Florida Concealed Carry banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,052 Posts
:popcorn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,579 Posts
Article provides absolute zero about what exactly is being violated and it doesn't specify how. The only thing mentioned in the response letter from the SA's investigator was some emails that contained pictures of firearms and the name of the conveying customer that the SA determined do NOT constitute a list (registry) under FSS790.335. That statute specifically cites as exceptions "Firearm records, including paper pawn transaction forms and contracts on firearm transactions, required by chapters 538 and 539." Sounds remarkably like what the SA's investigator said.

Once again Ammoland reports one single side of the story - the response - but won't give you the complaint side of the story so we can judge exactly what the SO is alleged to have done. Far as I'm concerned, if they want to hide it, there's no need for anyone to be concerned about it. If it has merit, then lay it out on the table so we can all see it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,952 Posts
Article provides absolute zero about what exactly is being violated and it doesn't specify how. The only thing mentioned in the response letter from the SA's investigator was some emails that contained pictures of firearms and the name of the conveying customer that the SA determined do NOT constitute a list (registry) under FSS790.335. That statute specifically cites as exceptions "Firearm records, including paper pawn transaction forms and contracts on firearm transactions, required by chapters 538 and 539." Sounds remarkably like what the SA's investigator said.

Once again Ammoland reports one single side of the story - the response - but won't give you the complaint side of the story so we can judge exactly what the SO is alleged to have done. Far as I'm concerned, if they want to hide it, there's no need for anyone to be concerned about it. If it has merit, then lay it out on the table so we can all see it.
I disagree with the above statements completely.
Did you read the entirety of 790.335 and 538/539?

It is very clear that a database of firearm owners is illegal.
Yes - pawn shops must submit records of firearms being pawned.

The Sheriff's office violated the law when they took multiple such records, (which presumably would have also included non-firearm transactions), from SEVERAL different pawn shops, over a period of time, and entered that information into a database when they then data-mined to extract only a list of firearms that had been pawned.

Do you see the difference?
A pawn shop could accept a gun as collateral for a loan, and then report it to the Sheriff's office.
The Sheriff could then (without doing anything else) do whatever checks were needed to confirm that that particular pawned weapon was not implicated in any crimes, etc...
Each check is made individually, with zero need to aggregate all such pawn shop reports into a centralized database. (And in fact, he need not have the owner's name, but we can table that here.)

When the Sheriff collected all such records from all sources, on an ongoing basis, weeding it such that only firearms records remained -- then he has created a LIST of firearms owners, in direct violation of the Statutes. He could have done everything that needed doing without the list, and if you read the statutes with that knowledge and understanding, then the entirety of the Statue makes perfect sense.

Bottom line: They are breaking the law.
It's pretty clear to me, the way I read it. I am not an attorney, or a pre-law wanna-be.
But I can read the plain language and parse it. The exception covers the transmission by the pawn shop. Period.
It does not authorize the compiling of computerized lists of gun owners after the fact, by the Sheriff, as a consequence of being in possession of pawn transactions so reported.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,874 Posts
I like Anduril's interpretation.

Then again, as an executive member of Florida Carry, I feel like I have a dog in the hunt.

Now that I've given full disclosure, I like Anduril's interpretation. :grin

:popcorn

-on Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,792 Posts
We will get all the facts that we need when the law suit is filed.

Purdy has a reading comprehension problem or, just wants us to believe that he does not understand the complaint and hopes it will go away.

His letter is non-responsive to the facts as we know them.

All they need to do is destroy the prohibited data and promise to stop collecting more. No, that would be too easy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,163 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,219 Posts
Mr.L......; You seem to be unable to actually make narrative posts since all your posts are just links.
And today you have about 10 new threads.
I wonder.......are you under contract to the forum owners to boost the click count?????????
Don't take this wrong Fish not solely directed at you, to many members jumping on "another individual" for doing the same thing....knew it was just a matter of time before the SHTF on Lautermilch posting articles without many personal comments. If the subject matter does not interest me I do not open to view the content. Why is posting articles to promote conversation a bad thing? Also why is posting something of other than what the "experts in here" agree with a bad thing? Just because we all own guns does not make us always agree on everything that is posted. Each opinion is a personal, not a exact way of life. The trouble with this country right now is no opinion is viewed as exercising our rights under the 1st amendment, if it is not what the majority on hand wants to hear or see. No opinions are heard, absorbed, and evaluated for discussion and compromise by many in here and in the country in general. My way or the highway is getting us no place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,163 Posts
Don't take this wrong Fish not solely directed at you, to many members jumping on "another individual" for doing the same thing....knew it was just a matter of time before the SHTF on Lautermilch posting articles without many personal comments. If the subject matter does not interest me I do not open to view the content. Why is posting articles to promote conversation a bad thing? Also why is posting something of other than what the "experts in here" agree with a bad thing? Just because we all own guns does not make us always agree on everything that is posted. Each opinion is a personal, not a exact way of life. The trouble with this country right now is no opinion is viewed as exercising our rights under the 1st amendment, if it is not what the majority on hand wants to hear or see. No opinions are heard, absorbed, and evaluated for discussion and compromise by many in here and in the country in general. My way or the highway is getting us no place.
Thanks Mike; It's just that we rarely hear what Mr. L himself has to say.
I too open the links that interest me and leave the others alone.
Some of the link sources amuse me like "South Florida Butt Kissers Journal" ???:grin:dancingbanana:rofl

Or "United Douche Bags of America":rofl
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,952 Posts
Well, I want to give a +1 to Laudermilch for his downright prolific postings!
The vast majority are either on-topic, or close enough to be of interest to a forum like this.

I was wondering where he gets all his leads.
He'd probably make a hell of a private investigator... or "Special Counsel". :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,630 Posts
Thanks Mike; It's just that we rarely hear what Mr. L himself has to say.
I too open the links that interest me and leave the others alone.
Some of the link sources amuse me like "South Florida Butt Kissers Journal" ???:grin:dancingbanana:rofl

Or "United Douche Bags of America":rofl
I like the girly pictures myself :grin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,874 Posts
Florida Carry Inc., a gun owner’s rights organization, has been asking for an investigation of Florida sheriffs, including the Charlotte County Sheriff’s Office, for allegedly sharing gun owners’ private information unlawfully.

Attorney Eric Friday said he’s concerned about emails obtained from the Charlotte County Sheriff’s Office which included lists of pawned guns and their owners obtained from the online database FINDER PawnWeb.




-on Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,579 Posts
I'm trying to understand the concern here, but I'm having some difficulty seeing where the foul is.

It is state law that requires the pawn shops to submit those lists of pawned guns to LE, and a specific exemption is allowed for records of firearms used in any crime, and also for records "relating to any person convicted of a crime" (FSS 790.335). Please note it does NOT say "convicted of a felony," but merely convicted of a crime. So for a LEA to receive this list and do absolutely nothing with it seems pretty stupid - I mean, why have that reporting requirement in law if the law is powerless to even look at the paper? It must go to them for some reason.

It appears in this case an email within an agency wanted someone to bounce the list against a list of known felons to see if any felons were pawning weapons they aren't even supposed to be in possession of. How is that violating what purpose this law serves? I'm not clear on that - perhaps someone can enlighten me on what exactly LE *IS* supposed to do with this information?

It also appears that this got a fair review by a SA who looked at it and didn't find it violates the law. Obviously FC disagrees but doesn't detail how or why they disagree beyond simply not liking the decision. I was hoping they could provide a more solid foundation than simple dislike of a SA's response.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,874 Posts
CHARLOTTE COUNTY, Fla. - A gun owner's rights advocacy group accused the Charlotte County and Sarasota County Sheriff's Offices of illegally sharing private gun owner information with other law enforcement agencies.

A copy of an email from the Charlotte County Sheriff's Office dated Dec. 3, 2013 showed a CCSO official emailing a North Port police official a weekly gun sales report. All of the information about the gun sales is blacked out, but you can see the CCSO official asked about an NPPD detective about running Sarasota County gun sale reports.




-on Tapatalk
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top