Where and what might this club be?
Cut the crap-how many rounds do u shoot?
Let's start cutting thruogh the arm chair warriors - how many rounds and how effective is your practise? Understandably, many on the this site have to shoot down rectangular ranges. How can you make that situation as effective as possible and stay within the range rules? Maybe it is time for many on this forum to comsider making the $$$$ sacrifice and joining a real gun club. In other words, who can say they really are able to train in real life, draw from concealed carrry positions? Is it time for you to make a reak commitment and join/drive the distance to a real outdoor club?
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
The point of this thread is a wake up call. It is time for many on this forum to join a club and get engaged in real practise, if possible. /central florida rifle and pistol club in orlando is a great club. I too, train with airsoft.
100-200 rds per week with the local gun club. Draw and fire multiple targets while moving. shooting from cover and open windows, must on occasion open a door or 2. also includes targets that are considered no-shoots, such as hostages, and some steel targets.......john
Not everybody has the $$$$$$$$$$ to fork out for what your saying.Let's start cutting thruogh the arm chair warriors - how many rounds and how effective is your practise? Understandably, many on the this site have to shoot down rectangular ranges. How can you make that situation as effective as possible and stay within the range rules? Maybe it is time for many on this forum to comsider making the $$$$ sacrifice and joining a real gun club. In other words, who can say they really are able to train in real life, draw from concealed carrry positions? Is it time for you to make a reak commitment and join/drive the distance to a real outdoor club?
But I do agree with you about being able to be familiar with your weapons,
especialy those you intend on carrying out in the public. When I carried all the time it worried me that my protection of my own life might cost and innocent bystander theirs!!!! To me thats unexceptable and i guess thats where training stuff and situational stuff comes in...but to pay 400.00 to go to some of these guys classes (as helpful as they may be) is out of my league ,but anybody that can do it; go for it. Just my 2cents..
Heck; im a new guy here what do I know?
ukeGranted, everyone should be familiar with their weapon and shoot as often as possible but this thread sounds more like a p: censoreding contest to me.The point of this thread is a wake up call. It is time for many on this forum to join a club and get engaged in real practise, if possible. /central florida rifle and pistol club in orlando is a great club. I too, train with airsoft.
If you don't spend the $$$ and join a "real gun club" then you are an "armchair warrior"?
How many rounds to you put down range and how often?Let's start cutting thruogh the arm chair warriors - how many rounds and how effective is your practise? Understandably, many on the this site have to shoot down rectangular ranges. How can you make that situation as effective as possible and stay within the range rules? Maybe it is time for many on this forum to comsider making the $$$$ sacrifice and joining a real gun club. In other words, who can say they really are able to train in real life, draw from concealed carrry positions? Is it time for you to make a reak commitment and join/drive the distance to a real outdoor club?
I shoot once a week. I shoot at an FOP range. All types of shooting are a go. Not fancy but you can shoot day or night. You have to have your own stand. Mine has a 4'x4' opening. Within it I place standard targets for target practice and SWAT targets for point shooting; 12' for draw and hip shooting, 21' for two handed eye level point shooting. I also practice one handed strong and weak and off handed two hands. I shoot about 75 rounds a week.
I'm here because I take what we're doing very seriously. I practice there for the same reason. I'd shoot more rounds thru my guns if I could afford it...tough to be poor.
I should be skinnier but I'm not. Should shoot more but I can't.
Most here appear, to me, very intelligent. I don't need to point out the three hundred pound women on the beach in a string bikini, if you get my drift? Though it's a great post and I am interested to hear how others practice too.
Thank you.
I'm here because I take what we're doing very seriously. I practice there for the same reason. I'd shoot more rounds thru my guns if I could afford it...tough to be poor.
I should be skinnier but I'm not. Should shoot more but I can't.
Most here appear, to me, very intelligent. I don't need to point out the three hundred pound women on the beach in a string bikini, if you get my drift? Though it's a great post and I am interested to hear how others practice too.
Thank you.
Sounds like a : censored contest to me too.
If I'm shooting weekly and take a monthly self defense course, was in the military and go to a range every six months to practice in 'under fire' conditions, then I'm taking it more serous than you are.
Look, I lived in CA when I was young, had a Baretta 92F and right or left handed could put all 15 in the orange part of the silhouette at 25' in five seconds.
I went broke and sold my gun for a house payment and food some years ago, finally re-purchased another 92F, hadn't shot in more than two years, picked up the gun, and did the same damn thing.
I don't care how many gun clubs you join, how often you go, how many rounds. You have NO idea how you will act under actual fire, and the shooting range is not going to make you a warrior.
How have you acted under extreme circumstances in the past? Have you been assaulted by multiple individuals and stood your ground? Ran and hid? I'm not asking you to answer to us, just answer that in your mind.
AND IF YOU HID, THAT DOES NOT MAKE YOU A COWARD IF YOU CAN'T FIGHT. It's not about BEING A MAN or tough woman or whatever random thoughts you have about that. Not all people can fight, it doesn't make you less of a person. But think about this, If you saw your friend taking a beating from three men and were too scared to jump in and swing fists to help, that gun will not make you more brave. If you can't stand up to three men watching you're friend take a beating, and if you see someone with a shotgun hold up a convinient store you are in, I don't care if you are carrying nine guns and 400 rnds, you will hit the deck, and possibly not even get a good description of the bd's for LE.
To be honest, if you hands are shaking and you get tunnel vision while under fire, hitting the deck might be best, hell that's why we have LE in the first place, so that everyone does not have to be Clint : censored Eastwood.
But for someone to insinuate that you are taking your 2nd amendment right more seriously than someone else because you are in a club or pull the trigger more... our rights are our rights, and I think dropping the coin on a weapon costing more than my house payment is a pretty serious commitment.
And I shoot weekly, about 200 rnds, though all indoor, still searching for an outdoor place in Brevard, I only started looking last month or so when I was able to re-purchase a firearm after a long hiatus of being broke then unemployed.
Jess
If I'm shooting weekly and take a monthly self defense course, was in the military and go to a range every six months to practice in 'under fire' conditions, then I'm taking it more serous than you are.
Look, I lived in CA when I was young, had a Baretta 92F and right or left handed could put all 15 in the orange part of the silhouette at 25' in five seconds.
I went broke and sold my gun for a house payment and food some years ago, finally re-purchased another 92F, hadn't shot in more than two years, picked up the gun, and did the same damn thing.
I don't care how many gun clubs you join, how often you go, how many rounds. You have NO idea how you will act under actual fire, and the shooting range is not going to make you a warrior.
How have you acted under extreme circumstances in the past? Have you been assaulted by multiple individuals and stood your ground? Ran and hid? I'm not asking you to answer to us, just answer that in your mind.
AND IF YOU HID, THAT DOES NOT MAKE YOU A COWARD IF YOU CAN'T FIGHT. It's not about BEING A MAN or tough woman or whatever random thoughts you have about that. Not all people can fight, it doesn't make you less of a person. But think about this, If you saw your friend taking a beating from three men and were too scared to jump in and swing fists to help, that gun will not make you more brave. If you can't stand up to three men watching you're friend take a beating, and if you see someone with a shotgun hold up a convinient store you are in, I don't care if you are carrying nine guns and 400 rnds, you will hit the deck, and possibly not even get a good description of the bd's for LE.
To be honest, if you hands are shaking and you get tunnel vision while under fire, hitting the deck might be best, hell that's why we have LE in the first place, so that everyone does not have to be Clint : censored Eastwood.
But for someone to insinuate that you are taking your 2nd amendment right more seriously than someone else because you are in a club or pull the trigger more... our rights are our rights, and I think dropping the coin on a weapon costing more than my house payment is a pretty serious commitment.
And I shoot weekly, about 200 rnds, though all indoor, still searching for an outdoor place in Brevard, I only started looking last month or so when I was able to re-purchase a firearm after a long hiatus of being broke then unemployed.
Jess
The point of this thread is a wake up call. It is time for many on this forum to join a club and get engaged in real practise, if possible.
I think Mark has made the above statement with the knowledge that there are a lot of people on this forum who don't expend enough effort to practice, and more importantly to practice realistically.
The main thrust of his post was that the square ranges many shoot at don't allow the skills training that'll help get r done on the streets. Standing on a line and shooting two handed producing tiny little groups on paper only goes so far and isn't going to be very conducive to preparing one for that time one finds themselves "in it" on the street.
That's not a new idea put forth by Mark, but it is something to think about when one has limited funds to begin with. Shouldn't one recognize the square range use shooting tiny little groups two handed isn't really preparing them for battle on the streets?
Knapper,
3 rds a second at 25 feet isn't bad shooting but it might be counter productive and a waste of training funds in ammo and time to practice that type of skill to exclusion instead of the same time spent shooting one handed from the distances normally encountered by the average citizen on the streets which he majority happen in the neighborhood of 10 feet or less. If statistics show a majority of SD shootings happen at less than, say, 12-14 feet and many of those under 8 feet, should we spend the majority of our time shooting at 25 feet? Perhaps it would be wiser to spend a majority of our practice at the distances encountered the majority of time a firearm is used statistically for SD? Does that make sense?
Can you draw and fire that first shot in one second one handed and then continue to fire at 4-5 rds a second one handed COM at 7-12 feet while moving which is more realistic on the streets? Do you practice these types of skills or do you shoot at 25 feet [ an unrealistic distance in the majority of SD shootings ] the majority of the time.
babah,
What do you consider your life is worth? 200? 300? 400? More? Can you put a price on learning the skills necessary to increase your chances of surviving the streets exponentially? I've never been able to come to a conclusion about what price that skills training could cost me if I found myself "in it' one day and didn't have the skills. My own life has always been worth the resources spent at any cost to get the training that will keep me alive on the streets, afterall, I walk the streets and suffer the potential to have to use a firearm I carry in self defense of my person one day. It does me no good to have a firearm if I don't know how to use it as efficiently as possible, wouldn't you agree?
Brownie
I think Mark has made the above statement with the knowledge that there are a lot of people on this forum who don't expend enough effort to practice, and more importantly to practice realistically.
The main thrust of his post was that the square ranges many shoot at don't allow the skills training that'll help get r done on the streets. Standing on a line and shooting two handed producing tiny little groups on paper only goes so far and isn't going to be very conducive to preparing one for that time one finds themselves "in it" on the street.
That's not a new idea put forth by Mark, but it is something to think about when one has limited funds to begin with. Shouldn't one recognize the square range use shooting tiny little groups two handed isn't really preparing them for battle on the streets?
Knapper,
3 rds a second at 25 feet isn't bad shooting but it might be counter productive and a waste of training funds in ammo and time to practice that type of skill to exclusion instead of the same time spent shooting one handed from the distances normally encountered by the average citizen on the streets which he majority happen in the neighborhood of 10 feet or less. If statistics show a majority of SD shootings happen at less than, say, 12-14 feet and many of those under 8 feet, should we spend the majority of our time shooting at 25 feet? Perhaps it would be wiser to spend a majority of our practice at the distances encountered the majority of time a firearm is used statistically for SD? Does that make sense?
Can you draw and fire that first shot in one second one handed and then continue to fire at 4-5 rds a second one handed COM at 7-12 feet while moving which is more realistic on the streets? Do you practice these types of skills or do you shoot at 25 feet [ an unrealistic distance in the majority of SD shootings ] the majority of the time.
babah,
What do you consider your life is worth? 200? 300? 400? More? Can you put a price on learning the skills necessary to increase your chances of surviving the streets exponentially? I've never been able to come to a conclusion about what price that skills training could cost me if I found myself "in it' one day and didn't have the skills. My own life has always been worth the resources spent at any cost to get the training that will keep me alive on the streets, afterall, I walk the streets and suffer the potential to have to use a firearm I carry in self defense of my person one day. It does me no good to have a firearm if I don't know how to use it as efficiently as possible, wouldn't you agree?
Brownie
No.The point of this thread is a wake up call. It is time for many on this forum to join a club and get engaged in real practise, if possible.
Knapper,
Can you draw and fire that first shot in one second one handed and then continue to fire at 4-5 rds a second one handed COM at 7-12 feet while moving which is more realistic on the streets? Do you practice these types of skills or do you shoot at 25 feet [ an unrealistic distance in the majority of SD shootings ] the majority of the time.
Brownie
Even when I draw quick I bring up both hands. I've never timed myself, but I'm sure it's near 1 or 1.5 seconds.
Practice other skills?
No. I stand and shoot at the limited firing ranges mostly for fun and to stay familiar with my weapon.
What does that tell you? Nothing.
Then again, even in training you speak of, it's a controlled environment. Being under fire is different.
The odds are you will have time to assess before you shoot, God I hope you assess before you shoot, so quick draw and fire won't come into play. Unless you are the direct target of attack.
However the title of the thread 'cut the crap' Okay, let's cut the crap, I have been under fire and responded, I know at least one person who was under fire and did not respond out of fear. Cutting the crap? All the training in the world will not give you what it takes to pull the trigger on a human being. When the time comes, you either will, or you wont. All the range time, draw time and walking shooting accuracy will not come into play; you either fight or flight. And if you take a good look at yourself, you can probably know if you will or you wont.
I hear you, respectfully saying, I still think 'cut the crap' was a p: censored g contest, though I do respect your views.
Jess
No.
Even when I draw quick I bring up both hands.
So you don't practice shooting from the holster one handed on the move.
I've never timed myself, but I'm sure it's near 1 or 1.5 seconds.
Practice other skills?
No. I stand and shoot at the limited firing ranges mostly for fun and to stay familiar with my weapon.
What does that tell you? Nothing.
It tells me a lot actually.
Then again, even in training you speak of, it's a controlled environment. Being under fire is different.
Agreed, but it's more realistic than static range practice which amounts to nothing more than target practice.
The odds are you will have time to assess before you shoot
I disagree, attacks happen very quickly on the streets and you should be practicing for every possible scenario and not relying on odds. A well rounded shooter is always more prepared than one who isn't as well rounded in his skills.
I hope you assess before you shoot, so quick draw and fire won't come into play. Unless you are the direct target of attack.
Wouldn't it be wise to train for that scenario and have the skills than to rely on some theoretical idea of odds you won't be a direct target of attack?
I've assessed when I've had the time to assess as well as used instinctive startle responses honed through training when time was short. We've discussed the "hesitation" that can get you killed here quite a bit in other threads. We've also discussed when it's up close and personal, a two handed hold at line of sight is likely going to take too much time when time is of the essence.
I have been under fire and responded, I know at least one person who was under fire and did not respond out of fear.
Which has no bearing on the fact one needs to be well rounded in their skills with a handgun.
All the range time, draw time and walking shooting accuracy will not come into play
I would prefer to not restrict myself to thinking in absolutes, but diligently prepare for every conceivable scenario I might have to work within. It would seem that one can't predict the future events that may happen to any of us.
Brownie
Even when I draw quick I bring up both hands.
So you don't practice shooting from the holster one handed on the move.
I've never timed myself, but I'm sure it's near 1 or 1.5 seconds.
Practice other skills?
No. I stand and shoot at the limited firing ranges mostly for fun and to stay familiar with my weapon.
What does that tell you? Nothing.
It tells me a lot actually.
Then again, even in training you speak of, it's a controlled environment. Being under fire is different.
Agreed, but it's more realistic than static range practice which amounts to nothing more than target practice.
The odds are you will have time to assess before you shoot
I disagree, attacks happen very quickly on the streets and you should be practicing for every possible scenario and not relying on odds. A well rounded shooter is always more prepared than one who isn't as well rounded in his skills.
I hope you assess before you shoot, so quick draw and fire won't come into play. Unless you are the direct target of attack.
Wouldn't it be wise to train for that scenario and have the skills than to rely on some theoretical idea of odds you won't be a direct target of attack?
I've assessed when I've had the time to assess as well as used instinctive startle responses honed through training when time was short. We've discussed the "hesitation" that can get you killed here quite a bit in other threads. We've also discussed when it's up close and personal, a two handed hold at line of sight is likely going to take too much time when time is of the essence.
I have been under fire and responded, I know at least one person who was under fire and did not respond out of fear.
Which has no bearing on the fact one needs to be well rounded in their skills with a handgun.
All the range time, draw time and walking shooting accuracy will not come into play
I would prefer to not restrict myself to thinking in absolutes, but diligently prepare for every conceivable scenario I might have to work within. It would seem that one can't predict the future events that may happen to any of us.
Brownie
Gotcha, thanks for the response.
Through? Practice? Consider? Real? If your shooting skills match your skill sets in spelling, grammar, punctuation, or composition, you have no business in a throw down. Tell you what, I'll invest into a trip to say, Thunder Ranch, Gun Site, Cumberland Tactics, when you commit to reading a book. No one here claims to know everything, want to start over?Let's start cutting thruogh the arm chair warriors - how many rounds and how effective is your practise? Understandably, many on the this site have to shoot down rectangular ranges. How can you make that situation as effective as possible and stay within the range rules? Maybe it is time for many on this forum to comsider making the $$$$ sacrifice and joining a real gun club. In other words, who can say they really are able to train in real life, draw from concealed carrry positions? Is it time for you to make a reak commitment and join/drive the distance to a real outdoor club?
"Cut the crap-how many rounds do u shoot?"
Cut the crap? No one is throwing down any crap. Just trying to educate themselves.
Well said sir, well said!! :clap:clap:clapSounds like a : censored contest to me too.
If I'm shooting weekly and take a monthly self defense course, was in the military and go to a range every six months to practice in 'under fire' conditions, then I'm taking it more serous than you are.
Look, I lived in CA when I was young, had a Baretta 92F and right or left handed could put all 15 in the orange part of the silhouette at 25' in five seconds.
I went broke and sold my gun for a house payment and food some years ago, finally re-purchased another 92F, hadn't shot in more than two years, picked up the gun, and did the same damn thing.
I don't care how many gun clubs you join, how often you go, how many rounds. You have NO idea how you will act under actual fire, and the shooting range is not going to make you a warrior.
How have you acted under extreme circumstances in the past? Have you been assaulted by multiple individuals and stood your ground? Ran and hid? I'm not asking you to answer to us, just answer that in your mind.
AND IF YOU HID, THAT DOES NOT MAKE YOU A COWARD IF YOU CAN'T FIGHT. It's not about BEING A MAN or tough woman or whatever random thoughts you have about that. Not all people can fight, it doesn't make you less of a person. But think about this, If you saw your friend taking a beating from three men and were too scared to jump in and swing fists to help, that gun will not make you more brave. If you can't stand up to three men watching you're friend take a beating, and if you see someone with a shotgun hold up a convinient store you are in, I don't care if you are carrying nine guns and 400 rnds, you will hit the deck, and possibly not even get a good description of the bd's for LE.
To be honest, if you hands are shaking and you get tunnel vision while under fire, hitting the deck might be best, hell that's why we have LE in the first place, so that everyone does not have to be Clint : censored Eastwood.
But for someone to insinuate that you are taking your 2nd amendment right more seriously than someone else because you are in a club or pull the trigger more... our rights are our rights, and I think dropping the coin on a weapon costing more than my house payment is a pretty serious commitment.
And I shoot weekly, about 200 rnds, though all indoor, still searching for an outdoor place in Brevard, I only started looking last month or so when I was able to re-purchase a firearm after a long hiatus of being broke then unemployed.
Jess
I usually shoot one IDPA match and one USPSA match every month, in addition to the random square range practice with pistols and long guns...I don't think I'd be exaggerating if I said I shoot a handgun better than 80-90% of the people who carry one for a living. Will that be good enough when the SHTF? I'd like to think so, but in all honesty I don't really know and I hope I never have to find out.
There are some very cogent repsonses to the original question. Cleary, round count is not the importnt issue - placement and improving technique is. The idea was to encourage exploring club membership and training. The annual cost to join most clubs here in Florida is the same as it would be to go to a public range once a month. If you volunteer for range safety officer time, you can earn enough credits to pay for your annual membership! Why the "arm chair" and other terse words - simply a way to get us thinking about training and improve involvement with other shooters. Most public ranges allow you to only shoot one round a second, no double taps, etc. Frankly, some of the rules are hazardous to your future health!
There is more focus on the web sites on equipment than there is on effective ways to train. If you carry concealed/open, legally, do you have an obligation to have some proficiency level?
There is more focus on the web sites on equipment than there is on effective ways to train. If you carry concealed/open, legally, do you have an obligation to have some proficiency level?
Through? Practice? Consider? Real? If your shooting skills match your skill sets in spelling, grammar, punctuation, or composition, you have no business in a throw down. Tell you what, I'll invest into a trip to say, Thunder Ranch, Gun Site, Cumberland Tactics, when you commit to reading a book. No one here claims to know everything, want to start over?
"Cut the crap-how many rounds do u shoot?"
Cut the crap? No one is throwing down any crap. Just trying to educate themselves.
OUCH! D**n, need to add you to the TampaSsgt list.
Must have had a tough start today. Usually you are the poster child for correctness.
Note to self, stay on Buckley's good side.:rolf
Guys, this was meant to get someone to ask what I believe is a very obvious question. There are hundreds of thousands of permit carrying CCW holders. Our gun clubs should be over run with members. Club membership is not that expensive; many clubs offer vounteer time in lieu of fees! Public range rules (albeit while not intentionally creating bad habits) unfortunately create poor habits.
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