[Steve48]

Today I had occasion to visit my County Commissioner in his office in the Orange County Administration Building in downtown Orlando. Naturally, I wondered about carrying there. Government offices are not supposed to be off limits, but government meetings are. Since the offices and meeting rooms are in the same building, I wondered about the legalities, and decided to go unarmed.

It turned out that they have a metal detector and scanner system just like they have at airports at the entrance to the building, except this was worse. I completely emptied my pockets and the machine was still unhappy. A manual scan beeped on everything but my fingernails. They took away my 2 inch pocket knife (but returned it when I left). I don't know if this setup is legal, and neither did my commissioner when I complained about it, but that's the way it is.

 

[patrickhenry1776]

Great question. I too often must visit the county adminstration building and wonder how this worked. Regarding the metal detector that is just plain crazy. If a concealed weapon is permited by state law would they not have to let you through.

I await the answers.

 

[fridaddy]

I just found out last night that we have the same problem in the Jax city hall. I never go there so I did not know. Unfortunately I've got too much else going on right now to deal with it, but maybe when there is let up.

The law is pretty clear, no carry into the meeting of a governing body. There is nothing about no carry into a building where a governing body happens to meet once a week.

 

[deadeyedick]

I think you will have a tough sell claiming that a municipal office building is not off limits to CCW; be that as it may, it is also private property and they can set whatever rules they want regarding carrying weapons. The difference is, with metal detectors they have the means to actually enforce their rules. Any retail establishment could legally do the same thing and similarly deny admittance to armed individuals if they so chose.

 

[patrickhenry1776]

I think you will have a tough sell claiming that a municipal office building is not off limits to CCW; be that as it may, it is also private property and they can set whatever rules they want regarding carrying weapons. The difference is, with metal detectors they have the means to actually enforce their rules. Any retail establishment could legally do the same thing and similarly deny admittance to armed individuals if they so chose.

It is not private property. It is government property. That is the whole point of the county and city park thread.

 

[new to south fl]

Today I had occasion to visit my County Commissioner in his office in the Orange County Administration Building in downtown Orlando. Naturally, I wondered about carrying there. Government offices are not supposed to be off limits, but government meetings are. Since the offices and meeting rooms are in the same building, I wondered about the legalities, and decided to go unarmed.

It turned out that they have a metal detector and scanner system just like they have at airports at the entrance to the building, except this was worse. I completely emptied my pockets and the machine was still unhappy. A manual scan beeped on everything but my fingernails. They took away my 2 inch pocket knife (but returned it when I left). I don't know if this setup is legal, and neither did my commissioner when I complained about it, but that's the way it is.

"(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083."

Seems to me if you don't carry into an actual meeting you should be fine. The only problem here is if you run into an ignorant or obtuse LEO.

 

[deadeyedick]

It is not private property. It is government property. That is the whole point of the county and city park thread.

So is a courthouse, a jail, and a police station...all places where you can't carry. Government property is not necessarily public property.

 

[new to south fl]

So is a courthouse, a jail, and a police station...all places where you can't carry. Government property is not necessarily public property.

You can carry anywhere with your permit unless the law explicitly forbids it. In general, actions or items are only illegal or prohibited if the law states they are illegal or prohibited. 790 very clearly defines where and when you can and cant carry with a permit.

 

[capngeo]

IF there is a courtroom, then it is a COURTHOUSE

 

[new to south fl]

IF there is a courtroom, then it is a COURTHOUSE

Not sure about that; 790 differentiates between a courtroom and a courthouse. I am not convinced that just because a building has a courtroom it is a courthouse. Kind of like- all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares.

 

[brboyer]

So is a courthouse, a jail, and a police station...all places where you can't carry. Government property is not necessarily public property.

Because those locations are specifically no-carry zones per the statute.

 

[TellyDSP]

I've always thought of this when I go to City Hall in downtown Orlando. I'd love to understand the system, but for now I disarm, pocket knife and all.

 

[deadeyedick]

A government building with airport-type security screening is not going to let you in with a firearm by virtue of your CWFL. You can piss and moan all you want, all the way up to the Governor's office if you like, but it ain't gonna happen. Unless you intend to launch an expensive (and probably unsuccessful) campaign of lawsuits and/or legislative lobbying to get your way, complaining about it is a waste of time.

 

[new to south fl]

A government building with airport-type security screening is not going to let you in with a firearm by virtue of your CWFL. You can piss and moan all you want, all the way up to the Governor's office if you like, but it ain't gonna happen. Unless you intend to launch an expensive (and probably unsuccessful) campaign of lawsuits and/or legislative lobbying to get your way, complaining about it is a waste of time.

What makes you say that? Has anyone ever tried? Like I've asked before here on this forum, has anyone ever heard of someone arrested for disobeying one of these local ordinances and then actually being prosecuted? There does not seem to be any grey area here. Just because they install a metal detector doesn't make it anymore illegal or forbidden. If they deny you access because you have a legal firearm they are probably violating your civil rights, and just because they chose to do it with a fancy metal detector doesn't support the conclusion that fighting them will be some overwhelming legal task. It's the same issue as the city park signs; just because they printed a sign, it doesn't make it legitimate.

 

[deadeyedick]

What makes you say that? Has anyone ever tried? Like I've asked before here on this forum, has anyone ever heard of someone arrested for disobeying one of these local ordinances and then actually being prosecuted? There does not seem to be any grey area here. Just because they install a metal detector doesn't make it anymore illegal or forbidden. If they deny you access because you have a legal firearm they are probably violating your civil rights, and just because they chose to do it with a fancy metal detector doesn't support the conclusion that fighting them will be some overwhelming legal task. It's the same issue as the city park signs; just because they printed a sign, it doesn't make it legitimate.

Hey, go for it if you like. I'll chip in $10 for your legal defense fund.

 

[new to south fl]

Hey, go for it if you like. I'll chip in $10 for your legal defense fund.

You miss my point. For something like this, we don't need to make test case out of ourselves; there is no grey area here. This is something, I believe, that can be challenged via letters, like with the signs in parks, and appeals to FL State to enforce 790. This is not like walking around without a permit and claiming it is your 2nd Am Right. FL 790 very clearly states without any ambiguity when and where you can and cannot carry in all of FL. There is no need for anyone to martyr of himself in this case. In my humble and new to FL opinion, all this is is the same thing as the signs on the beach in front of my condo prohibiting firearms, but with a fancy machine to catch you if you are not listening. Bottom line, has anyone ever even written a county official challenging this practice just like in the case of the signs in the parks?

 

[patrickhenry1776]

You miss my point. For something like this, we don't need to make test case out of ourselves; there is no grey area here. This is something, I believe, that can be challenged via letters, like with the signs in parks, and appeals to FL State to enforce 790. This is not like walking around without a permit and claiming it is your 2nd Am Right. FL 790 very clearly states without any ambiguity when and where you can and cannot carry in all of FL. There is no need for anyone to martyr of himself in this case. In my humble and new to FL opinion, all this is is the same thing as the signs on the beach in front of my condo prohibiting firearms, but with a fancy machine to catch you if you are not listening. Bottom line, has anyone ever even written a county official challenging this practice just like in the case of the signs in the parks?

Thats the point. If only the meetings are actually off limits for concelaed carry why can this not be approached in the same manner as the illegal signs in the parks.

 

[Buckley]

I just found out last night that we have the same problem in the Jax city hall. I never go there so I did not know. Unfortunately I've got too much else going on right now to deal with it, but maybe when there is let up.

The law is pretty clear, no carry into the meeting of a governing body. There is nothing about no carry into a building where a governing body happens to meet once a week.

Mind if i stick my nose in there?

 

[TellyDSP]

We also could be debating for no reason. The metal detectors could be there to turn away people with malicious intent. Perhaps if you actually went through, legally carrying, you wouldnt be stopped or detained. Along those lines, I dont recall seeing a clearly marked "no weapons" sign posted downtown. It's just a matter of whether anyone wants to be the guinea pig. opcorn

 

[patrickhenry1776]

Mind if i stick my nose in there?

Please do. This is like the polling place thing. My library is a polling place on election day. Does that make it a polling place all year long?