Florida Concealed Carry banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello all. I'm new to the forum but not to firearms and have been a Florida CC licensee for 20 years.

I'm looking for clarification and assurance that having a handgun, holstered for quick access (not on my person... but in the car) "in plain sight" and I'm stopped by state or local LEO for a traffic violation (or, whatever) that I'm not in violation of any state law.

I'm 98% certain that I'm OK but the 2% uncertainty is nagging at my very old brain. :) Can someone comment?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,566 Posts
Pretty sure it's NOT okay. It has to me concealed even in the car.

Others will be along soon to quote the exact law.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,498 Posts
Pay attention to the 2%.

I'm too busy at the moment to find the citation. But, I believe the only guns you can have in "plain sight" are LONG GUNS.

If you have a handgun in plain sight, it does not follow any of the laws. If you have a CCW, it must be CONCEALED (even in your car.... except, theoretically, if you're going fishing or camping or to the range). Personally.... even then... I wouldn't.

If it's not concealed, then it's open carry, effectively. Secondly, it doesn't follow the "securely encased" law, which applies mainly when you are not licensed to carry, but I think would apply here, since it's not being carried concealed.

If I'm wrong, someone will be along shortly to correct me. :grin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,329 Posts
Derrick is right. There are folks here who know the applicable statutes well who will probably be along to help there.

Personally, in my own opinion, I wouldn’t have it in plain sight regardless of law. That’s just not a can of worms I’d prefer to open. Even if legal (I don’t believe it is), there’s a potential to find yourself in an uncomfortable position should an officer see it.

There are plenty of ways to have your firearm accessible without it being visible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,594 Posts
I'd recommend you ditch the term "in plain sight" which FL law doesn't really use and check in 790.001 for the definitions of "readily accessible for immediate use" and "securely encased" which can come into play when it comes to guns in automobiles.

You are in uncharted waters trying to do what you want with a firearm in a vehicle. By that I mean there haven't been court cases specifically on that one point, and yours could well be that first one if you are willing to take that risk.

The guidance that the law does provided is in the case of an unlicensed person (18 or older and otherwise legal) carrying a handgun inside a vehicle. It's legal so long as it's securely encased, and even that definition is a shaky one with plenty of examples that could go either way.

Personally, ALL state firearms laws aside, I would not expect it EVER to be the case where I would be pulled over by LE for something (traffic stop), the officer approaches my vehicle and sees a handgun within my immediate reach, and nothing is made of it. It would be like a handgun laying up on the dashboard in front of me... I would expect either the gun or me is going to be exiting the vehicle tout-suite before any discussion of my burned out tail light takes place. Wouldn't YOU do that if you were in the cop's shoes?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,792 Posts
IANAL!

Let me begin with a quote that I hate: "Just because you can do something does not mean you should."

This is what the statute 790.25 says;


(3) LAWFUL USES.—The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

This is the situation you stated in your OP;

(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person’s manual possession;

790.001(17) defines securely encases as follows:


(17) “Securely encased” means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

And, we can see from the statute that the provisions of 790.053 (the statute prohibiting open carry) do not apply in some situations:

790.053 Open carrying of weapons.–
(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device.

So I would argue that you are perfectly within the law to have your gun snapped in a holster in your vesicle as you described without violating 790.053.

BUT since you are a licencee, it sure would be easier to throw a to towel over it and avoid the drama.


790.25
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.25.html


790.001
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.001.html

790.053
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.053.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Hello all. I'm new to the forum but not to firearms and have been a Florida CC licensee for 20 years.

I'm looking for clarification and assurance that having a handgun, holstered for quick access (not on my person... but in the car) "in plain sight" and I'm stopped by state or local LEO for a traffic violation (or, whatever) that I'm not in violation of any state law.

I'm 98% certain that I'm OK but the 2% uncertainty is nagging at my very old brain. :) Can someone comment?
Your hand gun must be concealed, although it may be readily accessible.
FL 790.25(5)

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,792 Posts
Your hand gun must be concealed, although it may be readily accessible.
FL 790.25(5)

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
Please see 790.25(3)(l)

Just one of the enumerated instances that no licensee is needed per 790.06 and open carry is allowed notwithstanding 790.053.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,219 Posts
790.001(17) defines securely encases as follows:

(17) “Securely encased” means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

I would say that this outlines the extent as to what the requirements are to travel with you handgun inside your vehicle in a very definitive manner. "Snapped in a holster" probably would be the definition most likely to cause problems with a CC license holder. Most of us I would think either carry in a no snap kydex or leather holster on our person and that would not be IAW the law to just have on the seat or in the console.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,087 Posts
Hello all. I'm new to the forum but not to firearms and have been a Florida CC licensee for 20 years.

I'm looking for clarification and assurance that having a handgun, holstered for quick access (not on my person... but in the car) "in plain sight" and I'm stopped by state or local LEO for a traffic violation (or, whatever) that I'm not in violation of any state law.

I'm 98% certain that I'm OK but the 2% uncertainty is nagging at my very old brain. :) Can someone comment?
Welcome to FCC from Palm Beach County, Big Bore 44! :wave

TitleIIToyLover already answered your question.

Since you've now made you first post to FCC without an introduction, please take the time to post you're own Introduction to FCC so the members will get to know you. You can do that by going to the Introduce Yourself section of The Front Office and start your very own introduction thread. Then you'll find that lots of other FCC members will know to chime in to properly welcome you to the forum, and will be more responsive in answering questions!

In case you weren't aware, you can stay current on pertinent Florida Statutes regarding use of force and firearms law by going right to the source using these links for Chapter 776 - Justifiable Use of Force and Chapter 790 - Weapons and Firearms. I'd also like to suggest you obtain your own copy of FLORIDA FIREARMS Law, Use & Ownership by Jon Gutmacher!

Finally, I would like to recommend you consider joining Florida Carry and join the effort to protect the rights of Floridians to keep and bear arms!

Again, welcome to FCC! :grin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,792 Posts
790.001(17) defines securely encases as follows:

(17) “Securely encased” means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

I would say that this outlines the extent as to what the requirements are to travel with you handgun inside your vehicle in a very definitive manner. "Snapped in a holster" probably would be the definition most likely to cause problems with a CC license holder. Most of us I would think either carry in a no snap kydex or leather holster on our person and that would not be IAW the law to just have on the seat or in the console.
SCOTUS would probably need to opine as to the the definition of "snap."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Hey! Wow! You guys rock! Great comments in just two hours. Great thanks to each one of you who replied. I genuinely appreciate each comment. (And, special thank you to, TitleIIToyLover, for taking the time to reference, print and offer interpretation of the relevant statutes.)

As "slick" and convenient my new little holster set-up is, I'm going to abandon it. (I like the suggestion of covering it with a towel but this holster does not have a "snap" so I'm not willing to roll the dice on that either. This is my "car-gun". I'll continue to keep it in the center consul with the lid snapped closed. Moreover, I'll be more disciplined about "never-leave-home-without-it" on a carry pistol.

Thanks again guys for all your comments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
935 Posts
Hey! Wow! You guys rock! Great comments in just two hours. Great thanks to each one of you who replied. I genuinely appreciate each comment. (And, special thank you to, TitleIIToyLover, for taking the time to reference, print and offer interpretation of the relevant statutes.)

As "slick" and convenient my new little holster set-up is, I'm going to abandon it. (I like the suggestion of covering it with a towel but this holster does not have a "snap" so I'm not willing to roll the dice on that either. This is my "car-gun". I'll continue to keep it in the center consul with the lid snapped closed. Moreover, I'll be more disciplined about "never-leave-home-without-it" on a carry pistol.

Thanks again guys for all your comments.
Am I missing something? Didn't you state in the first post that you are a CCW holder for 20 years? If so you are allowed to have your gun "on or about your person" and not subject to the requirements of "securely encased or not available for immediate use".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,607 Posts
Am I missing something? Didn't you state in the first post that you are a CCW holder for 20 years? If so you are allowed to have your gun "on or about your person" and not subject to the requirements of "securely encased or not available for immediate use".
As you know, when driving sometimes having your gun on your person doesn't offer the fastest possible access to the gun if you need it. There are all sorts of great holster mounts and magnet gizmos that would probably provide a much faster presentation while seated in a vehicle with a seatbelt on, but TIITL was right on the money with his statutory citations.

You can go the "securely encased but plainly visible" route, and in theory be complying with the black letter of the law, but as pointed out by others most holsters these days may not pass muster to be considered "snapped in a holster". If it's a retention holster with a bale on it that must be released in order to draw the holster, that might be looked upon as "snapped in" by the court, but they might also be a literal ass and say "that holster has no snap". Something like a Serpa, or an ALS, or a plain Kydex holster with no retention mechanism other than friction, would quite likely not be seen as "snapped in".

It is a shame that 790.053 still exists and we have to play all of these damn games that would just go away if open carry were legal. The general prohibition on open carry just makes a mess out of the whole carry situation.

Regarding having the gun laying on the passenger seat covered by a towel or t-shirt or whatever, perfectly legal if you have a CWFL, but think about where your gun is going to end up if you are deliberately hit from behind as a setup for an attack. Your gun is going to end up in the passenger foot well, out of reach, when you'd really rather it was someplace more convenient.

Anyway, great discussion and welcome to the forum BB44.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,215 Posts
securely encased in a box with a lid could be a tupperware container...and clearly visible...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,999 Posts
I carry left handed. Drawing while driving would be an interesting exercise. Truck console or under left leg for me
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,876 Posts
securely encased in a box with a lid could be a tupperware container...and clearly visible...
Sure is! So, we have two versions as an example here—one actually in a snapped holster, one in a clear plastic container with a lid—both leaving the gun in plain sight, both legal. Like that meatball sub in a public restroom stall. :grin





-on Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,329 Posts
Regarding having the gun laying on the passenger seat covered by a towel or t-shirt or whatever, perfectly legal if you have a CWFL, but think about where your gun is going to end up if you are deliberately hit from behind as a setup for an attack. Your gun is going to end up in the passenger foot well, out of reach, when you'd really rather it was someplace more convenient.

Anyway, great discussion and welcome to the forum BB44.
Agreed with your whole post. However I want to reinforce the above....

I would not have my firearm unsecured in the car. Period.

One of the insurance industry hats I wear is as an adjuster. In any accident, unsecured items can become their own projectiles injuring you and/or your passengers. Particularly something with the mass of a loaded firearm. Them, as you point out, should you need it following a collision, where is it?

I’ve worked more than a few accidents where one party goes after the other full on road rage style following a collision. If your firearm has bounced around in your car like dice in a cup, where did it end up?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,498 Posts
Agreed with your whole post. However I want to reinforce the above....

I would not have my firearm unsecured in the car. Period.

One of the insurance industry hats I wear is as an adjuster. In any accident, unsecured items can become their own projectiles injuring you and/or your passengers. Particularly something with the mass of a loaded firearm.
Navy pilots call it "cockpit FOD." :)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,087 Posts
Navy pilots call it "cockpit FOD." :)
And potentially jamming the flight controls. In a tactical jet, it could even result in an unintentional ejection when that foreign object messes with the ejection mechanism. Had to make a precautionary landing once when a piece of equipment from the guy in the other seat got loose during hard maneuvering and ended up behind the headrest and potentially fouling the ejection seat.
 
1 - 20 of 50 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top