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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today I was looking for a 22 LR J frame because of the expense of .38 ammo to practice frequently and in the gun store I saw a 22 LR conversion for a P226. I currently have a P226 and had not carried it because I thought it to be very uncomfortable because of the size. A good samaritan in the store talked me into trying an Uncle Mike's Nylon IWB holster with one of their guns and it fit quite comfortably. Needless to say I have added one more holster to my collection but today I actually wore the gun and found it to be reasonably comfortable. Does anyone have any experience CCW this pistol?

Any advice?

Thanks
 

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Evening,

I carried a 226 on duty for three years, then moved to the 228 [ it's somewhat smaller brother ] for a couple more years. That was back 91-94 with the 226, no rail version from W. Germany.

Great gun/s, both of them. I would choose to carry it in this guys holster over the Uncle Mikes, it would conceal better IMO.

http://www.gun-holsters.com/h_pages/pancake_auto.html

If you don't like the pancakes, this one would be minimalist for the 226 as well.

http://www.gun-holsters.com/h_pages/belt_slide.html

Brownie
 

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I am a small arms instructor in the US Navy, I teach folks on a daily basis to use Sig's similar to the 226. The 228 (M11 in the military P228 a little more compact version of the 226). It is preferred as a defensive only weapon for non law enforcement/security duties (it is authorized for law enforcement/security duties but rarely picked by personnel in those capacities in my experience), over the M-9 due to the fact that it has no safety. It does have a de-cocking safety mechanism but not an actual safety that you have to put into the fire position. I like the weapon it does very well and I have never seen any mechanical failures, only shooter induced failures. As far as carrying the weapon for concealment, PERSONALLY, It would not be my first choice (for personal use I prefer Glock firearms), PROFESSIONALLY I cannot say anything bad about the weapon that could not be said for other firearms of it's class/use/purpose. It would come down to a personal choice I would think and to be honest I think it's a good firearm for personal defense. I just like a little bit more mass for my personal defense use then a 9mm can provide. (There is no right or wrong answer for caliber selection in my experience, almost all will get the job done placed in the right areas.)

Its size is not that extremely large for concealment purposes in my opinion.

Like any other firearm, make sure you train yourself to draw from that holster, make sure you have explicit training in the two trigger pulls, Personally I would carry the firearm in a true condition 1 fashion (Magazine Inserted, Round in the Chamber, Safety or De-cocking mechanism actuated.) That first shot, the trigger pull can be a little tricky, but I'm sure you knew that!

PS - Don't forget the Chemical Cocktail, the OODA loop, and the snap caps.

Just my .02 cents.

Very respectfully,

Kludo.
 

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Hey sorry about that ..

Don't forget the Chemical Cocktail, the OODA loop, and the snap caps.


The chemical cocktail is sometimes referred to as the adrenalin dump. That is the different chemicals your body dumps when it is in a fight or flight situation. Especially when the mind knows it is in survival mode, many other issues can arise when this comes into play including, the manifestation of time slowing, auditory exclusion, and tunnel vision. Condition your body, train your mind, in short.

The OODA loop means to Observe what is happening, Orient on the situation or understand it (filter it), Decide what to do about the situation, and then Act on the situation, and it is considered a loop because you should be constantly performing these actions. Some instructors use other acronyms or ways of expressing this decision making break down, but this one is still a very good technique especially under high stress.

Snap Caps are excellent training aids, they force you to learn to perform remedial action for an unexpected stoppage. I cannot stress how important remedial action, reload, and dry fire drills are. I also cannot stress how important it is to make sure your being trained properly, proper practice equals precision, sloppy practice equals bad habits.

Very Respectfully,

Kludo.
 

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My primary carry is a full size 1911 .45 in a milt sparks VMII however I occasionally am required to carry a 9mm and when I do it's my P226 in a Kramer vertical scabbard.

 

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P226

While working w/ my brother in his gun shop, I would often carry my P226 or P220. I wore them in either a rig I built or a Kramber BScab. I enjoyed carrying it, to a degree; it has to be placed over my kidneys for me to enjoy carrying it. That wasn't fun when I was driving home or seated, doing paperwork.
I eventually went to an IWB, similar to the VMII (no mouth reinforcement) and wore it at the 3... I enjoyed it much more w/ that.

Ironically, I was just discussing the new .22 conversion w/ my brother before I saw this post. He stated it was probably one of the best on the market. He has not heard of any poor reports on same.
 

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Any further experience with the Sig ? Did you find something you like better or decide to stick with it ? What about the 22LR conversion? Just curious!


Kludo
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Done Deal

Today I went to the range and coughed up the 299.00 dlls for the conversion kit. That part was a bit painful but shooting 200 rounds with my carry gun for 12 dlls eased the pain a little bit. As far a carrying the Sig, I have done it a few times and it felt good. Lately I have been carrying my J frame because I just got my Crossbreed Supertuck for it. Now I am going to have to get one for the Sig.

This CCW is certanly not cheap.
 

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drbarbara,

Congratulations on the 22 conversion, I assume it ran fine as you didn't mention any problems. You'll be saving money using that now and in short order it will pay for itself.

Brownie
 

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drbarbara... I use to to carry a SigPro in .357sig, my point? I just went "up" to a FNP-45. I am a true believer that what ever you carry, it all has to do with the holster and belt. If you do good on those 2 things, you will be fine carrying the 226. Myself I found I shoot so much better with a "longer" gun, the sight radius mean everything to me. You have to be 100% happy with your carry gun. If you shoot "ok' with a J frame, but shoot "great" with the 226, the 226 is what you should have on your side.

drbarbara,

Congratulations on the 22 conversion, I assume it ran fine as you didn't mention any problems. You'll be saving money using that now and in short order it will pay for itself.

Brownie
I thought about the .22 kits for a long time, I even was thinking my next carry weapon would need a 22 kit available for it. But I dropped the thought after more thinking. There is many reason why, 2 of them for "me" is...

1... I want my carry weapon to have the full impact (kick if you will) when firing. Shooting a 22 kit just wont be the same as firing one of the bigger rounds, 32, 380 9, 40 357sig 45 and so on. In other words to much training on 2 different guns IMHO.

2... Really how much do you save by spending $300+ for one of the kits in ammo cost when comparing to your full load round? Now I don't know what drbarbara is shooting for the carry round in the 226, but lets just use a 9mm for an example. If it cost $15 (in the middle range for FMJ) per 50, then you would have to buy 20 boxes (1,000 rounds) just to make up for the 22 kit. Now just think of the savings that could be in hand if buying a "case" of a 1,000 rounds of 9mm ($225-250 per case). Then on top of that you are still buying the .22s as well (yes very cheap, but still buying them). Now the thought is this, how long would it take you to shoot 1000+ rounds of 9mm to pay for the .22 kit? (Note... my math could be so/so on my figures ;) , but I am sure you get my point)

Now with above said, I have a different thought if I was going to buy a .22 firing pistol for blinking/hunting small game. In that case, sure, it makes sense to get the conversion to a point... Your still not "really" shooting your carry gun with shooting the smaller .22, but at least you will get "trigger" time with your carry gun.

I am not saying my reasons to not get a .22 kit are right, but for "me" they are justified and IMHO only.

All in all... Please, still have many rounds fired with your full powered carry load when using a .22 kit on your carry weapon.
 

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MrSteve,

1... I want my carry weapon to have the full impact (kick if you will) when firing. Shooting a 22 kit just wont be the same as firing one of the bigger rounds, 32, 380 9, 40 357sig 45 and so on. In other words to much training on 2 different guns IMHO.

I agree, the actual firing of the 22 conversion won't be the same where recoil is concerned. What I've found will be the same while using my 22 conversion is:

1. the trigger work developing speed.

2. developing your draw stroke speed to first shot

3. practice and therefore further development of the appropriate proprioceptors [ http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1173 ] in your shoulder, upper arm, forearm, wrist [ http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1142 ] and fingers

4. saving money while doing all the above

2... Really how much do you save by spending $300+ for one of the kits in ammo cost when comparing to your full load round? Now I don't know what drbarbara is shooting for the carry round in the 226, but lets just use a 9mm for an example. If it cost $15 (in the middle range for FMJ) per 50, then you would have to buy 20 boxes (1,000 rounds) just to make up for the 22 kit. Now just think of the savings that could be in hand if buying a "case" of a 1,000 rounds of 9mm ($225-250 per case). Then on top of that you are still buying the .22s as well (yes very cheap, but still buying them). Now the thought is this, how long would it take you to shoot 1000+ rounds of 9mm to pay for the .22 kit? (Note... my math could be so/so on my figures , but I am sure you get my point)

I agree, many may not see a financial benefit/savings in the purchase of a 22 conversion kit for several years and perhaps not at all. For those people, the added cost of a conversion kit may be financially irresponsible.

Where I see the benefit in savings is:

1 Case of 9mm [ 1000 rds ]= $162.00 delivered
1000 rounds of 22lr = $ 39.00 locally

That works out to a savings of $123.00 per 1000 rounds fired with the conversion. At that rate, I would break even for the conversion expense, to include the purchase of the 22lr ammo after firing 3000 rounds.

After the first 3000 rounds fired, I'd save $123.00 per 1000 rounds fired over my practice 9mm ammo. I've fired in the neighborhood of 30-50,000 rounds a year for the last 20+ years.

I wouldn't think exclusive practice with the 22 would be wise, so lets think about using the 22 conversion for 25% of the practice and training. At 30,000 rounds, that would be 7500 rds in 22lr. At a savings of $123.00 per 1000, I could save 922.50 a year with just 25% of the practice allotted to the 22 conversion.

The annual $922.50 savings with the conversion would then be able to buy 5694 extra rounds of 9mm [ 5.694 cases ], lets call it 6 extra cases of ammo per year. Putting just the savings back into 9mm ammo, in the last 20 years I could have out away 120,000 rounds of 9mm or shot 120,000 more rounds of 9mm at a cost of zero out of pocket expenses.

That would have worked out to $18,450.00 over just 20 years in my own circumstances. $18,450.00 at a nominal 5% investment rate over 20 years would extrapolate to somewhere around $40,000 saving in two decades. That buys one hell of a nice car, or somewhere around 60-80 new guns, for free on money saved [ not spent ] on just 9mm to practice with.

If we shoot other calibers, the savings is even greater and the return on investment is quite a bit shorter.

I'd still have fired 75% of the time using standard ammunition where the recoil is concerned, and been able to shoot another 6000 rounds a year with full recoil ammo for free.

I understand not everyone is going to shoot 30-50K of ammo a year, so lets take these figures and work them down to just 5000 rounds a year [ that is only 2 boxes of ammo a week ]. That would mean a person could save $153.75 a year on 9mm ammo, or be able to shoot another 900+ rounds a year for free with the savings only using the conversion kit 25% of the time. That's like shooting a case of regular 9mm ammo a year for free. At that rate, it will take just two years to pay for the conversion kit with the savings.

If we take all of the above monetary figures and throw it out, looking only at the benefit of being able to shoot more for the same money, we are advancing our skills, developing our eye/hand coordination along with trigger work and draw stroke for next to nothing on a regular basis. On top of that, one would probably shoot more overall on a regular basis, and that benefit can't be overstated enough in skills development.

In the end, you may be right with your own analysis for you. If you don't shoot much at all, the savings will be minimal and the return on investment will be negligible. On the other hand, the investment in a 22 conversion might allow you to shoot more and therefore become more proficient in certain aspects of your shooting prowess. Not in the recoil management aspect as you mentioned, but in other areas equally important to surviving on the streets.

Brownie
 

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Well with those numbers (shot fired per year)... I can see where it would pay for itself many times over. Wow that is a lot of shooting.
 

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I'm a firearms trainer, I keep 40K+ in 9mm stored, students coming out here for one on one training will run through anywhere between 2500-3500 rounds in two days along with my own 1K in that time just demonstrating the skills for a total of no less than 3500, and perhaps 4500 rounds downrange in two days [ that's 10% of the stocked 9mm in a weekend ].

I'll practice once a week with anywhere from 400-600 rds in a few hours on the morning, and use another 150 every Tuesday night at the steel match, and that's 650-700 rds a week without the training ammo with students I run through.

There's an old saying that goes like this:

If you don't shoot, you can't shoot

25% of the shooting using a 22 conversion on the glock 17 has saved me a lot of money since I've been using it.

Brownie
 
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