Chemical Agents
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I've seen foam, but I'm not familiar with chemical sprays in gel form. I suppose that makes sense as far as being unaffected by wind...you wouldn't have a bazillion tiny airborne droplets to be blown back on you.
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If i remember my FloridaFirearmsLaw book right, you can carry pepper spray WITHOUT a CCL, Right?
You can also carry a Taser without a CCL too, but it would have to be open carried, ie: clipped on a purse strap, Right??????
Do they make a taser that is small enough to be carried in your pocket like a BUG?
You can also carry a Taser without a CCL too, but it would have to be open carried, ie: clipped on a purse strap, Right??????
Do they make a taser that is small enough to be carried in your pocket like a BUG?
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I don't recall what Jon says about it, but yes, you can carry open without a CCW providing it has not more than 2 ounces of active chemical. Same with a Taser, even the kind that shoots darts is fine. I'm not familiar with their product line, but I'm sure they have one for the pocket.
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783 Posts
While I would like to see answers to your question, I'd also like to know why you're not happy with it.
My wife carries one everywhere, and I have one at home. In my CWFL class, it seemed pretty good.
Did it not work for you?
BobL
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The way the belt clip is designed it pushes the device up until it falls off. Must have fallen off my belt five times before I was forced to keep it in a pocket. The second fall removed the safety. I've not shot it yet. They gave it to me to review, and I looked at one in my local store where it retails for $45.00. An expensive test.
Did they shoot one in your class? I'd love to try an inert one to see if it performs as they say.
Did they shoot one in your class? I'd love to try an inert one to see if it performs as they say.
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I have found an unleaded gas pump nozzle to be an extremely effective 'chemical weapon'...not too portable though. 
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Impressive. When I was sprayed I knew it right away. I'm going to take another look at the gel. I see one is dispensed by pen.
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I think a taser would be nice to use as a BUG. Just for when deadly force is not really warranted, as in the scenario being discussed in another thread (you see a crime taking place). It would be rather nice to just walk up, taser the dude doing the beating. That way nobody dies but the beating stops.
A lot of times you would just risk a beating, but not death, with a taser, it doesn't matter, if you are threatened, taser them, non-lethal force would be more accepted.
A lot of times you would just risk a beating, but not death, with a taser, it doesn't matter, if you are threatened, taser them, non-lethal force would be more accepted.
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Dep sheriff I'm working with gets a new taser free for work from TASER International, Inc. located at 17800 N. 85th St., Scottsdale, AZ 85255-6311 for volunteering to take a hit and see how far he can walk/struggle to ring a bell. He's been able to get 20 feet and ring the bell every year for the free taser for the last 4 years.
Just recently an altercation was related to me by a very good LEO friend who I shoot with on the local PD who was recovering from injuries sustained at the hands of a BG who he tased. The guy pulled the prongs out of his chest, and rushed the officer before he could reload the taser or pull his duty weapon [ glock 17 ].
Jumped upon by this now enraged male, he was taken to the ground and took a pounding for a few minutes until he could affect his escape from the guy and stand up. The guy rushed him again and took him back to the ground a second time when a second car arrived and took the guy off him where he was then cuffed and stuffed.
He's still recovering from injuries sustained and called me to inform he's now ready for some of the WW2 H2H combatives I've shown him he could use. Once he fully recovers, we'll get together for some one on one in his back yard. He's been offered the training in the past but never seemed to have the time [ when in reality, it just wasn't enough of a priority ]. He told me hell or high water, he wants the skills now, as he is not about to use the crap PC H2h they teach him any longer.
Tasers, they work sometimes, maybe even most of the time, and sometimes they just P people off and you take a harder beating than you would have gotten otherwise. Like non lethal pepper spray works most of the time, I won't rely on it to work when I need it.
If I'm going to shoot somebody, it's going to be with HP's not electricity. :thumsup
Brownie
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Interesting point of view. I was LEO before the tasers came to be issued. I did however go through the pepper spraying. I had always heard the tasers were 100 % effective, but now I have a different opinion. Thanks. :thumsup
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That was also my situation, I wasn't issued a taser. From talking to a few LEO I shoot with presently, most like them and they do work to control people out of control most of the time. They also know that in some circumstances it's not going to be an effective means to control, mainly with people hyped up on drugs [ like the guy my buddy hit with one who just looked at him and pulled the wires out enraged ].
I don't think I'd consider using one as a non-LEO in the private sector myself.
Brownie
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I'll bet you would if somebody let you zap them for say, oh, fifty bucks? :rolf
My experience with tazers, as well as pepper spray/ MACE, is that when they work they work well. When they fail, they fail spectacularly. And, they are a close range weapon, especially the pepper spray. They are better than nothing, but if you use one, the next words out of your mouth are "feet don't fail me now." They do give you another option in situations where you can't carry a firearm.
By the way, most civilian tazers have a 30 second discharge time built in, where as a law enforcement tazer has an operator controlled discharge time. The civilian tazers were designed that way so that the person using the tazer can shoot the attacker, drop the unit and run away while the BG is still getting zapped.
By the way, most civilian tazers have a 30 second discharge time built in, where as a law enforcement tazer has an operator controlled discharge time. The civilian tazers were designed that way so that the person using the tazer can shoot the attacker, drop the unit and run away while the BG is still getting zapped.
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:rolf perhaps I would at that DE
Something similarly related to that is the time I was bouncing at night [ weekends ] for a large Marina just south of Boston that had an outside bar, but it was with a stun gun.
This was back in 85 and they hadn't really hit the market yet on the east coast. I'd received it from another member of the protection team I worked with out at the Flynt mansion in Bel Air, Ca as a gift after I related the below situations on the weekends.
We'd stay open till 2am, and most every Friday or Sat. night about 1am we'd see a pig pile of a fight, people jumping into the fray until there'd be 7-10 people on each other. I carried the stun gun [ it was only 30,000 volts back then ] in my back pocket where no one could see it.
I'd used it a few times on the pig piles by zapping the one on top and rolling him off for other bouncers to clear, and repeat and rinse until the pig pile was diminished and we could get to the two initiators at the bottom of the pile
This little skinny bar-back who thought he was a tough nut saw it one time while I was using it and asked me what to hell it was I had. I showed him the unit, turned it on, letting the spark arc and buzz, He said he wanted me to use it on him, and I told him NO.
He bugged me for a couple of weeks until I relented, telling him "after work when everyone's gone". Comes 3am, bar is closed and cleaned up, everyone is getting ready to head out and he approached me ready to get hit.
He had a light nylon windbreaker on. I told him to stick his arm out and I'd just turn it on and off while touching him and see what he thought. Well, it was as fast as I could squeeze the button and get off it, real quick little zap just to see what he thought.
His eyes bugged out of his head, his arm seized up, his hand looked like it was crippled like you see people with bad cases of arthritis in that instant. He pulled away and I'll never forget what he said with deep fear in his eyes and voice trembling as he backed away-----
"Don't f*****ing touch me with that again" and I did that for free :rolf
Soon after that, management called me in to the office and asked me to not carry it while working
Sold it to the bar-back for $100.00 at the end of the summer season when the outside bar closed. :thumsup
Brownie
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783 Posts
Sorry for the delay....
We did not shoot one in class, but saw a video. They soak a piece of plywood from 10'. It looked very directive and the residue was bright red. The OC soaked in a bit and the presentation looked redder after a little while.
I see several videos on Youtube, but not the one we saw.
BobL
My experience with both electrical and chemical weapons is similar to what a few others on here have reported: When they work, they're great; when they fail, you'd better have a really good backup plan. I have, and do, sometimes carry them as backup, or if I have no other options, but they really shouldn't be depended on as a primary means of defense.
They both have limitations that the user needs to be aware of. With chemicals a big issue is getting it on yourself. As others have said, the range isn't great on these things, and chances are very high that if you use a chemical spray, you're going to get some on yourself. This is particularly true if your target is still relatively mobile and tackles you. Anyone who carries a chemical weapon should expose themselves to it good at least once, so you know what to expect if it happens when you use it for real. One of the best ways to overcome its effects is to know what they are and to be ready for them.
With electrical weapons, be VERY aware of the fact that they do not work like you see on TV and in the movies. You don't give someone a little jolt and have them fall down semi-conscious for several minutes. They do not cause any lasting effects at all. The moment the current stops flowing, the incapacitation is over. So as Mac45 said, you use it and RUN (or do something else to make/get yourself safe - exactly as you should with a chemical). As he mentioned, the civilian tasers are designed so that you can drop them and run while they are still delivering a jolt, specifically because once the current stops, the guy will be capable of coming after you immediately.
They both have limitations that the user needs to be aware of. With chemicals a big issue is getting it on yourself. As others have said, the range isn't great on these things, and chances are very high that if you use a chemical spray, you're going to get some on yourself. This is particularly true if your target is still relatively mobile and tackles you. Anyone who carries a chemical weapon should expose themselves to it good at least once, so you know what to expect if it happens when you use it for real. One of the best ways to overcome its effects is to know what they are and to be ready for them.
With electrical weapons, be VERY aware of the fact that they do not work like you see on TV and in the movies. You don't give someone a little jolt and have them fall down semi-conscious for several minutes. They do not cause any lasting effects at all. The moment the current stops flowing, the incapacitation is over. So as Mac45 said, you use it and RUN (or do something else to make/get yourself safe - exactly as you should with a chemical). As he mentioned, the civilian tasers are designed so that you can drop them and run while they are still delivering a jolt, specifically because once the current stops, the guy will be capable of coming after you immediately.
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