Winchester at Wal-Mart for $23 for a box of 50 three months ago. And my gun LOVES Winchester. But as DoralJoe said, they get in their shipments every Tuesday at 8pm. And there are people standing in line. (Unfortunately at that time, I'm at work.) :thumbsdwn

-Wraith