[dcook22]

Hi all,

I recently watched a video interview with Massad Ayoob. This thing was obviously from the early 90's. However, he seems to be a big proponent of a pistol being the best home defense weapon and NOT a shotgun. His main points were:

1. Penetration. A 9mm. .40, or .45 caliber hollow point bullet is more likely to hit the intruder and stay in the intruder's body than a slug from a 12 gauge. Thus the bullet is MUCH less likely to penetrate the walls and accidentaly harm/kill a sleeping family member in their bed.

2. Control. The single bullet is easier to control in that you don't have to worry about the spread pattern rendering your shotgun blast less effective at range or at an angle to the intruder.

3. 2nd hand freedom. The pistol allows your free hand to manipulate a flashlight or hold a cellphone or help you maintain your balance.

4. If the intruder gets close to you, it is much easier to disarm a person holding a shotgun than a person holding a pistol.

I'm still new to gun ownership, so I'm interested in your thoughts.

Dan

 

[Rvrctyrngr]

Depends on the situation.

In Mas' interview, he's more focused on moving about with the firearm and concerns about over-penetration in a fluid environment.
Advantage: Pistol

In a defensive scenario when you're in your bedroom and the zombies come a callin', Ensconced Defender tactics should rule the night. Situations vary, but I could light off a Barrett .50 in my bedroom with my home construction and angle of fire and not worry about over-penetration, and the zombies ain't getting anywhere near me to attempt to disarm me.
Advantage: Shotgun/Rifle.

Different tools for different jobs.

 

[Ghost]

I definitely agree w/ Rvrctyrngr. My home defense rule is to retreat to the bedroom where the 12 gauge is, to call 911, and to stay put until help arrives.

The bedroom is the safe room. Thats where the cell phone is charged at night, and the guns are stored.

No house clearing for me!

 

[AirForceShooter]

a slug for home defense?

Moving around??

At 10 feet how much spread are you going to get.

Yeah, I have my gun at the ready and I'm making a phone call??

AFS

 

[Steve48]

Shotgun and #1 buck for me. Pistol for backup.

 

[T.S.]

Indeed my primary home defense firearm is my .45acp, but if I have time to get my shotgun, then it will become my primary weapon.

1. Penetration. A 9mm. .40, or .45 caliber hollow point bullet is more likely to hit the intruder and stay in the intruder's body than a slug from a 12 gauge. Thus the bullet is MUCH less likely to penetrate the walls and accidentaly harm/kill a sleeping family member in their bed.

IMHO, and with all due respect to Mr. Ayoob, my Remington 1100 has an extended magazine with 6 rounds of 00 buck and the last two rounds are slug. The last 2 slugs are there in case the first 6 00's don't do the job.

If I have an intruder kick in my front door, slider, or window, I am much more likely to hit him with a spread of 00 buck than I am with my .45acp.

2. Control. The single bullet is easier to control in that you don't have to worry about the spread pattern rendering your shotgun blast less effective at range or at an angle to the intruder.

In the middle of the night, with an intruder in the house, this is the last thing that I am going to be worried about.

If my first "spread pattern" doesn't do the job, I have 5 more behind it to finish the job.

3. 2nd hand freedom. The pistol allows your free hand to manipulate a flashlight or hold a cellphone or help you maintain your balance.

This is the best of the arguements provided. But, I will be holding the shotgun, while MrsTampaSsgt will have one hand on her Taurus, and the other hand will be depressig the number "9" on the phone which is the 911 speed dial number.

4. If the intruder gets close to you, it is much easier to disarm a person holding a shotgun than a person holding a pistol.

If he gets that close to me, then either he will be dead on the floor, or I will be, in which case the Mrs. will get him with her Taurus.

Then she can collect my insurance money, which she will probably use to get her a bronze suntanned hunk of a pool boy, who wears a teeny-weeny little speedo, and answers to the name of " Julio ". :dancingbanana

 

[dcook22]

All very interesting replies. That's why I love this forum.

I have one concern that it seems none of you have mentioned, and it's probably because you have an empty nest.

In my apartment, the front door and sliding glass door of the patio both enter in on the living quarters (front door into dining area and glass doors into living room). We don't have a house, we live on the ground floor of a three floor condo complex.If you come in the fron door, my bedroom (with my wife and our 6-month old's crib) is to your left. However, my 2 year old has his own room across the living area from my room. I have to walk through the living room/dining area to get to my son's room. So if I were to barricade myself in my room, I'd essentially be leaving my two year old son, Charlie, on the other side of the apartment alone and scared. That's simply not an option. Yes, my wife would stay in our room and be dialing 911 (I might be able to convince her to touch a gun in the event of a home invasion but it's iffy), but I'd be venturing out to put some holes in the bad guys.

Not only that, but if I stand in the doorway separating my side of the apartment from the living/dining area and fire a shot straight ahead, the bullet would be flying straight into my son's room and probably through the Lightning McQueen fathead on his wall.

With a home setup like this and the extra family members to be concerned about, I think it makes sense for me to follow Mr. Ayoob's advice. I simply couldn't risk all that buckshot flying 40 feet toward my son's open bedroom door. I think I'd be best served with a Crimson Trace grip and some hollow-points.

What do you guys think? I'm by no means an expert.

Dan

 

[Steve48]

You make valid points, and so does Mr. Ayoob. But how sure are you of being able to hit your target reliably with a pistol when you've been awakened in the middle of the night? How about with a shotgun?

 

[T.S.]

With a home setup like this and the extra family members to be concerned about, I think it makes sense for me to follow Mr. Ayoob's advice. I simply couldn't risk all that buckshot flying 40 feet toward my son's open bedroom door. I think I'd be best served with a Crimson Trace grip and some hollow-points.

The determining factor here is this ...

Just how good of a shot are you with your handgun?

It appears either way, shotgun or handgun, the bad guy is going to be between you and your son's bedroom. With your son in the background this places you in a disadvantage.

For this reason, you may want to go with this type of ammo.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/frangible.htm

Frangible Ammunition

Frangible, or “soft,” rounds are designed to break apart when they hit walls or other hard surfaces to prevent ricochets during close-quarters combat. Frangible ammunition represents the first viable revolutionary change to firearms science in the past 100 years. Frangible ammunition is a relatively recent development in bullets, presenting a departure from the standard projectiles in use for both range shooting and personal protection. With the advent of modern hostage rescue tactics in the 1970s and 1980s, the military and police agencies began to look for ways to minimize overpenetration risks. One widely-accepted solution was the frangible round, also known as the AET (Advanced Energy Transfer) round.

http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/glaser/glaser.htm

For over 30 years, Glaser Safety Slug has been the perfect choice for use in populated, urban areas. Glaser's composite design uses a special thin-wall jacket, and precision compressed lead shot core with a soft polymer tip. This construction provides optimum balance between penetration and fragmentation. These round nose profile guarantees feeding reliability. Stopping power is maximized by the complete dispersal of the bullet energy into the intended target with immediate shock and trauma.
This rapid fragmentation delivers the energy to a large area. Reduced recoil allows a fast recovery for follow up shots if necessary. This makes Glaser the best choice for defensive situations.
Glaser Blue penetrates five to seven inches in International Ballistic Wound Association protocol testing, while silver penetrates eight to ten inches in the IWBA testing protocol.

Blue is suggested for warmer climates where apparel is lighter making penetration easier.

 

[NkmG19]

dcook22

I have the same situation at home. My boys room is clear across the other side of the house and I'm going to go get them if my alarm goes off. I have told them to stay in their room and get under the bed if they hear the alarm go off. My lady will be dialing 911 and have the Glock26 ready to shoot anyone coming into the bedroom without identifying themselves. The advantage I have is that I know the layout of the house and the intruder does not. I've also set up night lights throughout so no one can hide in the shadows while the entrance to my bedroom is dark. It's going to be really scary but i have to get the boys.

I would feel more comfortable moving with the Glock than a shotgun.

 

[deadeyedick]

I think that for most homeowners, the shotgun is not necessarily the ideal weapon to take along when investigating a bump in the night. As was pointed out previously, the handgun leaves you a free hand to open doors, hit light switches, etc. In the home defense scenario, I believe the shotgun (or rifle, for that matter) is best suited for use in a defensive posture, i.e., when hunkered down covering the entrance to your 'safe room', waiting for the cavalry to arrive.

 

[airhead]

It had been a long time since I did any house-to-house/room-to-room training. Leading with a shotgun barrel or rifle barrel before you enter the room is a good way to get it taken away from you. Pistol / sbr if you are going bg hunting.

I too have the rest of my family across the house in their bedrooms (master is on the other end of the house). So I'm coming out of my bedroom to get to theirs. BRIGHT tac light and me, moving slowly.

Glazers are good in that they will not over penetrate if they work right. I've never shot any to prove them to myself.

 

[SGB]

My .02 ............

Comes down to training. The 12ga riot gun is the better stopper and a handgun is easier to utilize. Training is the key.

 

[T.S.]

One thing I have done in my home is to place those photocell nightlights ( little christmas tree bulb types ) throughout the inside of my home.

When it gets dark, these light up and softly illuminate the area of my front door entranceway, and the great room area that all of the other rooms connect off of. Then, when the morning comes, they shut themselves off.

If I hear a "bump" in the middle of the night, I am not going to need a flashlight if/when I go out to investigate.

I have an angled hallway that leads to the doorway to the master bedroom. I have placed one of these nightlights in the hallway in such a manner that it illuminates the hallway, but does not affect the lighting inside the master bedroom.

This does two things.

One, it illuminates the hallway outside of the door which makes anyone standing there or entering the bedroom a very nice silhouette target.

Secondly, it totally messes up the night vision of the person coming into the master bedroom area. When you are out in the hallway, looking into the master bedroom, all you see is total darkness.

 

[brownie]

TampaSsgt,

I've got 5 of those strategically located in the house as well. No need for a flashlight to "see" what's going on.:thumsup

We're also on the dark in the bedroom and everything else is backlit and silhouetted accordingly.

Brownie

 

[Mac45]

A few small points and then I'll give you my recommendation.

First, forget about over-penetration with a shotgun at room distances. A load of #6 shot will take out any unarmored intruder that you may encounter indoors and usually the charge will be stopped by two sheets of drywall.

Second, your primary objective in home defense is to eliminate the threat. If you can get an intruder to leave without shooting him, so much the better.

Third, given the current use of drywall in homes, even a .22 is going to go through two sheets without stopping. Pistol ammo has serious penetration problems in a dwelling.

So. My choice for home defense is:

First, whatever is at hand.

Second, a shotgun with #6 field loads with a .45 back up.

Third, Make a lot of noise. Rack that shotgun and tell the intruder to leave or he's dogfood. The distinctive sound of a slide action shotgun is usually enough to convince a burglar to pay a visit to someone else's house. And you don't have to clean up the mess.

Just a thought.

 

[XD-Man]

My wife doesn't like the dark, and so we have night lights all over the house. No part of our home is ever completely dark. And I now have a set of Crimson Trace grips for my XD-40, so anyone entering my house uninvited will really notice that little red dot on his forehead.

 

[hobbystock98]

i would like some thoughts on this i keep my judge as my gun for investigating things bumping in the night

it will chamber both .410 shells .45 lc i currently keep 3 .45 and 2 410 #4 shells alternating 410 45 410 45 45. the 45s are winchester silver tips. do you think its enough

 

[Steve48]

Should be. I wouldn't want to be the one trying to prove that it wasn't .

 

[deadeyedick]

i would like some thoughts on this i keep my judge as my gun for investigating things bumping in the night

it will chamber both .410 shells .45 lc i currently keep 3 .45 and 2 410 #4 shells alternating 410 45 410 45 45. the 45s are winchester silver tips. do you think its enough

You might want to take a look at this before deciding to rely on any .410 load for self defense...

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

There are a fair number of decent SD loads in .45 LC that would make me want to stick to that caliber in a Taurus Judge.