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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here is an interesting story. I moved here from NY, a county where pistol permits(you need one even to buy ammo) were not given out at all due to one judge being in charge of it. When I arrived in Florida I bought a gun, waited 3 days then started carrying it in my car, following the rules.

So, I'm out for lunch at Blimpie in Tampa on Kennedy by the mall, I need to get back to work on westshore so I pull out and make a right then make a U-turn, no one is coming. I pull up at the light at westshore and kennedy to make a right. Other cars start waiting at the light and I here a ruckus behind me, one car back on my left. A roid-rage looking frat boy is punching this old(really old) man's window telling him to pull over in the parking lot so he can fight him for cutting him off. Roid-rager keeps punching the window then decides to try the door, it's unlocked. The old man is trying to mind his own business but this guy is trying to pull him out of the car. He's got his seat belt on so the guy is trying to undo the belt and the wipers start going and spraying. I'm thinking I could stop this in an instant if I open my console, but it's none of my business, plus I don't have the permit yet. I will not pull unless I plan shooting. Being from NY this problem is none of my business.

So, two very large men in green shirts, much larger than the roid-rager, get out 2 cars ahead of this poor old man, walk up to the dude, badge in hand "Sheriffs Dept, on the ground". The talk was just a courtesy, one hit and dude was on the ground. Light changed and I drive away.

From my Florida CCW training, I get these two things, 1) If you are in your car and being pulled out/threatened this is a legal shooting situation. 2) You are allowed to defend someone else in a situation where you can defend yourself. Would I have been justified in shooting this guy?

A side note, the sheriff's, obviously above beat cop grade, wait until it becomes a felony to get involved. They had to have seen this guy punching the window but until he opened the door it didn't matter. Or maybe they were just calling it in, these didn't look like guys that wait for backup though.
 

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Without a ccw permit I would only dial 911 provide plate number, height and weight of the offender.

If you have a permit the law does back you if the person is committing a felony. However for me to get involved there would have to be a situation where the victim cannot or is not fighting back (young buck on old guy). This is a gray area for me because once you leave your vehicle to get involved there is the greatest chance that you will be shooting somebody. If you get out your vehicle and yell at the guy to stop he might just come at you and attack in which case I cant fight so I would have to warn the guy and if he does not stop I would shoot. Now comes the investigation and possible attorneys fee. Even though you just stopped a felony is it worth the headache?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
That's the whole thing, attorney's fees. I have the permit now, but the gun was legal in my car without it. I can't afford attorney fees so I will do nothing, if I could, will I still do nothing? I will again quote the Wu Tang Clan as I did in my final essay in college history 10+ years ago(I got an A), Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
-skull
cream, get the money, dolla dolla bill yo.

WTF

edit: I reread what you said. I'm too old to fight people on the street. I will never warn someone I am going to shoot them. My gun is not a threat, it's a gun. I'm either shooting or there is no gun.
 

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I would only bring my gun into play if the non-aggressor was in imminent, serious physical danger.

An example:

I used to work in a downtown location. One afternoon during the early parts of rush hour two cars came flying into the dock area of the newspaper I worked at. The drivers started yelling quite ferociously at one another...then one exited his vehicle and went after the other.

Through the course of this whole thing...until the police finally arrived...these two hispanic gentlemen atacked each other with a chain, a tire iron and a baseball bat. They moved into and out of both of the cars...all in all they fought tooth and nail for 6-7 minutes before the law arrived.

I chose not to get involved at all as neither seemed to get the advantage over the other at any time during the scuffle...and I even went so far as to discourage co-workers and our subordinates to keep out of it. (though my moron boss decided to try to approach the perps)

Had the situation turned for the worse for one or the other...and there was imminent danger of serious bodily harm for the "loser"...then I may have been forced to become involved...or possibly even draw my gun (which would have cost me my job)...

Fortunately...I didn't have to.
 

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What you experienced is the mental quandary that anyone who carries a concealed weapon must deal with.

The law tells you... A person has no duty to retreat in his lawfully occupied vehicle against a person who was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering or had unlawfully and forcefully entered an occupied vehicle or had unlawfully and forcefully removed or was attempting to remove another against that person's will from the occupied vehicle.

Furthermore, in defense of others... If you see someone who is being attacked, you can use deadly force to defend him/her if the circumstances would justify that person's use of deadly force in his/her own defense. In other words, you "stand in the shoes" of the person being attacked.

Deadly force is justified if you are trying to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. The use of deadly force must be absolutely necessary to prevent the crime. Also, if the criminal runs away, you cannot use deadly force to stop him, because you would no longer be "preventing" a crime. If use of deadly force is not necessary, or you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, you could be convicted of manslaughter.

In a nutshell, unless it was a life or death situation/forcible felony, you had best avoid using your weapon. You also have to decide if you want to assume the legal and financial burden that accompanies it.

Unless you are literally going to save the innocent man's life, IMHO, jumping out of your car and confronting this guy with a weapon would have been a bad, if not illegal move on your part. As long as the man was not taking violent, if not potentially deadly blows, it did not cross that legal threshold for the use of deadly force.
 

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Never draw your gun unless you're fully prepared to pull the trigger and put one or more into a bad guy. If you've got any qualms about that, due to legal questions, emotional issues, etc., don't do it. Call 911.

Good witness = good thing
Potential test case = likely not so good

All worked out. Fool got what was coming to him, and I have another story of an idiot getting owned to help me sleep tonight.

I really, really, REALLY hate "What would you do...?" type things, but had that buy been trying to get into YOUR car, up until he tried to open the door, he's kinda just assaulting your property. If he got the door open and tried to get you out, that's another matter entirely. However, THEN you're trying to get to your weapon while another person is fully intent on his/her own agenda and your person.

Danged if you do, danged if you don't.

One of the many reasons why I hate "What would you do...?" things.

-JT
 

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I think i would have honked my horn and yelled to stop the fighting please. :laughing

Then once the asshole walked over and opened my door, he would be greeted with my glock 26's nasty end while i proceeded to stop what i though was a car jacking. :drinks
 

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What you experienced is the mental quandary that anyone who carries a concealed weapon must deal with.

The law tells you... A person has no duty to retreat in his lawfully occupied vehicle against a person who was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering or had unlawfully and forcefully entered an occupied vehicle or had unlawfully and forcefully removed or was attempting to remove another against that person's will from the occupied vehicle.

Furthermore, in defense of others... If you see someone who is being attacked, you can use deadly force to defend him/her if the circumstances would justify that person's use of deadly force in his/her own defense. In other words, you "stand in the shoes" of the person being attacked.

Deadly force is justified if you are trying to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. The use of deadly force must be absolutely necessary to prevent the crime. Also, if the criminal runs away, you cannot use deadly force to stop him, because you would no longer be "preventing" a crime. If use of deadly force is not necessary, or you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, you could be convicted of manslaughter.

In a nutshell, unless it was a life or death situation/forcible felony, you had best avoid using your weapon. You also have to decide if you want to assume the legal and financial burden that accompanies it.

Unless you are literally going to save the innocent man's life, IMHO, jumping out of your car and confronting this guy with a weapon would have been a bad, if not illegal move on your part. As long as the man was not taking violent, if not potentially deadly blows, it did not cross that legal threshold for the use of deadly force.
Well said, Ron. :thumsup
 

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The actual law is far more complicated than the printed law. You would have been charged because you would have not been able to prove the intent.
 
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