I think that's a fine description. The only thing I would add is that it's easy to overdo the "slow squeeze" when you're engaged in slow fire bullseye shooting. You can get so intent on not letting the round go off unless the sight picture is perfect that you wait too long. Trigger control includes getting the round off in a reasonable time. Not too fast, but not too slow either.
Educating Dan - Session 8: Trigger Control and Grip
Hi, I'm Dan. I just completed my CCW class and really don't know much at all about guns. This forum seems very helpful, so I'm going to create a series of threads that, with your help, will educate me about my new life as a licensed gun-carrying American.
Hi all,
OK, I've got about 600 rounds through my Beretta 92FS now and I have what I hope is an intelligent question: What exaclty is, and how does one practice/improve trigger control?
From what I'm reading, I gather that trigger control means proper placement of the finger on the trigger, followed by a slow squeeze until the round fires. The squeeze is less like wrapping your finger around the trigger a squeezing it tight as if to criush it, and more like letting the pad of the finger move the trigger straight backwards. Almost as if one were pressing the trigger against the front of thr grips. One should not "pull" the trigger in a jerking motion. one should press the trigger backward.
Is that a good description?
I'm finding that although I'm generally happy with my shooting, I do tend to hit a bit low and left of what i'm firing at. I beliebe I have a slight anticipatory flinch that causes me to react to the recoil more than i need to. I also notice that I tend to keep my left thumb off the gun. (I shoot right-handed) The thmb is still parallel to my right thumb, but it just comes off the gun sometimes. Again, this might be a small "fear" of the bang to come. I'm not afraid of the gun or anything, but I guess it's like how your eyes blink when a big sound happens even if you know it's coming. I'm compensating by consciously pressing my left thmb down to help control the gun. I think I might be over-thinking everything.
I've been dry-firing with snap caps, but I'm not sure how much it's helping.
Any thoughts on trigger control and or grip adjustments would be helpful.
thanks in advance,
Dan
Hi all,
OK, I've got about 600 rounds through my Beretta 92FS now and I have what I hope is an intelligent question: What exaclty is, and how does one practice/improve trigger control?
From what I'm reading, I gather that trigger control means proper placement of the finger on the trigger, followed by a slow squeeze until the round fires. The squeeze is less like wrapping your finger around the trigger a squeezing it tight as if to criush it, and more like letting the pad of the finger move the trigger straight backwards. Almost as if one were pressing the trigger against the front of thr grips. One should not "pull" the trigger in a jerking motion. one should press the trigger backward.
Is that a good description?
I'm finding that although I'm generally happy with my shooting, I do tend to hit a bit low and left of what i'm firing at. I beliebe I have a slight anticipatory flinch that causes me to react to the recoil more than i need to. I also notice that I tend to keep my left thumb off the gun. (I shoot right-handed) The thmb is still parallel to my right thumb, but it just comes off the gun sometimes. Again, this might be a small "fear" of the bang to come. I'm not afraid of the gun or anything, but I guess it's like how your eyes blink when a big sound happens even if you know it's coming. I'm compensating by consciously pressing my left thmb down to help control the gun. I think I might be over-thinking everything.
I've been dry-firing with snap caps, but I'm not sure how much it's helping.
Any thoughts on trigger control and or grip adjustments would be helpful.
thanks in advance,
Dan
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
I think that's a fine description. The only thing I would add is that it's easy to overdo the "slow squeeze" when you're engaged in slow fire bullseye shooting. You can get so intent on not letting the round go off unless the sight picture is perfect that you wait too long. Trigger control includes getting the round off in a reasonable time. Not too fast, but not too slow either.
Dan,
Check out this video from Jerry Mikulek on trigger pull.....
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=how%20does%20one%20practice%2Fimprove%20trigger%20control%3F&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv#
Check out this video from Jerry Mikulek on trigger pull.....
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=how%20does%20one%20practice%2Fimprove%20trigger%20control%3F&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv#
dcook22,
The 92 has a fairly large grip. For many people the gun is too large to properly fit their hand. If you could take some pictures of your firing grip one handed from the top of the gun while you are holding the 92 with your finger on the trigger, I'll be better able to determine if that is the situation here.
Bullets striking low left for a right handed shooter would indicate you are pushing the gun in anticipation. For a left handed shooter, it would indicate one has too much trigger finger on the trigger and is pulling on the gun.
Brownie
The 92 has a fairly large grip. For many people the gun is too large to properly fit their hand. If you could take some pictures of your firing grip one handed from the top of the gun while you are holding the 92 with your finger on the trigger, I'll be better able to determine if that is the situation here.
Bullets striking low left for a right handed shooter would indicate you are pushing the gun in anticipation. For a left handed shooter, it would indicate one has too much trigger finger on the trigger and is pulling on the gun.
Brownie
OK you have snap caps and are dry firing. When you dry fire try to find a "target" that allows you to see if you are getting any deflection when pulling the trigger. Even a small movement can result in a lot of deflection by the time the bullet gets to the target. Once you are sure you have the mechanics down it is time for the range.
Bring your snap caps and a friend. Have your friend load your magazine for you and insert the snap cap in a random location, after the second round and before the last round. Start a slow course of fire, maybe one round every 3-5 seconds. When you hit the the snap cap there will just be a "click" of course. But at that moment you will be able to see any movement caused by a flinch. As your brain gets the feedback, you will be able to make corrections.
The thumb may or may not be a problem. On my 96G I like to keep the left thumb solid against the frame. This helps a lot on the DA trigger pull.
One final thing that a lot of people do that is a mistake: Do not get into the habit of "blasting" the target.
After every shot or set of shots (burst) look at the target and see where they hit and think about what you did.
Bring your snap caps and a friend. Have your friend load your magazine for you and insert the snap cap in a random location, after the second round and before the last round. Start a slow course of fire, maybe one round every 3-5 seconds. When you hit the the snap cap there will just be a "click" of course. But at that moment you will be able to see any movement caused by a flinch. As your brain gets the feedback, you will be able to make corrections.
The thumb may or may not be a problem. On my 96G I like to keep the left thumb solid against the frame. This helps a lot on the DA trigger pull.
One final thing that a lot of people do that is a mistake: Do not get into the habit of "blasting" the target.
After every shot or set of shots (burst) look at the target and see where they hit and think about what you did.
Todd Jarrett... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363
Here's an article that discusses grip, thumb over thumb and straight thumb techniques.. http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/index.html
Here's an article that discusses grip, thumb over thumb and straight thumb techniques.. http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/index.html
This was the very same video my cousin sent me to learn proper grip and trigger control.Todd Jarrett... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363
Here's an article that discusses grip, thumb over thumb and straight thumb techniques.. http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/index.html
Great video!!!!
We need to first determine if the grip is too big for his hand. If it is, we have other issues besides normal trigger control and handhold.
Brownie
Brownie
4
OK, pics of my grip below.
And no wisecracks like "Hey, how'd you get an orangutan to hold the gun?" I know I'm a hairy bas%$&d.
Below: I think my hands are big enough. I have no trouble reaching the trigger.
![]()
Below: Overview - pad before first joint on trigger (Gun is NOT LOADED and MANUAL SAFETY IS ON)
![]()
Below: Two hand grip - finger off trigger
![]()
Below: Finger on trigger again to show space between right index finger and right side of grip. About 1/4 tp 3/8 inch of space when finger rests on trigger.
![]()
Post continued below...pic limit is 4.
And no wisecracks like "Hey, how'd you get an orangutan to hold the gun?" I know I'm a hairy bas%$&d.
Below: I think my hands are big enough. I have no trouble reaching the trigger.
Below: Overview - pad before first joint on trigger (Gun is NOT LOADED and MANUAL SAFETY IS ON)
Below: Two hand grip - finger off trigger
Below: Finger on trigger again to show space between right index finger and right side of grip. About 1/4 tp 3/8 inch of space when finger rests on trigger.
Post continued below...pic limit is 4.
4
below: Left side of grip - basically that's my thumb placement.
![]()
Below: Three one-handed grip shots. Gun is still unloaded but manual safety is off to provide some tension to the trigger when I rested my finger on it.
![]()
![]()
![]()
Please provide any input you can. Thanks in advance to everyone.
Dan
Below: Three one-handed grip shots. Gun is still unloaded but manual safety is off to provide some tension to the trigger when I rested my finger on it.
Please provide any input you can. Thanks in advance to everyone.
Dan
Picture two and four look like your index finger is resting along side the slide with no space between the two.
Picture eight looks like you have quite a bit of space between the trigger finger and the side of the slide.
Can you explain the difference in those photos? Are you gripping the gun differently? Positioning the trigger finger differently on the trigger between them?
BTW--very nice pics sir
Brownie
Picture eight looks like you have quite a bit of space between the trigger finger and the side of the slide.
Can you explain the difference in those photos? Are you gripping the gun differently? Positioning the trigger finger differently on the trigger between them?
BTW--very nice pics sir
Brownie
Can you explain the difference in those photos? Are you gripping the gun differently? Positioning the trigger finger differently on the trigger between them?
BTW--very nice pics sir
Brownie
I'm pretty sure the difference is shadow and angle of the photo. since your post above, I've picked up and put down the gun about a dozen times to see where my hand goes to grip it. The most realistic representation is in picture 8. The only thing I can think is that if I place my finger on the trigger at a point just before the first joint/crease beigns to rest on the trigger, my finger might sit a bit closer to the slide. But when I fire I try to pull the trigger with the center of my finger-pad sort of right behind where the cuticle of the nail is. And when I place my finger there and look down from directly above the extractor/loaded chamer indicator, I can see my middle finger of my right hand through a space created by the second joint of my index finger being bent outward. So pic 8 seems to be the most accurate.
And the pics are good because:
a. my wife takes good pics...and
b. Because we have a 1-inch square piece of toilet paper taped over the flash. It's amazing how it diffuses the light and gives better pics. The camera is a Kodak z650 or something. it's 6 megapixels.
Thanks.
Dan
If picture 8 is the best representation of the space between the gun slide and your trigger finger, your hand is not too small for that gun Dan.
I do tend to hit a bit low and left of what i'm firing at
Try the thumbs locked down instead of flagged thumbs, equal pressure between both hands [ as hard as you are gripping the gun with your shooting hand, the same pressure from the support hand.
I just had a student Friday morning that was doing the same thing with flagged thumbs and when he tried the thumbs locked down with equal pressure, he stopped shooting low and left.
You could also be anticipating and pushing, and in that case, I'd suggest locking the elbows out so you can't push any further on the gun as see if that solves the issue.
Let us know what how you make out.
Brownie
I do tend to hit a bit low and left of what i'm firing at
Try the thumbs locked down instead of flagged thumbs, equal pressure between both hands [ as hard as you are gripping the gun with your shooting hand, the same pressure from the support hand.
I just had a student Friday morning that was doing the same thing with flagged thumbs and when he tried the thumbs locked down with equal pressure, he stopped shooting low and left.
You could also be anticipating and pushing, and in that case, I'd suggest locking the elbows out so you can't push any further on the gun as see if that solves the issue.
Let us know what how you make out.
Brownie
Some fine advice here, Dan.
One thing that has not been mentioned (my apologies if I missed it)...
With a new shooter, that '7 o'clock drop (low left)' can often times be attributed to milking the grip during the process of squeezing the trigger (as well as pushing in recoil anticipation as mentioned by Brownie). By this I mean the entire hand contracts in a sympathetic response to the trigger finger moving rearwards.
This is where learned 'trigger control' comes into play. Use your dry-fire practice to isolate that trigger press motion so that only your finger is moving during the process, not your whole hand.
You can practice this by holding the gun in your strong hand only, using just your thumb and middle finger to hold the gun. Take your ring finger and pinky off the grip entirely (yeah, it's going to feel like you have no control, but you do).
Practice with this grip until you are satisfied that you can pull that DA trigger using only your trigger finger....then you can start wrapping your other appendages around the grip again.
Isolating the trigger press motion can make a whole bunch of problems go away. When I start getting the slops (like I have now), I'll do this dry-fire and live fire for a couple of sessions until I'm sure that trigger pull is not the issue.
HTH
One thing that has not been mentioned (my apologies if I missed it)...
With a new shooter, that '7 o'clock drop (low left)' can often times be attributed to milking the grip during the process of squeezing the trigger (as well as pushing in recoil anticipation as mentioned by Brownie). By this I mean the entire hand contracts in a sympathetic response to the trigger finger moving rearwards.
This is where learned 'trigger control' comes into play. Use your dry-fire practice to isolate that trigger press motion so that only your finger is moving during the process, not your whole hand.
You can practice this by holding the gun in your strong hand only, using just your thumb and middle finger to hold the gun. Take your ring finger and pinky off the grip entirely (yeah, it's going to feel like you have no control, but you do).
Practice with this grip until you are satisfied that you can pull that DA trigger using only your trigger finger....then you can start wrapping your other appendages around the grip again.
Isolating the trigger press motion can make a whole bunch of problems go away. When I start getting the slops (like I have now), I'll do this dry-fire and live fire for a couple of sessions until I'm sure that trigger pull is not the issue.
HTH
Rvrctyrngr,
If milking the grip is found to be the issue, and it very well may be as you suggest, I'd recommend a convulsive grip be used with the thumbs locked down instead of flagged thumbs as the pictures demostrate.
The tighter you squeeze the gun, the more you isolate the trigger finger from that issue.
Brownie
If milking the grip is found to be the issue, and it very well may be as you suggest, I'd recommend a convulsive grip be used with the thumbs locked down instead of flagged thumbs as the pictures demostrate.
The tighter you squeeze the gun, the more you isolate the trigger finger from that issue.
Brownie
Rivr and brownie, thanks for the ideas and advice. I'm just a bit confued as to what you mean by my thumbs being locked down instead of flagged. Does this refer to my thumbs outstretched like pnnants or flags? Should I bend the thumbs? Please try to describe it or provide a picture for reference. And what is a convulsive grip?
Locking the elbows, isolating the trigger finger, and equal pressure on both sides of the grip...all that I got. I'll work on that this Thursday, and if you can clear me up on the thumbs thing I'll give you a full report after the range.
Thanks again.
Dan
Locking the elbows, isolating the trigger finger, and equal pressure on both sides of the grip...all that I got. I'll work on that this Thursday, and if you can clear me up on the thumbs thing I'll give you a full report after the range.
Thanks again.
Dan
If you would have read this you would have understood what the difference is..here it is again.. http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/index.html The pics of your grip are "Thumbs Flagged"..
Attachments
-
25.6 KB Views: 98 -
24.5 KB Views: 92
Thanks to both of you. Sorry I missed that link earlier. I read this forum at work most of the time and I'm often very busy. I'll try the locked down thumbs at the range.
Dan
Dan
Dan,
Equal pressure from both hands. As hard as you are gripping the gun with the shooting hand, keep the same pressure on the other hand. Convulsive grip [ like a crush grip ] but not so hard the gun or hands shake.
That will isolate the trigger finger. Don't anticipate the recoil, let the gun do it's job, your job is to keep the gun on threat until it fires. Let us know how that works for you.
Brownie
Equal pressure from both hands. As hard as you are gripping the gun with the shooting hand, keep the same pressure on the other hand. Convulsive grip [ like a crush grip ] but not so hard the gun or hands shake.
That will isolate the trigger finger. Don't anticipate the recoil, let the gun do it's job, your job is to keep the gun on threat until it fires. Let us know how that works for you.
Brownie
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Florida Concealed Carry
A forum community dedicated to Florida’s concealed firearm owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about every day carry, optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Top Contributors this Month
View All
brownie
271 Replies
7.62Kolectr
127 Replies
Lautermilch
123 Replies
Recommended Communities
