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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can someone provide a link to the federal laws about where you can or cant carry your firearm.
I am looking for the equivalent to f.s. 790 but on a federal level.

I found this:
http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Federal/Read.aspx?id=63

but I guess I am an idiot and cant find it because the only thing I could find under the above link is something that states is you can not take a gun into a "federal building" thats it. I would expect to find something more than that. Or at minimum an definition of what is considered a "federal building" i.e. a post office

Thanks in advance.
 

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Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

(c) A person who kills or attempts to kill any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, and 1113.

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to:

(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law;or

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph(1) or (2) of subsection (d).

(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.

(g) As used in this section:

(1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

(2) The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.

(3) The term "Federal court facility" means the courtroom, judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection(a) or (e), as the case may be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
(g) As used in this section:

(1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
Thanks, I overlooked the above part. Is that it? No federal building/courthouse. No other places you can't carry. If that "federal building/courthouse" is it, I guess I am surprised. I expected something like the fl statute which lists:

into any place of nuisance
any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;
any detention facility, prison, or jail;
any courthouse; any courtroom;
any polling place;
any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district;
any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;
any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms;
any school administration building;
any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises,
any elementary or secondary school facility;
any career center;
any college or university facility;
inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport;
any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

I guess because of the last line which states any place prohibited by federal law, there would be a ton of places that are prohibited by federal law. I guess I was wrong.
 

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The State of Florida has legal jurisdiction over where it wishes to restrict carry, as evidenced by the more lengthy guidelines it imposes. The Federal laws are obviously in addition to those of the State of Florida, and are more limited in scope, but no less enforceable.
 

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Thanks, I overlooked the above part. Is that it? No federal building/courthouse. No other places you can't carry. If that "federal building/courthouse" is it, I guess I am surprised. I expected something like the fl statute which lists:

into any place of nuisance
any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;
any detention facility, prison, or jail;
any courthouse; any courtroom;
any polling place;
any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district;
any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;
any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms;
any school administration building;
any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises,
any elementary or secondary school facility;
any career center;
any college or university facility;
inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport;
any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

I guess because of the last line which states any place prohibited by federal law, there would be a ton of places that are prohibited by federal law. I guess I was wrong.

Say your carrying concealed on your body or in your car and you had to pick up your sick son/daughter from school, run to the post office and see your professor at U.S.F? What are you to do with your weapon?
 

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Say your carrying concealed on your body or in your car and you had to pick up your sick son/daughter from school, run to the post office and see your professor at U.S.F? What are you to do with your weapon?
I would lock it up in my car safe.
 

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It has been a while since I have been to a Post Office. Do they have signs posted at the doorway stating "No Firearms"?

If not, then section (h) sure provides a loophole for a good attorney to work with.


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000930----000-.html

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 930Prev | Next § 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
 

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I'll go ahead and open this can of worms, since I'm feeling froggy today...


Post Offices are not 'federal' facilities. Post Office employees are not 'federal' employees.

Bu'Bye now.....:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'll go ahead and open this can of worms, since I'm feeling froggy today...


Post Offices are not 'federal' facilities. Post Office employees are not 'federal' employees.

Bu'Bye now.....:D

You asked for it. Since when is the Post Office not a federal building. I did not realize the post office was privatized. Can you post something to support that? Thanks
 

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You asked for it. Since when is the Post Office not a federal building. I did not realize the post office was privatized. Can you post something to support that? Thanks
Ohhhhh....since about 1970.

Yeah, I can, but won't you learn a lot more doing your own research? :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ohhhhh....since about 1970.

Yeah, I can, but won't you learn a lot more doing your own research? :D

I am using this forum while working. I can barely get away with that. Your help would be greatly appreciated. :D
 

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Post Office/Signs Prohibiting Firearms

I have been to the post office in my area here in Florida and I made a point of walking around the whole outside perimeter of the building.

There was not one sign posted prohibiting weapons/firearms. I had gone in one time previous carrying.

But have not carried concealed there since.
 

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I am using this forum while working. I can barely get away with that. Your help would be greatly appreciated. :D
I'll help you out a little...

The Postal Reorganization Act of 1970 abolished the United States Post Office Department, a part of the cabinet, and created the United States Postal Service, a corporation with an official monopoly on the delivery of mail in the United States. The Post Office Department was the former name of the United States Postal Service when it was a cabinet department. ...
The USPS is a 'business entity' operated by the .gov. It is not a 'federal department' for the sake of this discussion.

I used to work for a company in FL that operated much the same way. We were overseen by the State, but we were not a State Agency, nor were we State Employees.

I am NOT saying that it is legal to carry in a PostOffice, especially with the new CFRs published recently, only that the traditional 'don't carry in a federal building' does not specifically apply to USPS offices.

It is a gray area, to be sure. I still don't do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'll help you out a little...



The USPS is a 'business entity' operated by the .gov. It is not a 'federal department' for the sake of this discussion.

I used to work for a company in FL that operated much the same way. We were overseen by the State, but we were not a State Agency, nor were we State Employees.

I am NOT saying that it is legal to carry in a PostOffice, especially with the new CFRs published recently, only that the traditional 'don't carry in a federal building' does not specifically apply to USPS offices.

It is a gray area, to be sure. I still don't do it.

Thanks for the info. It would explain why others on this site state they have not seen a no gun sign at the post office. I dont recall seeing one at my PO either. Also the fact that it was previously posted "no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be. " Seems like you can play the stupid card in this case and be okay. I would not recommend loitering around the post office with you gun printing to prove a point but good to know that if I have to run in to through a letter in the "out box" at the post office I am not going to jail for a LONG TIME.
 

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FYI - second paragraph - wholly owned by the government - I think their retirement is paid by U.S. Office of Personnel Management (OPM) & their health benefits are part of the 'Federal Employees Health Benefits (FEHP),' which come under OPM. As far as I know no private company has those benefits.

Governance and organization

Full eagle logo from 1970 to 1994The Board of Governors of the United States Postal Service sets policy, procedure, and postal rates for services rendered, and has a similar role to a corporate board of directors. Of the eleven members of the Board, nine are appointed by the President and confirmed by the United States Senate (see 39 U.S.C. § 202). The nine appointed members then select the United States Postmaster General, who serves as the board's tenth member, and who oversees the day to day activities of the service as Chief Executive Officer (see 39 U.S.C. § 202–203). The ten-member board then nominates a Deputy Postmaster General, who acts as Chief Operating Officer, to the eleventh and last remaining open seat.

The USPS is often mistaken for a government-owned corporation (e.g., Amtrak), but as noted above is legally defined as an "independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States," (39 U.S.C. § 201) as it is wholly owned by the government and controlled by the Presidential appointees and the Postmaster General.[/FONT] As a quasi-governmental agency, it has many special privileges, including sovereign immunity, eminent domain powers, powers to negotiate postal treaties with foreign nations, and an exclusive legal right to deliver first-class and third-class mail. Indeed in 2004, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the USPS was not a government-owned corporation and therefore could not be sued under the Sherman Antitrust Act.[11] The U.S. Supreme Court has also upheld the USPS's statutory monopoly on access to letterboxes against a First Amendment freedom of speech challenge; it thus remains illegal in the U.S. for anyone other than the employees and agents of the USPS to deliver mailpieces to letterboxes marked "U.S. Mail."[12]
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Good Times, Nice post. Welcome to the forum by the way :drinks
 

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Thanks for the info. It would explain why others on this site state they have not seen a no gun sign at the post office. I dont recall seeing one at my PO either. Also the fact that it was previously posted "no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be. " Seems like you can play the stupid card in this case and be okay. I would not recommend loitering around the post office with you gun printing to prove a point but good to know that if I have to run in to through a letter in the "out box" at the post office I am not going to jail for a LONG TIME.
If you read the CFRs that actually apply to the USPS, conviction of carrying a weapon unlawfully (I'll let ya'll decide what that means) carries a penalty of not more than 30 days and a fine of not more than $50.

Getting caught carrying in a 'federal facility' will net you MUCH more than that.

The only time I go to the USPS is when some dipstick sends me a certified letter.
 

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Playing Devils advocate here:

Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to:

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
If I have a Florida Concealed Weapon License and

I am lawfully carrying a concealed weapon upon my person,

and I am at the Post Office to lawfully mail a letter,

am I not legal according to 930 (d)(3)?
 

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You still have to be careful because some of the older post offices have federal court rooms in them as well.
 

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Playing Devils advocate here:



If I have a Florida Concealed Weapon License and

I am lawfully carrying a concealed weapon upon my person,

and I am at the Post Office to lawfully mail a letter,

am I not legal according to 930 (d)(3)?
That's the gray area, and general argument TSSGT. I didn't think it would be long before you found it and chimed in. :D

I still won't do it. Not worth the risk the rare times I actually go to a USPS office.
 
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