I don't think there is a specific list of what constitutes grievous bodily harm, I think it comes down to the facts of the event. As for me, I take it as anything that could cause a serious wound (gun, sword, knife, spear, cleaver, axe, etc.), anything that could cause serious head trauma (cinder block, brick, bat, club, hammer, etc.), anything that could cause severe burns (gasoline, acid, scalding hot liquids, etc.) or anything that could cause an immediate or near-immediate incapacitation that would leave me unable to defend against further attack (broken limbs or being struck by a MV for example). Any of those don't necessarily mean a threat of death, but certainly could result in death or a serious, life-altering injury. Things like age difference of attacker to defender and disparity of force (gang attack versus 1:1) certainly come into play, but I don't think they're automatic. I don't think being surrounded by 5 9-yr-olds would cut it but 5 gang bangers carrying an assortment of knives, clubs, or more definitely would cross the line. Gangs travel in packs just for the intimidation factor, so I don't think it's unreasonable to figure they aren't selling girl scout cookies but are a danger and act on it. YMMV.
Define grievous bodily harm
Sometimes referred to grave bodily harm.
When does either rise to the level of a deadly force response. Is the mere possibility to cause grave bodily harm due to disparity of age, agility/mobility automatically trigger a deadly force response?
When does either rise to the level of a deadly force response. Is the mere possibility to cause grave bodily harm due to disparity of age, agility/mobility automatically trigger a deadly force response?
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I said it before and I'll say it again.
I can't run.
I can't fight
BUT
I can shoot straight all day long.
I can't run.
I can't fight
BUT
I can shoot straight all day long.
It's been defined in law. But you're on the right track.I don't think there is a specific list of what constitutes grievous bodily harm, I think it comes down to the facts of the event. As for me, I take it as anything that could cause a serious wound (gun, sword, knife, spear, cleaver, axe, etc.), anything that could cause serious head trauma (cinder block, brick, bat, club, hammer, etc.), anything that could cause severe burns (gasoline, acid, scalding hot liquids, etc.) or anything that could cause an immediate or near-immediate incapacitation that would leave me unable to defend against further attack (broken limbs or being struck by a MV for example). Any of those don't necessarily mean a threat of death, but certainly could result in death or a serious, life-altering injury. Things like age difference of attacker to defender and disparity of force (gang attack versus 1:1) certainly come into play, but I don't think they're automatic. I don't think being surrounded by 5 9-yr-olds would cut it but 5 gang bangers carrying an assortment of knives, clubs, or more definitely would cross the line. Gangs travel in packs just for the intimidation factor, so I don't think it's unreasonable to figure they aren't selling girl scout cookies but are a danger and act on it. YMMV.
10 USC § 920(g)(4)
(4)The term “grievous bodily harm” means serious bodily injury. It includes fractured or dislocated bones, deep cuts, torn members of the body, serious damage to internal organs, and other severe bodily injuries. It does not include minor injuries such as a black eye or a bloody nose.
That list you posted are all instruments that can be used to create grave bodily harm, but their mere presence, would they rise to a the level of deadly force response. Even if there's a large disparity of force, there has to be other articulable elements in play
Well hot damn, I was planning to reply once I got back online that I didn't need to define it because it's defined by the law. However, now that I'm back online, I see you beat me to it. 🤠It's been defined in law. But you're on the right track.
10 USC § 920(g)(4)
(4)The term “grievous bodily harm” means serious bodily injury. It includes fractured or dislocated bones, deep cuts, torn members of the body, serious damage to internal organs, and other severe bodily injuries. It does not include minor injuries such as a black eye or a bloody nose.
That list you posted are all instruments that can be used to create grave bodily harm, but their mere presence, would they rise to a the level of deadly force response. Even if there's a large disparity of force, there has to be other articulable elements in play
Our FL statutes (790) refers to it as great bodily harm, but doesn't define the term. I'm wondering if, in a state case dealing with application of deadly force, the state courts are going to look to the Code of Federal Regulations under a rape regulation for a definition or are they going to weigh the evidence and decide if the factors presented rise to GBH or not?
Or look to other states laws where that exact term is used as in this case.Our FL statutes (790) refers to it as great bodily harm, but doesn't define the term. I'm wondering if, in a state case dealing with application of deadly force, the state courts are going to look to the Code of Federal Regulations under a rape regulation for a definition or are they going to weigh the evidence and decide if the factors presented rise to GBH or not?
9A.42.010
"(c) "Great bodily harm" means bodily injury which creates a high probability of death, or which causes serious permanent disfigurement, or which causes a permanent or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily part or organ."
Grave bodily harm seems to be defined a little differently
A sudden unforeseen crisis (usually involving danger) that requires immediate action
Synonym of grave is grievous, but the word great isn't. Thus, I believe one would have to look at case law in Fla. to determine what the court deems great bodily harm.
I am reaching an age and have suffered enough prior injury where a solid object isn't necessary to do permanent damage or grave injury...if one poses a threat it reaches those levels immediately for me...if you threaten to invade my space with violence I will return with all of hells fury to stop you...I'll take my chances with written word...
In my mind, when the seriously threatening “activity” includes me; it damn sure will. 👍Sometimes referred to grave bodily harm.
When does either rise to the level of a deadly force response. Is the mere possibility to cause grave bodily harm due to disparity of age, agility/mobility automatically trigger a deadly force response?
I think Rick makes a good point here. Something that I wouldn't have taken as a potential threat of GBH years ago might now be perceived as just that. Age catches up to us all, and I know I no longer have the capacity to engage in a protracted session of what Johnny Cash called, "a-kickin' and a-gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer." Now I'm more of the mindset that my safety depends more on being alert and watching body language for signs of aggression so I can avoid it, and it's made me think more about raising my own level of aggression in opening response in hopes of deciding the fight more quickly. More and more the idea of a best defense as not being there sounds more appealing then spending the afternoon applying ice packs because I let my brain convince me I was still 30 and would have no problem dusting off some dirt bag who sorely needed it.
Not long ago I was out in the back forty doing some yard work, trimming bushes with the trimmer and from rubbing up against all those sticks for a couple hours my forearm ended up looking like I'd been attacked by a mountain lion. I walked in the house completely unaware my whole arm was bloody until the wife started screaming at me "what happened to you?" Nothing really, just skin gets more thin and fragile as we age. So I think about what my arm might look like if I had to engage some punk on the street who wants to wail on me. The ol' armor just ain't as good as it used to be. So when I'm in the moment where I have to consider am I about to be subject to GBH, the trigger level is much lower now that it used to be.
Not long ago I was out in the back forty doing some yard work, trimming bushes with the trimmer and from rubbing up against all those sticks for a couple hours my forearm ended up looking like I'd been attacked by a mountain lion. I walked in the house completely unaware my whole arm was bloody until the wife started screaming at me "what happened to you?" Nothing really, just skin gets more thin and fragile as we age. So I think about what my arm might look like if I had to engage some punk on the street who wants to wail on me. The ol' armor just ain't as good as it used to be. So when I'm in the moment where I have to consider am I about to be subject to GBH, the trigger level is much lower now that it used to be.
Times have change as far as aggressors/attackers are concerned! Used to be a couple fists thrown and that was it, for the most part! Now, seems like they want to knock people out/kill them/permanently damage them and make sure it gets recorded so they can be youtube stars! Ain’t gonna let it happen to me if possible! And like OHEng, I ain’t 30 no mo and will take actions to prevent my (or my family’s) body from being injured, if at all possible!
I don't think there is a much better thing to own and keep with you at all times including inside and outside of your own home then a North American Arms 22LR.
WHY ????
Because most people do not carry the gun they use to carry out & about while at home.
The N.N.A. 22lr. could even be in your sock if you have no pockets or naked with just one sock on.
This tiny 22 is still better then no gun at all.
Ronnie
WHY ????
Because most people do not carry the gun they use to carry out & about while at home.
The N.N.A. 22lr. could even be in your sock if you have no pockets or naked with just one sock on.
This tiny 22 is still better then no gun at all.
Ronnie
There are a few things Brownie teaches that will help in 'not being able to withstand a long drawn out fight'. Actually, a person can end it very quickly. The skills are very good if a person goes into the class with an open mind, ready to learn. Aperson does not need to be young or physically fit either. I know, I took this class. I also know that some of the skills learned stop an attack very quickly. Ihope Brownie does at least one more. Even more so, I hope someone will step up and get set up to continue to teach these skills when the time comes that Brownie no longer can.I think Rick makes a good point here. Something that I wouldn't have taken as a potential threat of GBH years ago might now be perceived as just that. Age catches up to us all, and I know I no longer have the capacity to engage in a protracted session of what Johnny Cash called, "a-kickin' and a-gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer." Now I'm more of the mindset that my safety depends more on being alert and watching body language for signs of aggression so I can avoid it, and it's made me think more about raising my own level of aggression in opening response in hopes of deciding the fight more quickly. More and more the idea of a best defense as not being there sounds more appealing then spending the afternoon applying ice packs because I let my brain convince me I was still 30 and would have no problem dusting off some dirt bag who sorely needed it.
Not long ago I was out in the back forty doing some yard work, trimming bushes with the trimmer and from rubbing up against all those sticks for a couple hours my forearm ended up looking like I'd been attacked by a mountain lion. I walked in the house completely unaware my whole arm was bloody until the wife started screaming at me "what happened to you?" Nothing really, just skin gets more thin and fragile as we age. So I think about what my arm might look like if I had to engage some punk on the street who wants to wail on me. The ol' armor just ain't as good as it used to be. So when I'm in the moment where I have to consider am I about to be subject to GBH, the trigger level is much lower now that it used to be.
We were taught skills that ended altercations of various flavors in 1-1.5 seconds. The mindset of the mentors was if you can't end an altercation in that time, you're using the wrong skill set.There are a few things Brownie teaches that will help in 'not being able to withstand a long drawn out fight'. Actually, a person can end it very quickly. The skills are very good if a person goes into the class with an open mind, ready to learn. Aperson does not need to be young or physically fit either. I know, I took this class. I also know that some of the skills learned stop an attack very quickly. Ihope Brownie does at least one more. Even more so, I hope someone will step up and get set up to continue to teach these skills when the time comes that Brownie no longer can.
Most of the skills can be lethal if applied with enough force, like the Y hand to the throat. One of my favorite strikes as it comes from below and thus isn't telegraphed.
In the blade training, we were given skills to end the fray in the same time frame. Seems many of my older mentors had the same mindset. I've been heard telling students "I don't dance", they understand that suggests it's over before you hear the music start and have a chance to dance.
As in more than one attacker. The first one gets 'full house' if you will since a person would not want to have to worry about that one getting back into the fray. then move on as needed. And yes, you taught how to do that.We were taught skills that ended altercations of various flavors in 1-1.5 seconds. The mindset of the mentors was if you can't end an altercation in that time, you're using the wrong skill set.
Most of the skills can be lethal if applied with enough force, like the Y hand to the throat. One of my favorite strikes as it comes from below and thus isn't telegraphed.
At my age and physical condition, if I don't have it ended in just a few seconds, it will quite likely end me, to the tune of grievous bodily harm or worse. Any assault or pre-assaultive behavior by a younger, stronger assailant will immediately put me in reasonable, articulable fear for my life.We were taught skills that ended altercations of various flavors in 1-1.5 seconds. The mindset of the mentors was if you can't end an altercation in that time, you're using the wrong skill set.
Most of the skills can be lethal if applied with enough force, like the Y hand to the throat. One of my favorite strikes as it comes from below and thus isn't telegraphed.
And you know what Mike, as I've reached old man status, I'm so thankful to have the skills the mentors gave us 40+ years ago today. We needed them then due to the assignments, now I need them because anything that lasts more than a few seconds [ like you mention ] may result in my running out of gas.At my age and physical condition, if I don't have it ended in just a few seconds, it will quite likely end me, to the tune of grievous bodily harm or worse. Any assault or pre-assaultive behavior by a younger, stronger assailant will immediately put me in reasonable, articulable fear for my life.
Last thing you want is to run out of gas when you've got miles to go before you sleep.
If it involves 2 or more, the first one who feels the pain is unlikely to get back up, and might be unlucky enough to never get back up.As in more than one attacker. The first one gets 'full house' if you will since a person would not want to have to worry about that one getting back into the fray. then move on as needed. And yes, you taught how to do that.
Throat strikes and neck snaps would seem to be the order of the day on the first turd, get the odds a little more even.
That's one of the good things about Florida Statutes providing for "reclassification of offenses" and enhanced "minimum sentences" for those convicted of committing aggravated assault or aggravated battery upon a person 65 years of age or older (e.g., see f.s. Chapter 784.08):I think Rick makes a good point here. Something that I wouldn't have taken as a potential threat of GBH years ago might now be perceived as just that. Age catches up to us all, and I know I no longer have the capacity to engage in a protracted session of what Johnny Cash called, "a-kickin' and a-gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer." Now I'm more of the mindset that my safety depends more on being alert and watching body language for signs of aggression so I can avoid it, and it's made me think more about raising my own level of aggression in opening response in hopes of deciding the fight more quickly. More and more the idea of a best defense as not being there sounds more appealing then spending the afternoon applying ice packs because I let my brain convince me I was still 30 and would have no problem dusting off some dirt bag who sorely needed it.
Not long ago I was out in the back forty doing some yard work, trimming bushes with the trimmer and from rubbing up against all those sticks for a couple hours my forearm ended up looking like I'd been attacked by a mountain lion. I walked in the house completely unaware my whole arm was bloody until the wife started screaming at me "what happened to you?" Nothing really, just skin gets more thin and fragile as we age. So I think about what my arm might look like if I had to engage some punk on the street who wants to wail on me. The ol' armor just ain't as good as it used to be. So when I'm in the moment where I have to consider am I about to be subject to GBH, the trigger level is much lower now that it used to be.
784.08 Assault or battery on persons 65 years of age or older; reclassification of offenses; minimum sentence.—
(1) A person who is convicted of an aggravated assault or aggravated battery upon a person 65 years of age or older shall be sentenced to a minimum term of imprisonment of 3 years and fined not more than $10,000 and shall also be ordered by the sentencing judge to make restitution to the victim of such offense and to perform up to 500 hours of community service work. Restitution and community service work shall be in addition to any fine or sentence which may be imposed and shall not be in lieu thereof.
(2) Whenever a person is charged with committing an assault or aggravated assault or a battery or aggravated battery upon a person 65 years of age or older, regardless of whether he or she knows or has reason to know the age of the victim, the offense for which the person is charged shall be reclassified as follows:
(a) In the case of aggravated battery, from a felony of the second degree to a felony of the first degree.
(b) In the case of aggravated assault, from a felony of the third degree to a felony of the second degree.
(c) In the case of battery, from a misdemeanor of the first degree to a felony of the third degree.
(d) In the case of assault, from a misdemeanor of the second degree to a misdemeanor of the first degree.
(3) Notwithstanding the provisions of s. 948.01, adjudication of guilt or imposition of sentence shall not be suspended, deferred, or withheld.
History.—s. 1, ch. 89-327; s. 1, ch. 92-50; s. 18, ch. 93-406; s. 1200, ch. 97-102; s. 19, ch. 97-194; s. 5, ch. 99-188; s. 1, ch. 2002-208.
My epiphany came some 20 years ago after the doctor reviewing my MRI looked at me and said; “you know, you could blow a disc just getting out of bed in the morning.”
Then you add in the other “stuff” and it’s not a stretch to say that such attacks could, at the very least, leave me in a wheel chair and permanently crippled for the rest of my life, if they don’t kill me.
One could say that I take assholes (those of poor character and deportment) and threats very seriously….
Then you add in the other “stuff” and it’s not a stretch to say that such attacks could, at the very least, leave me in a wheel chair and permanently crippled for the rest of my life, if they don’t kill me.
One could say that I take assholes (those of poor character and deportment) and threats very seriously….
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