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Discussion Starter #201
Just in case you don't have enough things to obsess over and be anal retentive about, let me introduce you to a website called Time.is - exact time, any time zone. It serves a similar purpose as the http://nist.time.gov website, but I suggested to the author of time.is that he add the ability to do tenths of a second on his site for those of us that are freaks about precise watch synchronization.

To enable tenths on time.is:
  1. Click the hamburger icon (3 horizontal lines) in the upper right corner
  2. Choose Customize
  3. Click the checkbox for "Turn seconds, tenths and milliseconds on/off by clicking the right side of the clock"
  4. Click "Back to the Front Page"
  5. Click in a blank space to the right of the time display to switch between whole seconds, tenths, and thousandths.
When time.is first loads it's going to stutter a bit as the ads load. On my Android phone I have an ad blocker that prevents this, but on my PC even AdBlock doesn't prevent the initial stutter. It stabilizes after about 15 seconds.

Most of your watches appear to be quartz so they should hold to around 15 seconds a month if they aren't radio-sync. If they are radio-sync and you get a good sync each night then they'll probably never be off by more than a half a second.

Most of my watches are mechanical which means I check the sync each day when I pick which watch I'm going to wear. If it's a Spring Drive it'll gain around 18 hundredths of a second a day. If it's a lower end mechanical it'll probably gain around 5 to 10 seconds in a day. Higher end mechanicals tend to be around 1 or 2 seconds a day.

I also have a couple "HAQ" (High Accuracy Quartz) watches that only gain about 5 seconds a year, about 1.4 hundredths of a second per day, with no external syncing. That's a pretty incredible feat of engineering in my book - worthy of wearing even though it's quartz (I generally eschew quartz, with limited exceptions).

I'm such a time-nerd that I even have a live-data GPS clock on top of my dresser with the watch box, which displays tenths of a second and should never deviate from atomic clock time by more than one ten-thousandth of a second. In reality you might not even say it's a clock because it doesn't actually keep the time - it displays the time live from the GPS signals in real time. So if it loses GPS lock it won't display the time. If it's showing the time, it's definitely correct. This is different than the radio sync clocks which only usually sync the time once in the early morning hours and then use their own internal timekeeping for the next 24 hours until the next sync. Radio sync clocks with typical quartz timekeeping will gain or lose around a half a second during the course of the 24 hours that elapse between syncs.

Now a half second may not seem like much, but if you're a time lord and checking the accuracy of a very expensive timepiece that is supposed to be very accurate, your clock being off by a half second could lead you to believe that there is something REALLY wrong with your watch when there isn't. Yeah, some of us are that nuts about this stuff. But you might have deduced that obsessiveness when I said my Spring Drive gains "about 18 hundredths of a second a day". In fact the actual measurement was 0.187 seconds per day - and if you had a half-second error in your reference time source it would really screw up your testing unless you were testing over a long enough period to make that half-second irrelevant.

I have compared the time.is time against live GPS time and find that it is very consistent. I frequently use time.is for doing a quick rough sync of a timepiece, when I don't need it to be flawlessly synchronized (i.e. I'm not doing a timing analysis of the piece).
Wow! It just goes to show that ANY hobby or interest can be taken to the "nth" degree!

Interesting, for sure. But, will I be doing that? Not, yet! LOL!

My only mechanical watches are the Rolex and Breitling... both not working at this time.
 

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Discussion Starter #203
Dude.... you cannot leave four open spots in a watch box. Them da rules!


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LOL! Can I put decoys in there? I guess I could fill two with my Rolex and Breitling for a "photo-op." They're sitting in the safe. But, that still leaves two slots.
 

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You can always photoshop,


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Discussion Starter #205
Most of your watches appear to be quartz so they should hold to around 15 seconds a month if they aren't radio-sync. If they are radio-sync and you get a good sync each night then they'll probably never be off by more than a half a second.
Question for ya, since you are an expert. On some watch groups / forums, there is a claim made that the atomic clock radios are destined to be shut down, and Bluetooth sync (with your phone... some models offering this "connected" feature now) will become the standard.

What say you? Are the atomic clock radio signals going to be shut down, rendering that feature obsolete on "atomic" watches?

Thanks!
 

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Question for ya, since you are an expert. On some watch groups / forums, there is a claim made that the atomic clock radios are destined to be shut down, and Bluetooth sync (with your phone... some models offering this "connected" feature now) will become the standard.

What say you? Are the atomic clock radio signals going to be shut down, rendering that feature obsolete on "atomic" watches?

Thanks!
FWIW:

One of the original 22 ships chronometers that were aboard the HMS Beagle is on display at the British Museum in London.
(The "Beagle" being the famous ship that carried Charles Darwin to the Galapagos Islands, thereby solidifying his theories on the Origin of Species.)
I've seen that chronometer in-person, up close. It is a masterpiece of 19th century ingenuity and technological know-how.
Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship's_chronometer_from_HMS_Beagle#/media/File:British_Museum_Marine_Chronometer.jpg

I've also seen the Bureau of Standards atomic clock out at the Dept of Commerce - NOAA campus in Boulder, CO.
It is sitting on Dr. Holloway's desk, and I think if you bumped his desk hard enough, clocks around the world would all lose a few seconds.
(Though technically, I believe that clock is merely a remote sync to a master clock at the Naval Observatory.)

Anyway, when you compare the Beagle's longitude clock to a modern caesium atomic clock, one conclusion is inescapable:
Time marches on. It is inevitable that today's atomic clocks will eventually become yesterday's sundials.
I would not be surprised to see caesium standard, or GPS-based clocks retired in my lifetime.

But those Casio G-Shock watches will be around forever since they are such a great value and look fantastic. :)
(Even though the HMS Beagle's chronometers were probably more accurate!!)
Ponder that for a while... !! :unsure:
 

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Very interesting discussion this has evolved into! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
 

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Discussion Starter #208
Very interesting discussion this has evolved into! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
I got to try on BH's G-Shock "Mudmaster" on the other day. It's a BEAST! 😲

There's another "beast" that has caught my fancy. Put it on my Amazon "wish list." The G-Shock "Rangeman." Looks pretty cool.

68710
 
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Set the mudmaster for correct elevation when I left on the trip. Got to Durango, it was 80 feet off [ lower ]. Reset to correct elevation, ride to Denver area. Check the elevation it's 20 feet off [ under ].

Reset at brothers house. Ride further up into the mountains at known elevation of 11,300 feet. Mudmaster is 20 feet off [ under ].

Leave brothers house for home with it off that 20 feet. Arrive Durango, it's off 60 feet [ over ]. Reset in Durango, when I get home, it's off by 700 feet [ over ].

Based on the above, if the elevation is set correctly and one climbs or descends that day, mine can be off as much as 60 feet. That may mean a world of difference on a topo map when trying to determine or pinpoint one's exact location based on other variables but elevation on a ridge line could be an important data point. When moving through hundreds of miles of varying elevations mine can be off several hundred feet, but then it's not all that important while motoring as one is unlikely to not know where they are on a topo map as in a wilderness setting.
 

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Question for ya, since you are an expert. On some watch groups / forums, there is a claim made that the atomic clock radios are destined to be shut down, and Bluetooth sync (with your phone... some models offering this "connected" feature now) will become the standard.

What say you? Are the atomic clock radio signals going to be shut down, rendering that feature obsolete on "atomic" watches?

Thanks!
There was a big hubub when NIST was threatening to shut down WWV, WWVB, and WWVH (WWVB being the signal our watches and other so-called "atomic sync clocks" use) due to funding issues. Congress allocated the necessary funds and that calamity has been averted for now.

There have been some pretty cool projects where people have made their own micro WWVB transmitters (private transmitters transmitting a WWVB compliant signal on the WWVB frequency for local consumption) such as this one. These "micro stations" typically receive the time using GPS signals and then compose the WWVB signal and transmit it in the near field (which only goes a few inches or so). I've talked with some of the people who have built these about any plans to make commercial products that do this. Generally the mindset seems to be that if WWVB ever gets shut down then there'd be enough demand for such a thing to justify making them, but until then they just made it for themselves and it's too much of a pain in the butt to make them for others.

If WWVB ever does get shut down it will of course affect a lot more than watches. There are tons of "atomic sync" household clocks and other devices that use this signal for sync, all of which would be rendered nearly useless if WWVB goes away.

Where I live (Pinellas County) the WWVB signal is rather marginal. My Seiko Coutura SSG010 reliably syncs every night but my Casio G-Shock NEVER gets a sync. I've tried all the tricks (hang the watch on a metal bar, etc.) and that G-Shock just doesn't sync here. Amusingly I took it with me to Palatka for an overnight once and that night it got a sync. My radio-sync wall clock also never seems to sync anymore.

To sync these two devices I have an app on my phone called "WWVB Emulator". It uses your phone's time (which by the way may be off by several seconds so I use another app to precision-sync my phone's time first) as the reference and then generates a VERY weak electromagnetic signal with the WWVB signal on it. It's so weak that the phone has to be up against whatever part of the receiving device has the antenna in it in order for it to be received. How does it generate this signal when cell phones don't have a 60 kHz transmitter built in you might ask? It actually sends a modulated signal to the speaker element in the phone which results in a very weak electromagnetic field.

Now I'm an Amateur Extra class ham radio operator and when I first read that there was a WWVB emulator that would run on any phone my first response was a profane exclamation of disbelief. But I'll be damned the thing actually works. I can sync my wall clock and my G-Shock with it and I do so from time to time.

Sorry for such a long reply. I hope you found it useful.
 
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Discussion Starter #211
There was a big hubub when NIST was threatening to shut down WWV, WWVB, and WWVH (WWVB being the signal our watches and other so-called "atomic sync clocks" use) due to funding issues. Congress allocated the necessary funds and that calamity has been averted for now.

There have been some pretty cool projects where people have made their own micro WWVB transmitters (private transmitters transmitting a WWVB compliant signal on the WWVB frequency for local consumption) such as this one. These "micro stations" typically receive the time using GPS signals and then compose the WWVB signal and transmit it in the near field (which only goes a few inches or so). I've talked with some of the people who have built these about any plans to make commercial products that do this. Generally the mindset seems to be that if WWVB ever gets shut down then there'd be enough demand for such a thing to justify making them, but until then they just made it for themselves and it's too much of a pain in the butt to make them for others.

If WWVB ever does get shut down it will of course affect a lot more than watches. There are tons of "atomic sync" household clocks and other devices that use this signal for sync, all of which would be rendered nearly useless if WWVB goes away.

Where I live (Pinellas County) the WWVB signal is rather marginal. My Seiko Coutura SSG010 reliably syncs every night but my Casio G-Shock NEVER gets a sync. I've tried all the tricks (hang the watch on a metal bar, etc.) and that G-Shock just doesn't sync here. Amusingly I took it with me to Palatka for an overnight once and that night it got a sync. My radio-sync wall clock also never seems to sync anymore.

To sync these two devices I have an app on my phone called "WWVB Emulator". It uses your phone's time (which by the way may be off by several seconds so I use another app to precision-sync my phone's time first) as the reference and then generates a VERY weak electromagnetic signal with the WWVB signal on it. It's so weak that the phone has to be up against whatever part of the receiving device has the antenna in it in order for it to be received. How does it generate this signal when cell phones don't have a 60 kHz transmitter built in you might ask? It actually sends a modulated signal to the speaker element in the phone which results in a very weak electromagnetic field.

Now I'm an Amateur Extra class ham radio operator and when I first read that there was a WWVB emulator that would run on any phone my first response was a profane exclamation of disbelief. But I'll be damned the thing actually works. I can sync my wall clock and my G-Shock with it and I do so from time to time.

Sorry for such a long reply. I hope you found it useful.
Great reply. Thanks! Looks like I don't have to worry about the signal being shut down, at least for some time.

Interestingly, my atomic watches sync reliably when in the watch box on my dresser in the master bedroom, which has only some north-facing windows on the side of the room opposite of my dresser. To the west is a solid exterior wall. But, in the main living room, which has a lot of glass exposure to the west... no sync. I'm in Palm Beach County, which is farther away than Pinellas. 🙃

At this moment, I'm in Naples, FL on a little family "vaca." No sync last night for my watch.
 

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Great reply. Thanks! Looks like I don't have to worry about the signal being shut down, at least for some time.

Interestingly, my atomic watches sync reliably when in the watch box on my dresser in the master bedroom, which has only some north-facing windows on the side of the room opposite of my dresser. To the west is a solid exterior wall. But, in the main living room, which has a lot of glass exposure to the west... no sync. I'm in Palm Beach County, which is farther away than Pinellas. 🙃

At this moment, I'm in Naples, FL on a little family "vaca." No sync last night for my watch.
I think part of it is distance (Pinellas is at the edge of WWVB coverage) and part of it is the level of radio interference. Pinellas is the most densely populated county in the state. That probably exacerbates being on the fringe of the WWVB signal. According to the grahpic below Palm Beach County is outside the reception range (at 100v/M) so you are doing well to have a place in the house where you can consistently get a sync.

68711
 

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Discussion Starter #213
I think part of it is distance (Pinellas is at the edge of WWVB coverage) and part of it is the level of radio interference. Pinellas is the most densely populated county in the state. That probably exacerbates being on the fringe of the WWVB signal. According to the grahpic below Palm Beach County is outside the reception range (at 100v/M) so you are doing well to have a place in the house where you can consistently get a sync.

View attachment 68711
My watches usually sync between midnight and 3AM. Here's the map at 2AM

68716
 

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My watches usually sync between midnight and 3AM. Here's the map at 2AM

View attachment 68716
Actually that map looks like it's marked "0200 UTC", which would translate to 10 p.m. EDT. Still, that's better than my map which was marked as "1400 UTC" which would be 10:00 a.m. EDT.

My watches also try their first sync around 1 a.m. local time (around 0500 UTC while we're in Daylight Time). Good work finding the coverage map for a later time. I didn't even realize the one I grabbed was for daytime (when signal coverage is the worst).

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #215
Actually that map looks like it's marked "0200 UTC", which would translate to 10 p.m. EDT. Still, that's better than my map which was marked as "1400 UTC" which would be 10:00 a.m. EDT.

My watches also try their first sync around 1 a.m. local time (around 0500 UTC while we're in Daylight Time). Good work finding the coverage map for a later time. I didn't even realize the one I grabbed was for daytime (when signal coverage is the worst).

Thanks!
Scroll down to find the maps at various times:

 
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Discussion Starter #217

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Discussion Starter #218
Reviving this thread, which while not about guns, is a nice distraction from politics and the COVID hysteria...

WOTD (watch of the day)... wearing this for the first time today. Tried to capture the blue color of the metal case, with different lighting and angles. Photos don't do it justice.

The sides (6 and 9 o'clock) are highly polished, while the flat sides at 12 and 6 o'clock are a brushed metal finish. The hands and hour markers are also blue. I think it looks great. The watch is solar and atomic, which I really like. Set it and forget it... virtually forever.

68761


68762


68763


68764


Light shot!
68765
 

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Great looking G-Shock! ⭐⭐⭐⭐
 
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