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Not concealed... Open carry only, to and from range, fishing, hunting, etc.
Section 790.25 is self-contradictory on this point but has generally been held to cover open and concealed.

On the one hand 790.25(2) says:

This section does not authorize carrying a concealed weapon without a permit, as prohibited by ss. 790.01 and 790.02.

[Note that when it says "this section" it is referring to the entirety of F.S. 790.25.]

But then in the very next subsection, F.S. 790.25(3), it says:

The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes[...]

The courts have generally held that the only reasonable meaning of stating that 790.06 does not apply would be to allow concealed carry.

All of that said, personally I wouldn't carry a firearm concealed without a CWFL under any of the exemptions because the risk is too high. If you are arrested for it and somehow get convicted it's a felony.

Nonetheless it is VERY well settled that you can carry openly or concealed, without a license, at your home or place of business (see Florida Supreme Court ruling in Peoples v State) and all of the other exemptions including camping, fishing, etc. are in the same subsection as "home or place of business".
 

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Comply..Castro would love that attitude
 

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Discussion Starter #43

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Discussion Starter #44
Now you please tell me this,
Do you really think you are going to win if a fight with a Police Officer or the 6 or 7 that join in just because you felt you are within your right which you certainly are.
There are a million things they will charge you with if you do not comply to a Police Officer.
Sorry, but this is just the way it is in 2020
Ronnie
You obviously did not read the OP at all. Where did I say fight with a LEO on the side of the road?
Nah, I will collect the money from the civil rights violation if it happens again.
Never argue on the side of the road. Always in court.
 

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Do you really think you are going to win if a fight with a Police Officer...
OH PLEASE!!! Nobody said they were going to get into a fight with an officer over this! GEEZ! Talk about reductio ad absurdum!

All anyone has said is that the law does not require you to tell an officer if you have a gun, even if he asks. In fact, everyone here has said that -- at least under most circumstances -- they would answer the officer's questions honestly.

To Bob... Very well handled.

I would add that I am very impressed with the reaction of the night shift Commander. He could have reacted to your call in about a dozen different ways. The way he DID react was the best, and most productive way, that he could have.

In the end, an excellent result.
 

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Not concealed... Open carry only, to and from range, fishing, hunting, etc.
Like Brian alluded to, the statute says open (790.053) or concealed (790.06).

That's always the way I've understood it.

-on Tapatalk
 

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I just want to go on record as saying I’m very impressed with the generally civil tone this conversation has taken.

Frequently, these subjects spiral into a bashing thread or at least a tense “I know you are but what am I?” tone.

There are obviously differences in opinion and understanding as well as approaches to the same scenario. But, nicely done y’all. :thumsup

And to the OP, well played IMHO. I believe keeping cool and civil is the foundation of a positive encounter with LE.
 

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Did the PBSO Night Shift Commander ever get back to you regarding this issue?
I'm confident that Bob will return here and update us when, after a reasonable amount of time with 1) the Night Shift Commander gets back to him or 2) Bob loses patience and re-engages with PBSO. He's not very tolerant of lip service and I seriously doubt he'll just let it go!
 

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I just want to go on record as saying I’m very impressed with the generally civil tone this conversation has taken.

Frequently, these subjects spiral into a bashing thread or at least a tense “I know you are but what am I?” tone.

There are obviously differences in opinion and understanding as well as approaches to the same scenario. But, nicely done y’all. :thumsup

And to the OP, well played IMHO. I believe keeping cool and civil is the foundation of a positive encounter with LE.
:thumsup
 

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This will be a long post but bare with me.

I was pulled over in South Palm Beach County at 11:30 on 2/18 by a young county Sheriff Deputy for a tag violation. Do not for one minute bash cops over this post.
The young officer told me my tag had expired. Not realizing my truck tags expire on 12/31 instead of my birthday. I did not receive a notice to renew.
While pulled over he asked me did I have a gun in the car. I asked him why he asked that. And stated you know I don’t have to tell you that, right? I got a strange look.
I said look I am not trying to make your job harder so I will answer, yes I do.
I am the President and Chief instructor of the oldest continual running firearms academy in Florida and am also the director of education for the organization Florida Carry.
As this is happening his backup shows up, a little older and seemed to be a more experienced deputy.
Both actually walked up to my passenger side door. While the younger one went to his car to write the ticket, the older one opened my passenger side door, reached into my console and took my gun. The whole time I was asking what do you think you are doing? You can’t come in my car and take anything of mine. I don’t give you permission to enter of take anything.
He set the gun on roof of the truck claiming he is just setting it right there.
I started to educate him on how many ways this was wrong and why.
1-4th Amendment violation
2-guns don’t go off by themselves only when handled.
3-he eventually will run into someone that will try to physically stop them and someone will get hurt.
4-If I was a murderer and that was a murder weapon, he would be putting that murderer back on the street due to illegal search and seizure.
5-I don’t want one of my students to ever have to deal with this.
He ignored my complaint.
Fast forward 2 days as I wanted to calm down before I called Palm Beach County Sheriffs Dept. I got bounced around several places until I got the number for the Night Shift Commander for that district. I called his desk and left a message, he called me back promptly.
I informed him of who I was, the situation that happened.
I told him I did not want to get the officers in trouble or I would have already called Internal Affairs and made a complaint. And that did not want any thing in the officers files that would be carried for their career. They seemed to be nice guys.
BUT and her is where my attitude changes. I am calling to ask you if it is a policy issue or a training issue? Is it your policy to violate 4th amendment rights because of a gun in the private conveyance of a law abiding citizen? Or is it a training issue that your deputy needs to be retrained on the traffic stop that involves firearms?
I said because if it is a policy issue you will be hearing from the attorneys of Florida Carry.
If it’s a training issue, I am bringing it to your attention to fix your problem. What was done is illegal and dangerous. And that if it happens again I will be calling IAD and bringing suit.
His response was heartening.
He said first. I am sorry you went through that. It is not our policy not our training. Why an officer would introduce a gun into a situation where it need not be is atrocious. And I agree with you that is dangerous for so many reasons. Reaching into a vehicle that a gun is in is just stupid without removing the driver. And completely agreed with me.
He assured me he would investigate the issue. Bring up the issue in the shift meeting the next day and find out if this is a one off or systematic on his shift. He would make sure that his shift was completely informed of the law in regards to this situation.
He would interview the officers separately and investigate the situation and get back to me.
He thanked me for not going through IAD or filing suit although it was my right.
Thanked me and said he would get back soon.
I will post the follow up when it comes.

Now before all the mouth breathers start saying I should have sued or filled a legal complaint. You do realize the job these officers have? You do realize they have families? You do realize they give you the courtesy of sometime giving you warm wings and education?
They need education also. And not just from their departments. I am just glad it’s not the dept policy or their mass training.
:2thumsup Love how you handled this VERY MATURE!
 

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I just re-read the OP.

One thing I wasn't clear on. If you didn't answer in the affirmative as to the presence of a firearm, how did he know to go into the glove box to retrieve it? Or did I miss something in between?

Also... were you carrying a firearm ON you at the time, as well?
 

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Discussion Starter #54
I just re-read the OP.

One thing I wasn't clear on. If you didn't answer in the affirmative as to the presence of a firearm, how did he know to go into the glove box to retrieve it? Or did I miss something in between?

Also... were you carrying a firearm ON you at the time, as well?
No, I felt gratuitous and eventually told him I had a gun in the box, not the one on me.
 

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Unfortunately the situation actually requires that you proceed full blast against the department. Anything less is doing a disservice to lawful gun owners exercising their legal rights.


Why?


Because the government isn't going to change unless it feels pain for its actions. It will keep encroaching as long as people let them. They will stop when they get pushback, but as long as people don't punish them then they will just continue to run over people's rights.

You handled it great at the scene, never escalate if possible, but after the fact these clowns need to be taught a lesson OR they will just abuse the next person they pull over too.
 

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And the pigeon tries to play chess again and just craps all over the chessboard instead. :thumbsdwn
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Unfortunately the situation actually requires that you proceed full blast against the department. Anything less is doing a disservice to lawful gun owners exercising their legal rights.


Why?


Because the government isn't going to change unless it feels pain for its actions. It will keep encroaching as long as people let them. They will stop when they get pushback, but as long as people don't punish them then they will just continue to run over people's rights.

You handled it great at the scene, never escalate if possible, but after the fact these clowns need to be taught a lesson OR they will just abuse the next person they pull over too.
Here is a thought. When it happens to you, go ahead and do as you see fit. You spend 3 yrs of your life and all the money it’s going to cost you. Then come back and tell us all how that works out for you.
I want the problem fixed not get into a litigation that will take 3 yrs of my life.

Make sure post and let everyone know how it works out.
 

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Here is a thought. When it happens to you, go ahead and do as you see fit. You spend 3 yrs of your life and all the money it’s going to cost you. Then come back and tell us all how that works out for you.
I want the problem fixed not get into a litigation that will take 3 yrs of my life.

Make sure post and let everyone know how it works out.
Yes I absolutely would. If you don't fight for your rights, then you lose them.


There is another thread with more commentary on the follow up here:

https://www.floridaconcealedcarry.com/Forum/showthread.php?134751-Follow-up-with-PBSO-on-gun-removal-from-car
 

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Yes I absolutely would.
Sure you would. Pretty easy to say, sitting behind the keyboard. But, you know what? I don't believe you. Not for one minute. And you can say whatever you want, but I am NEVER going to believe you... Until I hear that you have spent three years of your life, and all your money, in litigation to teach them all a lesson. And I am certainly not going to hold my breath, waiting to hear that!
 
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